Hopefully everyone got back home safe and sound. A great time was had by all.

I was on the judging team that did the Junior 70-72 Performance Class. I was assigned the undercarriages. Our team captain instructed us to write our notes on paper for each car we were to assess (18 registered to the class with two no shows), and then we would fill out the judging form in a team setting. Overall the system worked well.

My overall thoughts/observations on what I saw - keeping in mind I was following the one knee rule (got up and down 64 times) and using the standard of how the vehicle would have appeared new on the showroom floor for correctness/authenticity:

Exhaust Systems - Easily the most varied in condition and accuracy of all the items I looked at. Many welded systems with incorrect muffler lengths, clamps not used at all or facing the wrong direction, incorrect hangers or hardware, some trumpets sticking way too far out. My suggestion to all is to get a Gardner or Waldron/ILT system and install it as directed. This is a very visible component of the undercarriage, and a safety item. If you decide to use a welded system, install clamps over the welds in the righ5 location facing the righ5 direction to minimize deductions.

Front Wheel Well Hardware - I only saw one car have all the correct installed attaching hardware of the well to the fender and frame. Man6 cars were missing the large washers, or missing bolts altogether. The well adds a lot of rigidity to the front end reducing squeaks and rattles if all the hardware is present.

Gas Caps, LP/Filler Door Frame - I only saw two 70’s have the correct gas cap. Some frames were missing one or more bumpers, the frame painted black, etc…

Bumper Hardware - Saw some incorrect solid (not capped) bumper bolts, but a lot of incorrect bumper bracket hardware. All of it except except the “thin” nuts should be phosphate (dark gray) colored

Gas Tanks - They should be a natural steel color. Saw many painted black or a dull gray color. Also, some stretched out spaghetti looking gas tank straps.

Frame rails - Spray bombed black without any prep of the surface. Sand them smooth before painting - it will make a much improved first impression.

Front Suspension/Steering - some could have benefitted from a good general cleaning. Front backing plates especially.

 

You can't see enough to judge on one knee. Unless it's going on a lift, it shouldn't even be judged. Not every judge can see the same thing. Femur length and ability to bend are major factors.
Oh, and I'm sure the line workers building the cars took great care to make sure all the clamps were facing the same, "correct" direction.... GTFOH
I guess none of you guys have ever heard the term "over-restored"? It sounds exactly like what you're judging.

 

If having cars judged or restoring to factory standards is not your thing then why comment? The fact is, Oldsmobile has prints for every part of the car and how it should be installed. Did the line workers do it to the exact detail on the prints... Not at all in some places and to the perfect detail in other places. All we really have to go by are these prints and pure original cars. Many cars get over restored these days but mostly in the paint areas. If you install every part like the prints show then I don't see it as over restored even though the car may not have come so perfect from the factory. They were building a car in short order, we build cars in 2+ years so we can detail it like intended by the engineers.

What Joe is doing is pointing out to people that do like the judging and this style competition what he seen and how to make their car better. This is a very good thing to look at when it is coming directly from a judge and a very knowledgeable one at that.

This is also why many, including myself, can't be a judge. I could not take it when someone is bent over some detail judged in their eyes wrong. Also why I will never complain if I feel someone judged something on my car wrong.

 

My point was more to the fact that the judges aren't seeing the complete undercarriage. The guy that goes hyper-nutso doing what the judges can't see is getting shorted by the guys that only do what the judges can see on one knee.

 

I've seen the phrase "as it rolled off the showroom floor" or "assembly line" used a lot in reference to OCA judging.
The assembly line is just that. Now, when you involve the assembly books or diagrams and specifications, you cross the line between mass production and handcrafted coach building. It seems as though the rules lean towards coach building, not authentic restoration. Example: a low mile, unmolested by no one other than mother nature, faithful down to the production flaw restoration doesn't stand a chance against the 1000 point over-restored, coach built car.

 

I haven't been involved in Oldsmobile shows, but in Mustang shows, "Concourse Unrestored" applies to those low-mileage unrestored cars... They don't compete against restored cars.

While I've never been a "nut and bolt" resto guy, I can respect those who are.

 

Some one that gets their panties in a wad over losing points at judging because their car is not by the book should get out of the hobby. It is just that, a hobby and if it makes a difference to the appearance of the car, find something else to worry over. Car restoration should be fun not a money grab. Joe's comments are just for your information when having your car judged. He is very sharp on the book restoration guide.

 

I don't know to many people restoring cars that make money on them. Well, The restoration shops do... I know I enjoy building them as much or more than driving them at times.

 

I think pretty much everyone here is well aware of the mass production variations to cars coming off the line. My ‘70 W-30 had a original unused voltage regulator on the firewall when I got it! This is precisely why we should have a standard - the PIM or Assembly Manual so everyone has a standard for authenticity or correctness, or else anything is OK because “it was a Friday in Framingham and John was drunk that afternoon and the normal supplier was out of a part” etc, etc..

 

Make money on a restoration ? never happened to me
Alain
Red W-31

 

I have a question, Joe. I noticed in the pics posted here that one of the cars had mirrors on all 4 sides. I used to display my car like that many years ago. Then the last time I judged (2010?) at the mtg they said to tell people to get rid of all the props. It was a crazy time when people like Thornton were putting cars up on ramps and chrome stands, etc. Inline was removing wheels to show detail, like World of Wheels stuff. What was that car doing with mirrors? Did they change that rule again?

 

For me "over restoring my cars was a big part of the fun. I went to great lengths to make certain, to the beat of my ability to make certain that my car met the standards laid down in the Assembly Manual and from observation of the cars that were done before mine. Eric's and Cospenn's cars were perfect examples of that. Over-restored? I suppose but it was great fun doing it and I would do it that way again if the opportunity came up.

 

Thanks for sharing your observations and thoughts from a judge’s perspective.

I am curious about this statement regarding exhaust systems, though. I’m not following what you were meaning about safety.

 

Much of my undercarriage has a light coating of NOS rust.

 

How about flat on the back instead of one knee?

 

Which is normal for a car that sat on the lot before being sold.

 

The OCA judging instructions specifically call out to NOT deduct for light rust on an OE type exhaust system.

 

[QUOTE=Fun71;1362352]Thanks for sharing your observations and thoughts from a judge’s perspective.


I am curious about this statement regarding exhaust systems, though. I’m not following what you were meaning about safety.[/QUOTE

A damaged leaky exhaust system could potentially fill the car with noxious fumes.

 

The rule still exists at judging time. I think people are still allowed display enhancements during the other days the car is shown.

 

Nice writeup, Joe. Thanks for taking the time to share your observations with us!

 

I see, thanks for your your work there at the Nats. The things you wrote here will help others to improve their cars at future events.

 

how about the car, nos rust there too? LOL

 

OK, that makes sense. I didn’t even think of it as I drive a convertible.

 

[QUOTE=costpenn;1362392]I do try to watch what I eat before a long drive.

 

Interesting thread. This isn't my cup of tea. I am glad the people / judges post what is expected . Those who try to achieve these standards I congratulate you.

 

Having worked in a GM plan building B-O-P cars in 1972, I can say that the variability was large.

At that time, it was all done by people, and they had 60 seconds to get the jobs done.

The area that had the most variability was the painting process. Some cars got a lot of paint, others less.

And, they was always deviations from prints depending on the situation.

The line did not stop, 60 cars per hour for 2 shifts.

 

Did you guys have any sort of fixed or temp stop system where the line would stop as needed at the end of the pitch? My company's lines will stop at the end of the pitch if something hasn't been completed. There's also a temp stop for an immediate stop for a safety or imminent destruction issue. So, we'll end up with a percentage of up time for the line, somewhere in the 90s percent is the target. We've had miracle Fridays where it just goes perfectly all day, probably because people want to go home with no OT on Friday.

 

I have never worked in a vehicle assembly plant, so I have no clue how the handle line stop problems.

The transmission assembly plant I work in rarely stops. If there is a minor production problem, there is a button the operator pushes to direct that particular unit to a repair bay. If it’s a machine problem that can’t be fixed fairly quickly, they might stop the line and have the workers tear down units with scrap cases, sent to other lines, things like that. Very rarely will you see people sitting around.

One of the few times I can recall being sent home was probably 10 years ago. There was a new operator running a portion of the line that machined the transmission cases. I don’t know all the details, from what I understand they guy reset a fault snd started the line again. He did this a couple times, it wrecked the machine with the fault, snd then several machines after that wrecked because the previous operation wasn’t completed.

it took the maintenance snd tool engineers a few days to repair the damage and bring the machines back into tolerance. In the meantime, the assembly Dept built pumps, clutch assemblies, valve bodies etc, for service (parts that go to the dealerships for repairs in the field) that continued until they had no more room in the shipping Dept. Only then did they give us the option to go home, without pay. If you wanted to stay and work, you got loaned out to other Dept, cleaned machines, whatever they needed you to do.

In my experience, they don’t shut off those lines unless it’s a major catastrophe. The UAW has a bad reputation, and maybe in the past it was deserved. You don’t see people napping or doing crossword puzzles today!!

 

This discussion reminded me of the movie "Gung Ho"....

Particularly this scene....think about when our cars were built...

 

Really well detailed write-up, Joe.

 

Many years ago, my team finished kitting the Mississippi plant and the manager wanted to do a team building activity. I had taken everyone to a shooting range previously, but he wanted an on the books activity. So, I suggested "pizza and watch Gung Ho." So we did, and the funny thing was the Japanese guys would crack up before we would because they would hear the funny line in Japanese and laugh, and we would laugh at the English retort that followed.

 

Yeah, our vehicles can rarely get kicked out. Usually we'll stop the line for the shift if a big machine dies or we are out of parts. They offer the Three Choices. Go home, no pay. PTO. Stay and do something for pay, like paint something.

 

I saw that movie Gung Ho, about the only thing I remember, was someone was complaining about the poor work on the assembly line, pointed to something and the worker said, that's for the dealer to worry about.

 

I drove my 70 Cutlass SX to Reno Nats. in 2011 and they found wrinkles on my bucket seats and missed my 8-track which was converted to a CD and never saw it. Got me for a 69 master cyl. and 72 rad. over flow which was Dealer installed not bye me. I was the second owner. Orig. carpet and lighter never used. They put my car in the 442 class where I didn't stand a chance with those 442 W-30. I sold the car because of that show and got out of OCA Judging and I'm a Master Judge. My NORCALOLDS Club gave the Judges a towel to kneel on for under car Judging.
Gerald

 

I have the ‘71 convertible as a replacement for my first car ever, a ‘70 Supreme that I drove through high school, college, and first real job. . Never thought about a points restoration and car shows, just wanted another Cutlass to drive to work and around town. Now 40 years later I’m in a collectible classic car category and I ain’t a collectible car or car show type person, just a gearhead who is still driving the same old car because I like it and I’m a cheap SOB.

 

Once one of my cars win a 1st Junior I retire them from Judging, be it the OCA or AACA, they become show only, I have no interest in taking them up to a Senior level. I drive them, ALL of them, so I know I don't stand a chance against the trailered show cars. So why bother. In fact, years back I had a 72 Cutlass S which was completely restored and I turned that car from a show car to a driver. Oh well. I enjoyed the ride.

 

Stupid question: wtf is the difference between Jr and Sr class? ALL the cars (and most of the owners) are seniors.

 

Funny haha.

From the OCA website:

Judging Class Structure

For judging, Oldsmobiles have been organized into classes to facilitate judging. Those classes are organized into three groups - Junior, Senior, and Senior Preservation.

Cars in the Junior Class that have been awarded "Best of Class" with scores of 975 or more or have exceeded 990 points in the Junior Class are moved into the Senior Class.

Cars that have earned "Best of Class" in the Senior Class are moved into Senior Preservation Class.

Senior Preservation Cars are recognized each year they score 900 points or more.

Withing those three basic groups, the cars in the stock classes are organized in model year and model groups that include similar vehicles. Additional classes have been established for Oldsmobiles that are modified, street stock, and racing vehicles.

The judging class structure is used to organize the Oldsmobiles on the showfield and helps ensure that each judging team is comparing comparable vehicles.