Tedd Thompson

Greetings group, at the last regional car show I lost points because my seat belts were showing( displayed), note on my scoring paper said something like not original. Now my car is a 1955 and it for sure never came with seat belts but I was under the impression that seat belts were a add on safety device and no points should be deducted. I don't know, could be a local car show thing that I have confused with the more stringent rules of the of the regionals or nationals shows.I would like to know ,it would be nice to just leave them in the car, may be able to hide them, backs are no problem , fronts not so easy, or I'll just take the points hit and enjoy the show for what it really is, a social meeting of people of the same interest. Anyone know how the rules are applied in this case?....Tedd

Olds Dad

Funny - I'm in process of restoring a couple of '55s (not lucky enough to be convertibles) but I'm also putting in seatbelts - including shoulders in the back - there will be no way to hide but I guess with you in the "enjoy the show for what it really is"...the thought of me (or my kids) meeting that steel dashboard bejeweled with sold steel chrome radio ***** and shifter selectors at 40 mph isn't worth a few point deductions in MHO - I don't know the actual rules, but I would assume that a Pebble Beach show would be judged differently than a local OCA show

joe_padavano

The rules are completely up to the organization doing the judging and will vary widely. You didn't specify what type of show this was or who did the judging.

OCA rules are as follows:

AACA rules are say this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AACA

15. Seat belts and child restraints will be accepted if neatly installed.

442Harv

That may be a regional thing. I have judged in nor Cal and with So cal car shows. This question has come up in the judging meetings. Most the time it is up to the head judge to say we will, or won't deduct points on old cars for set belts. It is also like radial tires, they are a safety item, and most car show judging points will not deduct. Not real sure what the Nat Olds club does? You can probably get in contact with them and ask.

bjtstarfire

I think that stuff is overrated BUT the seatbelts are not.

76 Regency

On a related note, do you guys know if changing to halogen headlights is something I'll lose points for? I really can't see not going with halogens since they are so much brighter. Even if it is something that would cost me a few points, I wouldn't sacrifice the safety factor.

joe_padavano

That one you will lose points for. A lot of people use the halogens normally and swap out for their T3s just before a show (same thing with original-style tires and wheels).

76 Regency

Well that just stinks. Is that just for the nationals or even the local chapter shows? If it's just the nationals, I'd consider swapping to the T3's but not smaller shows.

rocketraider

I look at it this way and have successfully argued this point in OCA. GM Guide Lamp Division supplied halogen headlights in both round and rectangular versions, and if it's a factory service part, I will not deduct.

It helps to have tons of Dealer Tech Bulletins/Service Guilds/recall and product development campaign literature at your disposal.

A DTB made the difference in a 1964 Cutlass taking a hit for incorrect cylinder heads at the 1996 OCA Nats. The "expert" said it could not have come with #2 heads. The original owner said the engine was original to the car and had never been apart. A 7C build date and a DTB proved the car owner correct. 'Course then you had a judge stomping around with a wounded ego, but everyone learned something.

Seat belts should NEVER take a deduction, though I'm wary of installing them in a car much older than 1950. You need good anchoring points even then. I would not think of installing them in a 30s-earlier car with wood body structure or floor.

joe_padavano

Again, we have no idea of what judging rules a local show follows, since every one is different. You need to ask the judges of the show in question.

Run to Rund

If you intend to show your car in a Stock, Restored class and have deviations or updates from the way it was produced, you need to get the rules clarified in advance. The Olds club has Street Stock, Modified, and Race Car classes for restorations that aren't stock.

Tedd Thompson

Thanks for the replies
My car is a almost stock 55, I have taken a few liberties in the past and plan on correcting what I can before the nationals . The event that I was charged points for the seat belts was a OCA event,last years Nor Cal regionals and I have no regrets on how it was judged. Wife and I had a great time. learned a lot and felt they were more than fair.Lost points on my belts, radials, chrome rims and of coarse the Betty Boop floor mats. Things that make a show-n -shine car stand out, but not so good at a points show. It still was awarded first in class which surprised my wife and I. My plans are to contact someone in our region and perhaps obtain a rule book to guide my restoration. I will probably only make this years nationals so I plan to give it my best shot on originality after that it's back to Betty Boop and baby moons... Thanks ....Tedd

rocketraider

Tedd- don't waste your time with an OCA Judging Manual. It is the most near useless thing the OCA ever did, and one of the few things I regret voting for as a Zone director. Had I known it would turn out as it did, I would never have voted to spend the money to produce it. The judging video was even worse.

Find an AACA Region or Chapter close by and go thru their judging handbook. You will find much more useful information for judging a stock restored car. Make friends with a 55 owner who has a proven correct car and they will be an invaluable reference.

Run to Rund

Our new Head Judge, Ed Konsmo, is very experienced and knowledgeable. He is aware of the differing opinions regarding radial tires, etc. He has published contact information in JWO so people can ask him about current rules and probable future directions.

joe_padavano

As I quoted above, the OCA judging manual already allows seat belts and safety items without point loss.

Bluevista

Most local shows are participant judging anymore so throw out any judging manuals, correct means nothing, clean and pretty means a lot, right Cutlassgal?
Even the local OCA chapter show decided to go to participant voting last year and it was a farce.
The AACA regional shows are the only ones around here with real judges that sort of know what they're looking at.
5 point deduction for an incorrect wrong headlight bulb, I don't know what they deduct if you have an original and it doesn't work?
They don't let you see the judging forms at the AACA deals.
The head judge for the team told me I scored high when they finished, probably tells everybody that.
I didn't win, the competition set their wallets on my car and crushed it.