jaunty75

1. Because it's a well-known vacation destination. It's not unreasonable to choose it for an event like this because there are other things to do when you want to take break from the cars, and there's things for the other members of the family to do.

2. Because holding the event IN California itself, whether it's in the southern half or the northern half of the state, would be even WORSE as far as distance to be traveled for all the rest of us. In principle, yes, it would be wonderful to have the show in a place like Big Sur or Santa Barbara or San Diego or some beautiful spot like that along the coast. But that puts you about as far from the rest of the membership as you can get and still be in the U.S. You'd get a lot of California members, but probably not a lot of others.

I agree that there are trade-offs. The OCA wrestles with this every year. They need a chapter to host the show. There aren't chapters associated with every big city where it might be a good idea to hold a show. Sometimes, even when there IS a chapter in a good location, it might be a weak chapter or one with not enough members to do all the work. More than half of the OCA chapters have fewer than 30 members. Like almost any other organization consisting of volunteers, only a small subset of the membership of any chapter does most of the work. You can't expect any particular chapter that might be in a good, central location, like the Mid-Ohio or the Illinois Valley, to step up and host the show more often than every decade or decade and a half because of all the work involved. The result is that you end up with what we have now.

rocketraider

OCA internal politics being what they are, I don't see that ever happening. I beat the drum for years for the National Judging Committee to take over everything pertaining to National Meet judging- recruiting and training judges, handling all the scoring and recordkeeping, ordering awards etc to take that workload off the host group. I was told point blank that the entire National Judging Committee would walk if they were saddled with that responsibility. And we're talking having a centralised National Meet planning committee? Great idea in theory, but putting it into practice?

I was show chairman for two Zone shows and one National Meet, and heavily involved in planning/executing several other Zone and National Meets. It's a lot of work and takes up a lot of time. You roll the dice whether your turnout will be good, if weather will cooperate, if the hotel won't get sold out from under you forcing you to renegotiate all your contracts with the new management at last minute, if they don't start construction/expansion on you, if gas prices don't thwart you, if local governments will cooperate with you or promise you the moon and then renege on you.

Columbus is a good example. Great location for something like this and with the Street Rod Nationals and Mopars coming every year, they should know how to work with car groups. And for a while they did. Then the city got some new faces downtown who didn't have a clue about it and started getting heavy-handed on everything. I haven't been to either in years, but I have a couple of good friends who did the Mopar show every year and they both say now they will never go to Columbus again because of the City of Columbus's attitude.

I don't know the answer. An aging OCA base, young people not being exposed to the cars, constant modifications so that no one knows how the cars were originally built and sold, lot of variables to consider.

jaunty75

Are you an OCA member? Are you a chapter member? Have you suggested that your chapter host a Nationals, and have you volunteered to lead the effort? (I'm hoping the answers to all of these are "yes.")

By the way, what is this "deal" you're talking about? When a chapter is formed and accepted into the OCA, there is no stipulation that I am aware of that the chapter host a nationals within any particular time frame, or ever, for that matter.

I've also noticed the slowness in the awarding of the future Nats, and I think it's a combination of several problems. One of them is what you mentioned, the aging of the hobby. Chapters, I think, are more slow to volunteer to host them because the members are getting older and are less inclined to take on all the work, and, because, if they've hosted a show before, they might not be ready yet to take on the burden of doing it again. So the OCA has to do some behind-the-scenes arm-twisting to get a chapter to take on the task.

TK-65

So why have it in Mass. last year, that puts the big California chapters out of it. If California supports the OCA and has a large number of members, shouldnt the state with the biggest population in the US get more than 200 cars to the National event.

jaunty75

rocketraider, good points all. There's lots of things the casual observer isn't aware of that go on behind the scenes in the putting on of any large event.

jaunty75

For the same reason it's out west this year. It moves around. I agree, though, in that if it's too far east, you won't get anyone from the west. Which is why it's probably the best to try to hold it in the middle part of the country most of the time with the occasional one in the far west or far east. Plus, as we've said, we need a chapter to volunteer. The Massachusetts chapter volunteered for 2010. If no other chapter did for that year, where do you think the show is going to be held?

msco123

You and me both, Rob. All I have done is hibernate since June. Never ever remember heat this bad. Nothing but heat indexes over 100 since June and still have August and most of September to look forward to.

66-3X2 442

That's from my post,he was just quoting me. Yes, I'm an OCA member and I'm not a chapter member. The Atlanta-Dixie Olds chapter is the closest and I'm not a member for various reasons. The deal is,no or very few chapters are bidding on hosting the Nats. The OCA can't make a chapter host a Nats,I know that. My point is,if the chapters are not going to bid or host the Nats,who is? Like I said,fewer and fewer chapters are willing to host. With that being said,the OCA can have it where ever they want to but it needs to be in the same place same time every year. I have talked to people who are long time OCA members and x-board members and they all agree with me. Again,this is my opinion and mine alone. I'm finished with this one for good,no sense in further debate as none of us have any say in the matter.

chequenman

[QUOTE=Lady72nRob71;306382]I bet most of who went live in the western half of the US. I am betting the hot boring desolate drive across the desert was the biggest turnoff for many including myself. If anyone had car trouble out there, it would be horrible.
Also I feel the more Olds are located in the NE part of the country anyway...
A drive to Lansing or thereabout I would consider. Across the desert? In summer? No.
I always wonder why all the big shows are scheduled during the absolute hottest times of the year...

I have friends That have driven a Red and White '57 "98" Htp. to Reno almost 3000 miles to get there in this heat and blew apart a freshly rebuilt generator in Wyoming and then they get to witness this turnout. They drove the car without a generator to Reno and got it repaired there for over $600.00. I'm sure that's what I would call a devoted OCA Member!!!

jaunty75

This is not true. If you're a member of the OCA, you have a say in the matter.

You're complaining that the chapters aren't bidding to host the Nats, yet you're not willing to be a chapter member yourself and be one of those bidders or help host a nats. It's hardly fair to sit in your armchair and criticize others for being unwilling to do what you yourself are also not willing to do.

This is no "deal." This is a meaningless use of the word. Your earlier comment ("not holding up their end of the deal") suggested that there was some kind of formal agreement between the chapters and the OCA that requires chapters to host the nationals. Hence, the word "deal" made sense. But there is no such agreement, so there is no "deal" that the chapters are not upholding their end of.

chequenman

X's 2

jaunty75

Oh wonderful. Now we have the blind leading the blind.

66-3X2 442

Look dude,read my last post about this. If you don't want to get on my bad side,leave me out of it. You're more or less calling me out because I don't agree with your position on this subject. Now,go pick on somebody else.

chequenman

That's what I really like, is when YOU get your shorts in a knot. You have to learn when to stop spouting!!

jaunty75

Hey, good side/bad side, I couldn't care less what "side" of you I'm on. I'm just pointing that your arguments are, for the most part, inconsistent.

chequenman

You gotta let him go as he doesn't know when to leave things alone....

jaunty75

Speaking of spouting, what's with you and the bold italics? Can't you stop it from doing that? Nobody else's posts are that way. It's annoying as hell...unless that's your intent.

jaunty75

You two ought to know.

jaunty75

Now that it's Saturday night and they're down to the awards banquet and all, there should be pretty good information about how many cars were actually there. What we REALLY need here is for someone at the show to post a reasonably accurate count of the number of cars in attendance and/or a nice, wide shot of the show field taken from someone's hotel room on the 15th floor or something like that.

If there were, I would say, 300 or more cars there, then it would have to be deemed a successful show, and all this back and forth about problems with holding the nats in the west or whether or not they should be held in the same place each year would have ended up being pointless. A 300+ turnout would suggest that the OCA is doing it right.

But if the turnout was not as expected, then, yes, let the debate rage on. It's good. Ideas should be batted back and forth.

66-3X2 442

It's like wrasslin with a pig in slop,you soon figure out the pig loves it.

TK-65

Is it really? Your ideas are the only ones that can be considered, everyone elses ideas have no merit and should not be posted. The numbers dont lie but you continue to argue that California is a hot bed of Olds activity and should be awarded a National event.

Mike is not some hayseed that just got into this hobby. The dude knows people and is known by name by those people. When he says others in the OCA are feeling the same way, I believe him. You dont have to worry about any of these ideas ever happening though. The club will continue on and will die a slow death.

TK-65

Disagree. When a local Olds show (Homecoming and Alliance) can get close to that number and in Homecomings case, blow way past it, your Nationals is not doing anything right.

jaunty75

What numbers that don't lie are you talking about? No one's presented any concrete numbers about the Reno show that I've seen. That's why I said it would be good to hear from someone who was there and has some accurate information.

I've never said that California should be awarded a nationals. Don't take what I've said and twist it into something else. I've said that the west (or any other part of the country) should not automatically be EXCLUDED from being the location of a nationals. I've never said that they MUST be in the west or that California MUST be given one. I DO think it's healthy, though, for the club to hold them out there once in a while.

I'll try to make this simple. I'm in favor of allowing the nationals to be held in different parts of the country as they are now. I agree that there are problems with the current system of moving them around each year. But, in my opinion, there would be problems that would be equally bad and possibly worse in holding them in the same place every year.

Now is that so hard to understand?

jaunty75

Fine, disagree all you want. But you're comparing apples to oranges.

The Homecoming show is nothing at all like your typical "local Olds show." It's held in the center of gravity of the Olds hobby and in the birthplace of Oldsmobile. Of course it'll have a high turnout. Plus, it's a one-day event, not the four-day thing the OCA puts on every year. Many Olds people live within a half-day's drive of the Homecoming show and can easily take a weekend day to go there without incurring a significant cost. The number of people who can take several days off work and travel across the country to stay several days at a possibly pricey hotel might very well be different.

Get some numbers for some of the other chapters around the country and see how many cars they get at their annual car shows. Remember, too, where they're located, and factor that in. When you've got a nice, statistically valid sampling of attendance at OCA local chapter shows around the country, then you can start making judgments about whether or not the OCA is up to snuff in the attendance at the nationals. You can't take just the one or two most heavily-attended local chapter shows, call that typical, and then claim the OCA is failing if it doesn't reach that kind of attendance.

jaunty75

Here's more reasons why holding the nationals in the same place every year is a bad idea.

There is at least one very important difference between the OCA nats and a local chapter show or even a show like the annual Homecoming: they serve different audiences.

Yes, the OCA nats is first a foremost a car show. But it's only 99% a car show. It's not 100% a car show. Unlike a local chapter show, it also has to be a vacation destination.

All you need for proof of this is to read Aron Nance's column "From My Point of View" in Journey with Olds every month. When it gets to be about two or three months before the nats, what does he write about? How much his wife Juju enjoys pulling out the maps and the AAA tour books, plotting their route, making the hotel reservations, and figuring out what rest area or what McDonalds they're going to meet up with friends at as they caravan to the nationals. For her, and for many people, it's the getting there that matters.

And then, once there, there needs to be things for the non-car people in the family, the wives and kids, to do. That's why there are tours to this winery or that antique village or whatever. Do you think the car guys are attracted to these events? Do you think it's things like this that bring the car guys to the nationals? Of course not. But they attract the wives, and if the wives are enthusiastic about making the trip, the easier it is for the car person in the family to attend. This is why the nationals are held in Reno or Old Sturbridge Village or Seven Springs Resort and not in downtown Newark, New Jersey.

If all that mattered was getting car people there, you could hold the nationals every year in a parking lot at an abandoned warehouse in Newark or Buffalo or Detroit. But is Juju or all the other wives like her going to pull out the maps and plan a trip to Detroit? Or, if it's in the same place every year, even if it's a nice place, she'll have the same level of enthusiasm year after year? Much of the fun for people attending the nationals is the chance to visit parts of the country they rarely visit or maybe would never get to.

People have argued about how events like the Mopar nationals are held in the same place and they're very successful. I would guess that attendance at this event is mostly car people. The OCA likes to think of itself as a family club. That's why they have a checkbox on the membership application form so you can indicate an "associate" member for an extra $5.00. Make your wife an associate member. She might not give a rat's *** about your car, but the OCA still gives you a way to include her, and to the extent that makes her just the slightest bit more favorably inclined toward the hobby and the annual show, so much the better.

How many people have complained in these forums about the battles they have with their wives over the time, money, and garage space spent on the hobby? Yes, wifely attitudes run the gamut, from very supportive and even direct involvement to benign indifference to outright hostility. Hell, there's a few people whose marriages sound like they're coming to an end due to the presence of the old Oldsmobile. At least here's the OCA, with it's include-the-entire-family attitude, trying to make this all a little easer.

If the show were held in the same place every year, eventually the Jujus of the world would lose interest. After a few years she stops going. Then a year or two after that, the Arons of the world stop going. Multiply this a couple of hundred more times, and you could have a problem.

TK-65

You really need to check the locations of the attendees. An overwhelming majority of people that attend an OCA event are from the area the show is located. I checked the Seven Springs list, 283 cars attended. Only 13 people from west of the Mississippi attended with cars and only two from Florida. The majority of people came from Pennsylvania and Ohio. A very small amount travel like Aron to these shows.

The big 08 show in Dearborn had less than 50 people from west of the Mississippi bring cars to the show. Dearborn is semi-close to Lansing, is in the heart of everything Automotive, had a great museum across the street, had local shopping and four casinos nearby, and was known early on as to having the makes of being a largely attended OCA. But it didnt draw many people from outside the Midwest. The locals came out in force (MI, OH, IN, IL, WI and PA) Again the heart of OCA country.

rocketraider

I can see holding it the same time every year so people will know to reserve the dates. Not sure about same location, since a Nationals trip is often combined with a vacation to a different part of the country you might not ordinarily visit.

Then you have to deal with host properties who may or may not be able to accommodate your specific date, and believe me they don't care about you if they already have the facility contracted and rooms sold. We ran into that the year we had the Zone show in Pigeon Forge. The first property we met with, didn't have stones enough to tell us they already had a big event scheduled that weekend. Instead, they threw out a contract that no sane person would ever have agreed to.

In Mike's case, there is no OCA chapter in Alabama or Mississippi. That was one of my stated goals as Zone director all those years ago, was to have an active chapter in every state in the Zone, but as hard as we tried we didn't succeed. Even a chapter covering a single state can get into long drives for some members to attend meetings.

Y'all need to remember there are a lot of egos and hardheads at the top of OCA and always have been. Change does not come easily to that group. That hardhead and "my way or the highway" schit is why I am no longer on the OCA Board, or even remotely interested in running for it again. I can get paid to be abused at work. I'm not putting up with it as a volunteer, and the volunteers are the people who plan and execute the National Meets along with almost everything else in OCA.

oldzzy

There are a lot of people from my area that go to the Mopar Nats every year(6 1/2hr drive), one being my best friend, and his wife and other wives love going to that show for the shopping and sight seeing in amish country that is near there.

kpl70sx

FWIW...

I was a member of the Nor-Cal Olds club for almost 20 years. Like most clubs, there is a relatively small group of die-hard enthusiasts that end up doing most of the club business - including putting on a Nats - simply because most members never show up! Not at club meetings, shows, events, etc. So even though Nor-Cal is one of the largest OCA chapters, this does not get reflected when the time comes to get things done.

As far as choosing Reno as a location for this Nats let me mention what I have not seen mentioned yet on this thread. This show was intentionally set up the week prior to the annual Hot August Nights show so that people could participate in both. I think this was a great idea. HAN grew in popularity in the late 90s and early 00's to the point that they cut off registration at 500 cars! There were 5 main Hotel/Casinos that reseved a portion of their parking lots for the show. Part of the fun waas cruising to each of the Casinos to check out the cars each night...always more cars coming and going. And there are all kinds of events centered around this show including racing, nightly organized cruises, poker runs, concerts, swap meet, etc., etc. I loved going to this show because of the diversity of the vehicles that showed up and because of all the things to do there. If you live out west and didn't make both of these shows, you missed a helluva good opportunity for some fun with the old cars.

Which brings up my next point. They NEVER had trouble getting 500 cars to show up in the heat of the desert in early August. Granted, most tend to be from west of the Mississippi, but that's still a good turn out. It's because it was FUN...there was a lot to do and a lot to see even for the non car enthusiast. I think it was a very good idea for Nor-Cal to time their event with HAN.

So I honestly don't think the location is a very good excuse for not having a good turn out. My OPINION is that I just don't think that Oldsmobile enthusiasts tend to be the car show type. I've been going to car shows for almost 30 years and every time I go to an open show, it's the same thing...where are all the Oldsmobiles? I used to go to the Goodguys shows at Pleasanton all the time...1500-2000 cars. It was rare if I needed my second hand to count the Oldsmobiles.

I've been to the Olds Nationals 5 times. Each and every time I loved it. If you're an OCA member and you've never been to the Nats, you don't know what you're missing. As a national club, I think it's appropriate for the national show to be moved around the country to give all members an opportunity to not only attend, but to also participate in hosting. This will always make some people happy and some not. So maybe when the show ventures away from the middle of the country it's understood that turnout will be less. Just my thoughts...

442much

You have to take into account that Hot August Nights is an open event. The Oldsmobile Nationals is actually an Oldsmobile Club of America Nationals. You have to be a member to enter. There might be a lot of Oldsmobile owners who would like to go, however are not members of OCA.

In the past I remember the executive of OCA saying ...if we let in non-members, what if they win a trophy over a member... . There are two solutions to this. Charge more for non members and have a class "Non-Members".

If the Reno nats have a poor showing that's too bad. A lot of hard work went into that show and it must be discouraging for the organizers. An Olds Nats is not put on by OCA, it is put on by the local chapter of OCA. I haven't heard, but I hope it was a well attended show and the chapter at least made money..

starfire

You have to be careful when using our Dearborn numbers though. We got absolutely killed by the timing of the gas price raise that year. Remember that was the highest gas prices had ever been and they were predicting over $5 per gallon that summer. Registrations were pouring in before the gas prices spiked. We had to acquire rooms at a second hotel because our host hotel had filled up. You would not believe the number of cancellations we got as the gas prices drove upwards. Then ironically, the week before the meet, gas prices started to go down. We were planning for the largest OCA Nationals ever. We had our showfield set for 700+ cars. We ended up with 475 registered cars. Yes, most were from MI & OH (but you would expect that no matter what). So we did end up with 39 registrations from AZ, CA, CO, KS, MT, NE, NM, OK, OR, WA, BC and 1 from Australia. We also had 11 from FL. If you want to be accurate about that "West of the Mississippi" number, we also had 47 registrations from AR, IA, LA, MO, MN, & TX, which are all west of the Mississippi. Considering gas prices, we were pleased with the number of registrations we got from "out-country".

jaunty75

Interesting comments, all. Especially kpl70sx. Thank you.

kpl70sx

This show was intentionally set up the week prior to the annual Hot August Nights show so that people could participate in both.

I understand what you're saying, Ken. But my point with my statement above...was that (Olds Club) people could attend both events, not the other way around.
The HAN show was a blast and timing the OCA Nats with HAN was intended to give OCA members a lot more things to do and see above and beyond the OCA show. And yet another opportunity to make a more fun vacation out this was the close proximity to Lake Tahoe. This is a stunningly beautiful part of the country, was just a short drive from Reno and the views driving through this area (top down ) are incredible.
Just my 2-bits but I thought Reno was a great choice for the OCA Nats.

morepwr

Bringing up the hot august nights event is a good point. That event is always the first week of august. Well the people in charge of hot august nights decided to expand and have an event in long beach, california that week and then move on to Lake Tahoe for the weekend and then finally into Reno. That moved the actual Hot august nights event in Reno to the SECOND week of august. Well this made a lot of people mad as it screwed up plans for vacations, etc. The long beach event had many problems and was cancelled leaving the Reno event as the main event like always but a week later. In my opinion, this screwed the Olds Nationals big time because I always go to hot august nights and would have loved to have gone to the nationals but there is a week of down time until hot august nights and I dont have that kind time off from work. If everything would have gone as originally planned, I believe it would have been a much bigger event.

66 Olznut

I am hanging out for Hot August Nights. If memory serves me right, 5000 cars are pre registered and that maxes out several months before the event with over 10,000 hot rods showing up. It's HUGE!

morepwr

I think they raised the registered cars to 5500 and there was an estimated 15000 cars in attendance throughout the city last year! Its a great event. I will be at the Atlantis starting tuesday the 8th and will have my 70 cutlass there.

66 Olznut

I think they tried to expand the HAN name too fast too soon. Long Beach was axed due to greed (imo) and I think South Lake Tahoe HAN is this week.

2blu442

I didn't read all the posts, but I feel the gist of the thread is concern over the future of our hobby. Let me share an observation with you. As I sat in my swap meet space I started looking at the people walking up and down the asiles. I would say at least 80%, maybe even 90% of the people had grey hair or were balding... only a few times did I see a young father with his son pass by. That's the real threat to our hobby!

At work I have a buddy who's into restoring vintage cars, stuff from the teens and twenties. He shared with me that the hobby is fading because so many of the members are dying from old age! We're next! In the next 10-20 years many of us will be gone or at least no longer able to drive. Unless more younger members enter the hobby the clubs will fade away.

John

66 Olznut

I have been a part of OCA since 88 when I got my license and around Oldsmobiles all my life. I know of a few folks who have got their kids into Olds and they are now in their 20s/30s but you are right, it's a rare breed. I am one of those balding folks you refer to but I had my hat on to prevent my head from frying like the rest of my body did, lol!

One thing I did observe. At an eatery inside the hotel, we were next to a grey haired pair of men who were arguing back and forth rather loudly about club politics. How do you expect to attract new blood when some banter about accepting this person or how that person refuses to accept their ways?

jaunty75

I think decline of the Oldsmobile hobby over time is inevitable both because the real focus of interest in Oldsmobile collecting is pre-mid-70s cars and because Oldsmobile itself is no longer around producing new cars with new styling that will interest the younger people of today when they're ready to pursue the hobby in 10 or 20 years.

For people to develop an interest in old cars, they at least somewhat have to have experienced the car when they were in their youth, I would argue. That's what gives you the memories and the interest when you get older and presumably have the time and money to pursue the hobby. At least that's what has always driven me. I've owned or own now '64, '67, '73, and '75 Oldsmobiles. When I was growing up, my father purchased new Oldsmobiles of three of those model years (all but '75-but he also owned a '71), and I learned to drive on the '73.

But we're all aging while the center of focus of the hobby is standing still. As the years pass, the number of people who are old enough to remember the cars of the '60s and '70s when they were new will decline. Hell, even now you really need to be in your early 50s at the youngest to have any strong memories.

Will Oldsmobiles from the '90s ever be as collectible as those from the '60s? I doubt it. I know that orphan makes like Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, etc. have a following, but I don't think that many young people are attracted to those cars. Those manufacturers disappeared long ago, and, at least with a marque like Packard, trying to get into the hobby is just too expensive. Even ones in poor condition go for top dollar, and then it's gotta be difficult and expensive to find parts. Packard-collecting, at least, truly has to be a hobby for the well-to-do.