MudEye

Sorry if I didn't hit the right forum here.
I have 3 newer cars,all with radiator plugs or release valves on the very bottom.
My 67 Cutlass however,I cannot find this plug.
I read somewhere(I think)that the plugs are on the block above the oil pan.
But I haven't lifted up the car to look.
I did however attempt taking off a panel beneath the radiator on the bottom which I thought was just a protective cover(long rectangular metal plate with 4 bolts).Then I noticed that the radiator was attached to it! LOL! Never seen that before.
Thanks for any imput, as I could get no info on youtube or the web.

tecar442

The radiator has a petcock that drains it. The radiator is mounted on two rubber insulators. Through time they've probably stuck tight to the radiator.

Allan R

Facing the car, the petcock is on the right side, bottom, will drain toward the engine. Should be plenty of space to access it. If it's all corroded, you can get a replacement petcock from local auto stores pretty cheap. Same principle as undoing bolts, lefty loosey righty tighty. You may need a pair of channel lock pliers to hold it and open it if it has not been opened in awhile.

MudEye

There was a plastic guard I removed attached to a metal plate.
There is a metal plate underneath the Radiator a little over 36-38" long.and about 5-6" wide.There are 4 bolts holding this plate on(2 on each far end)
Is this plate supposed to be removed before I can see the petcock? Because I can't see anything with this plate in the way.And as I mentioned earlier,I removed the bolts but the radiator was starting to loosen up as we'll.Is this plate permanently attached to the radiator that you know of?
Thanks again.

2blu442

You shouldn't have to remove the bottom plate. I've got a 1967 and here's some pictures of the petcock. Note the relationship to the steering box and battery tray in the photos. This car doesn't have a plastic radiator shroud, but you should still be able to reach down from above, between the engine and the radiator to reach this. Let me know if you have any questions about the photos. John

P1010025-1.jpg

P1010024-1.jpg

P1010026-2.jpg

P1010027-1.jpg

MDchanic

Here's a diagram of a 1970 nose from the parts manual. The '67 is essentially the same.

The drain **** is #49 in View A.



I'm not sure what part you're talking about under the radiator - your description doesn't ring a bell - perhaps if you posted a photo, we could help more.

- Eric

edit: Whoops! John beat me to it!

Allan R

Mudeye,
A plastic guard? Do you mean a fan shroud? Used to funnel air to the engine? The metal plate I think you're describing is likely the rad support lower cross member? I don't think you should have to touch it to empty the rad. It just isn't logical. I know your car is 67, and mine is 72 but the principle of mounting a rad can't have changed all that much over 5 years. The petcock should be in plain sight and should be accessible to drain the rad without taking anything apart. The rad shouldn't be bolted in; it should sit in a lower cradle (with rubber isolators. The top isolators should be attached to the rad top plate. When you bolt down the rad top plate that holds the rad in place. Then you hook up your hoses and lines.
Here is a link to the CSM for your car's cooling system. I wouldn't go as far as they would re: knocking out drain plugs for a system flush. http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/membe...tion_13-14.pdf
If you need a pic of the rad petcock on my car LMK and I'll snap a shot for you. It might give you some sort of reference. In all honesty it's been sooo many years since I worked on our 67, so I could be wrong about where the petcock is, although I doubt it.

If you really get stuck and can't find a way to empty the rad? disconnect the lower rad hose and be ready for the coolant with a large catch tray. It will drain the block and the rad.

2blu442

Eric, Allen, it looks like we were all replying at the same time!

The 1966-67 core support bottom will unbolt, that's probably the four bolts you were looking at from underneath.

John

MudEye

Well guys that info is exactly what I needed.2blu-Those photo's did the trick.It wasn't as complicated as I made it out to be.Nothing like a real life photo.
Md thanks for the diagram.You guys are guru's.
And Alan,you mentioned that the lower rad hose drains both Rad and Block.Is this the suggestive method? Because I do need to flush everything.Also,at the risk of sounding ignorant as I usually do,This car has a new heater core in the trunk,There are no hoses going to the firewall area where it looks as if there should be,Is the coolant circulating through both rad and block with the absence of the heater core? I say this because I see clean rad fluid on top(under cap) But wonder about the fluid inside block(has been sitting in garage for 10 years.

2blu442

It sounds like the heater core was leaking so the previous owner bypassed it. There should be two hoses going to the firewall on the passengerside. Does your car have AC or not? I can get some pictures for you but the firewall looks different between the AC and non-AC cars. John

MudEye

No A.C. here
I didn't even know they had A.C. in 67.I guess they did.But did they have A.C. on convertibles? I have no idea.
But does the coolant circulate throughout the rad and block without the heater core? Thanks Dudes

Allan R

Short answer: Yes.
However it means you won't have any heating in the car. Better to have it hooked up right.

re: draining everything? Not necessary to pull the lower rad hose to do that. When you drain the coolant from the rad, it will also drain the upper block. If you need to flush the rad? Just get a flush kit (usually has a T you splice into the heater hose) and do it that way.

Another reason I would want the heater hooked up? It gives you more coolant to help disperse the heat from the engine.

Run to Rund

The block will have a 1/4 NPT plug with hex head on each side toward the front, just above the oil pan. There is a second boss between the second and third engine mount bosses that was used on the big cars because their mount went between the first and second bosses.

MudEye

That was my original suspicion.I've been told and experienced that that by turning the heater on,the water(sorry I meant coolant) rushes into the engine block,and thus thus cools the the Engine.This 67 does not run hot ,even after running for an hour(idling not driving)While the Heater Core is not hooked up it still does not get hot according to the dash gauge.Very low Temp. No boiling over,etc.
Was there a boil over plastic container like the modern ones?

Allan R

Well MudEye, not sure where to start here

1. Your car has a cast iron block - not aluminum. So it's going to generate and retain heat. It needs a cooling system to keep the engine from overheating. Part of the cooling system is the thermostat. In your case if the car is not heating up, you could have a low temp (160°) t stat in it. I would check that for starters. I usually run at least 195° in my car. The other thing you might want to check? How accurate are the gauge and sender you've got in the car?

2. Water rushes to the engine block when you turn on the heater??? Whoever told you that?? The heater is actually part of the cooling system and coolant is always flowing through it. There is 'no rush' of anything. The coolant moves at the speed the water pump is turning to circulate coolant throughout the system. Coolant has to reach the right temp in order to 'open' the thermostat. When the thermost opens, that's when the engine circulates coolant throughout the system. If the T stat doesn't open and temp builds, the rad cap will blow off (it's only going to hold about 14 lbs pressure) or one of the hoses will blow.

3. Water. Lets change that word right now. You don't use water - you use ethylene glycol (antifreeze) or the new DEXCOOL in specified concentrations. It has a higher boiling point, and doesn't freeze solid in the winter like water does. That's important.

4. If your car WAS running hot, turning on the heater in your car to HOT and running the fan will help cool the engine slightly. Think of the heater core as a small radiator. It has hot water running through it all the time though. When you turn on the heat/cool cycles with the dash control all you're doing is blending outside air to flow through the vanes of the core and heat the car. When you're in cool mode, the air flap simply is diverted to block off air flow through the core. Similarly if your radiator was going full bore and you opened a window right over it, it would blend the air. If you diverted the air coming off the radiator, you would only notice cold air coming in the room. A crude but simple analogy. Rembmer, the core is always as hot as the engine coolant.

5. What you're describing is a radiator overflow reservoir. Did the 67 have one? No. If you look at the rad cap, just below the lip of the cap you will see a drain nipple where a hose is attached. The hose runs down the side of the rad (it's usually held in place by 2 clips brazed to the side of the tank). Overflow from the rad just drops onto the ground. If you've been driving really hard or in hot weather, it's a good idea to check the coolant level periodically to make sure it's proper. If you start to notice the temp getting too hot, consider installing a fan shroud to help direct cool air over the engine. Also think about installing a fan clutch for your fan - it will improve performance and cooling.

MDchanic

Except that A/C cars in the '60s and '70s years (and, I believe, a few non-A/C full-size cars, though I'm not certain of the years) have a vacuum-operated hot water valve, usually screwed into the intake manifold at the right rear of the engine, which completely cuts off water flow through the heater core when the "Temp" control is pushed all the way over to "Cold," or the "Max A/C" setting is engaged.

- Eric

Allan R

Yes, absolutely right. Only reason I stated what I did was I noted this particular car does not have AC. Not being an AC guy myself, I think it just makes sense that the refrigerated air didn't have to compete with anything from the heater core; hence the coolant valve. thx Eric

MDchanic

I just didn't want to confuse future people who come upon this thread after a search...

- Eric

MudEye

NPT plug? Is that like a magnetic bolt plug or something?
And also ,does that mean that there "are" drain plugs underneath(330 small block) I just thought that by draining from under the block that I could drain out "all" the coolant from top to bottom(block,rad)more thoroughly then just using the Rad valve which someone mentioned that it drains Rad and top of block) that I could eliminate all the coolant I could(into bucket) before flushing with hose.I'm just very concerned about coolant evaporation on my blacktop when I do flush(neighbors dogs come around here)
Also if I may,If there are NPT plugs,Is this the "proper" way that they drained and flushed blocks back when? If not then what was the purpose of these plugs? And thank you for enlightening me on these subjects.It's much appreciated.
Thank YA!

MDchanic

NPT = National Pipe Thread

Yes, there should be one plug on each side.

More importantly, you've got a good shot at the rusty sludge that can form at the bottom of the block.

A wash of antifreeze down your driveway is completely harmless. Let's not go there.

What's "proper?"
Using the plugs to flush out the engine was one of many options.
Most were never flushed once.
Many others had the Prestone adapters placed in the heater hoses and were flushed that way a few times.
I wouldn't worry about it, but if you want to be sure to get the most effective flush possible, you should remove them. Just don't let whatever you find in there scare you .

- Eric

Allan R

Eric,
Where are there NPT plugs on a 67 330? It would have to be above the pan gasket for sure, but I've never looked closely. I thought at first maybe you were referring to the SS frost plugs. Also, is this the same as for 72 350's? C'mon back?

MudEye

HE HE! LOL! Thanks!

Allan R

In concentrated form it's deadly and doesn't evaporate worth *****. But washed down it shouldn't be a problem. Best thing to do is have a catch basin under your work, then clean up as much as possible, flush with lots of water as if you were treating yourself to a chemical injury at work. Some states/provinces will track down and prosecute you if you deliberately pollute the ecosystem by dumping automotive products. That's considered a 'crime'. But if you don't maintain your vehicle and it drips antifreeze, oil, trans fluid etc on the road? That's just acceptable? Where do they think it ends up when it rains?

Agreed.
Dogs come by and pee on my tires all the time. A smart dog however can be trained to pee on your neighbors car instead . What really does annoy me though is finding #2 all over the place from the neighborhood dogs.

MudEye

LOL! (training dogs to **** on neighbors car)I struggled just trying to reply! I'm still crying with laughter! I Know some of you guys are Mechanics(Or just plain smart).And I'm learning.Thank You

2blu442

Here's some pictures of the heater hoses. Let us know if anything isn't clear.
John

P1010037-1.jpg

P1010032.jpg

P1010033.jpg

P1010034.jpg

P1010038-1.jpg

MDchanic

Here are two photos, one of a '67 425, one of a '76 350:





As seen here, the LD50 in mammals is about 20g / kg, which is to say that if you weigh 220 (100kg), it would take about 4kg (about 9 pounds) of the PURE, CONCENTRATED propylene glycol to have a 50% chance of killing you.
That'd be over 18 pounds of diluted antifreeze (or 4½ gallons).

Therefore, if anyone wants to die from it, they'd better start drinking up!

Agreed. And who'd just leave it on their driveway, anyway?

Well...

... And if you live in one, you should move.

Been trying to train mine to do this for years.
The neighbor seems to have trained hers to do it just fine .

- Eric

Allan R

Eric, the pics didn't come through, try agan?
While you're doing that, I'm just downing my second jug of afni treeze. hic kneed sumore ise.... I didn't look up the LD50 on E.G. Nice catch!

MDchanic

I dunno, I'm looking at them on my end.

Try again - you've probably got a bad connection.

By the way, it goes down better with tonic and lime !

- Eric

Allan R

Nope, just red X's. Not a bad connection. Sure you're not into the EG too?

2blu442

Allen, I can see the pictures just fine.

OH MAN!!! You shouldn't have made that crack about the guys at the border in the other thread! They be watching you now... and may not let you see everything anymore

Allan R

John, can you upload them as thumbnails so I can see them? You're probably right, the border internet Police have screened them on me . I don't get why you can see them and I can't....

2blu442

... And if you live in one, you should move

Eric, about 15 years ago I was going to school in Corvallis Oregon. (Yeah, it took me a long time to figure out I needed more school for my career of choice) But back then I had a leaking intake gasket. I drained the radiator best I could, but when I pulled the intake some antifreeze spilled out and ran down the driveway. Half an hour later the fire department pulled up and wanted to know what I was doing. I got myself in deep do do over that Only by being passive and profusely saying I was sorry and won't do it again was I able to get off without paying a fine. In some places big brother is watching very very close. John

2blu442

Allen, they look like jpg photos and I don't know how to copy them. But they're really good photos, the 425 shows the single plug near the motor mount and the 350 motor is a bare block with the two plugs in it. Man... but you gotta see what's in the background. I don't know where Eric got the pic's but that car behind the 350 motor looks just like yours!

Allan R

Now I'm really really curious. Eric, I'm sending you my home email via PM. Can you send the pics to me that way? thx

MudEye

Allan did you ever get those pictures? Mine was just little boxes too.
Thanks

MDchanic

Wow - they don't come up on my work computer either (WinDOS).
I'll have to look into this - they're just regular JPEGs.

- Eric

Allan R

Yes I did. Eric was kind enough to send them to me at my home email. Here's what they look like:




Told ya!! BTW you have email.

MDchanic

Okay, I reposted the photos - could someone let me know whether they're visible in my post now?

Thanks!

- Eric

Allan R

Clear as a bell. I took the ones you sent me and saved them to my HD. Then I uploaded them to C.O. probably the same as what you did? I noticed on the original post there were no thumbnails, so I suspect the pics lost their link to the host server or computer if they were just copied/pasted. That's my theory.

MDchanic

No way José. They came up fine on my computer (10.6.8, Chrome) and on a lot of others, just not your computer or my work computer (XP, Chrome), so they were living on the server just fine.

The initial photos I posted, which you couldn't see, were saved as JPEG files from PhotoShop.
The second pair, which you could see, were the same pictures opened in Preview (Mac standard universal viewer), then simply re-saved,
so, clearly, this was an issue with the initial JPEG output being incomprehensible to the OS or the browser because of some small change in coding.

Bloody weird.

- Eric