Good post Dave, its easy for people to get riled up and get on the band wagon but some people may have been mislead and they just passed it on thinking its original and we all have been taken at one time or another.

 

Here is a great example of what I was saying about fonts. Look @ this alternator and tell me what you see.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E:B:SS:US:1123

 

i see the 2nd '2' looks larger but also it difficult to tell with pictures and angles unless you actually have it in your hand

 

This seller is a member here.

 

You're correct about camera angles and such but with the last 2 looking larger and the others normal,I bet it looks like that in real life. You can see it's an original stamping and just shows how they did things back in the day. I could be wrong and if it does belong to a member here,he can post some more pictures to verify.

 

i agree with you that it is an original ...maybe he will post a different angle of it to add to the validity of different fonts etc... i just would never say anything absolute based on a picture unless it was obvious

 

I sold that alternator to a member here I pulled it from a 69 442 4 speed car. It is the same one he and I both posted a picture of earlier in this thread. Post 188 I think

 

Looks like the second 2 is larger in that picture also. If it is indeed larger and not just a camera angle,that shows it's possible to have @ least 2 different font stamps on the same part. It also looks like the second two is out of line with the other numbers also.Again,I'm not saying who is right and who is wrong but these things were not perfect when built,that's all.

 

That was kind of my previous point
We should be very careful to condemn as non-OEM items that just have a different stamp used on them. There is more to it than that. Certainly, when first making such parts back in the day, they would use what is handy. I have seen a lot of evidence that, like the Date Code on the above alternator, they stamped a whole bunch of parts with MOST of the numbers, then later stamped in the last 1 or 2 or 3 digits to complete the process.

I think this, now on epay, is a legit OEM stamp
based on the spacing, locations, and texture and lack of machining mod marks.

 

It looks ok. There would be no reason to add a 2, so...yeah...the font difference is weird. What caught my eye is the fan. I've never seen that hook fan on any Olds before. As far as I know that was a Chevy thing, and not for long. They were recalled because peeps complained about the noise. But the shaft, nut and fan are all equally pitted. It's interesting!

 

Here's the alternator stamp close up. This looks like a very original stamp to me, but I'm no expert. I'm passing it on after a deal fell through. I don't think the union worker doing a mundane task 40+ years ago was worried about the character size, depth or perfect consistency of the stamp. It was just another alt case, along with the other thousands produced that day, week, or year. To draw a conclusion on many of these parts is really pushing it and presumptuous. IMO
I had this listed on here, but is it worth the hassle ? Guess time will tell.

 

Looks to me that this example puts to rest the idea that numbers were perfect in every way when stamped. Again,I'm not taking anybody's back with my statements or observations but after dealing with correct part # and date codes on various parts for many years,I've seen them stamped every which way. I'm just asking to keep an open mind when it came to mass produced cars as they were building cars,not show cars. Are there bogus re stamped parts,you damn right there are but just because some isn't perfectly done,it doesn't mean it isn't real as this alternator clearly shows. This thread if nothing else will help future buy and sell items be more scrutinized to satisfy all involved.

 

Great post 663x2442 your right about there being discrepancies in the stampings and we really have be aware and take our time to make sure they are real and not to implicate someone for a mistake we could make!

 

check this out - look at the first #1 in the part number and the date - much larger than other number 1.

 

I looked at 10 or more alternators today. all but 2 of them had the first #1 bigger like yours. These were all differant number alternators from differant years but were overall very consistent with each other.

 

I noticed vaders pic is like that as well...its maybe that number is stamped deeper making it look larger. thats not the case w the 2 as they appear to be 2 different fonts or styles of 2

a tip for photographing part numbers like these, hold a flashlight to the side of the numbers (or 2 lights one on each side) (ie on the same horizontal plane as the numbers) this helps create a shadow that highlights the number try it w and w out a flash most cases no flash will show the numbers better but not always.

 

X2 deeper, not bigger.

 

I will guess that because the alt case is round, they roll-stamped the numbers in. For whatever reason, in this process, the first [or last?] digit was more vigorously pressed in, forming a somewhat fatter and deeper impression. It also looks like the last 3 digits and the Amperage ratings were put in place after the "1100" part.... since pretty much ALL the alternators started with "1100" why not initially stamp all such cases "1100 [blank]" and then finish with the exact PN last 3 and whatnot right at the time of assembly?

 

Here's another alternator picture. I pulled this one from a parts car about 10 years ago, so I think its likely original. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought the raised diamond shaped fins were only used on these alternators. If that's correct, then what good would re-stamping do if they didn't also have the correct back half?

P5190523.jpg

P5190521.jpg

 

Check out the 2 in 12V it is the same font as the alt 2 number in question. Looks like the same thing for the bigger 1. What I mean is the 12 in the volt area has the bigger 1 and 2 with a different font, so it looks like they had 2 sets of stamps and when stamping dual numbers, one of each may have been used.

 

Other makes (like Chevy, 'vettes, GTO's) of GM had that type finned back. I think there were 2 different finned backs. I think maybe only up to 70. I used to know this stuff inside out, but once I got mine I forgot about it. Anyways...later alts don't have the finned backs so the Chinese face can be used with altered numbers. Personally, I like to see an open face alt, I'd rather see a Chinese blank open face on a 442, than a wrong alt I can spot from 20 feet away.

 

The 1100 853 and both the 1100 890's in the previous photo's are real. Olds, Pontiac and the Corvette are the only vehicles to use the Open Face and Diamond fin back alternators. They were only offered in 1969 and 1970. keep in mind that some rebuilders may have tossed the back and switched out a different one when rebuilding. Hope this helps. Thanks

 

Buick and Cadillac also used open faced, but without the diamond rear.

 

Agreed, it along with the OAI air cleaner and the brake booster are what stands out the most once the hood is opened. Knowing how ridiculously expensive these parts are I don't shame anyone who uses a repo openface alternator on their car (or a non openface for that matter). I just think the openface ones look cool.

 

You'd think that someone making their own VIN plate would at least form raised characters, not indented with the $4 Shipwreck Tools number stamp set. That plate is likely to get a close look-see on a rare and expensive car.


http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...ng/?refer=news

 

Post #32
.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +
"The distributor OD statistics are as follows [inches]:

______cap seat___Body OD___Difference
MIN_____3.790___3.805___0.010
MAX_____3.800___3.834___0.030
AVG_____3.795___3.816___0.020
ST DEV__0.003___0.007___0.005

Basically, it says that the distributor cap seat is a carefully machined surface, with a standard deviation of three thousandths of an inch on a base measurement averaging 3.795". The spread of the data from smallest to largest varies only 0.010".

The body of the distributor, below the cap seat, was not machined in earlier years [dividing line evidently mid-1969 going by dates of cast vs machined parts], so early 1969 and earlier housings should have the same as-cast texture as the rest of the distributor. Those would be very hard to restamp undetectably due to the textured surface.

Later distributors, with the entire OD of the distributor machined, will bear the above measurement for the larger diameter portion below the cap seat-
Average of 3.816 inches, plus or minus 0.010" or so.

My fake sample was machined with both steps, one to cut the number off, and then the cap seat smaller OD was also re-cut to maintain the [0.020" average] step difference between the two surfaces. "
.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++

I really appreciate all y'all posting known real or known faked part numbers. Especially the ones with the real/fake clue embedded in the picture. I just went thru this thread again and saved many such photos. We need a SEMINAR on this at the Homecoming/ National Meet. Slides and a handout. HOW TO SPOT THE FAKES. The exact subtle differences in the characters and whatnot- like the factory correct large fillets on the "7". The distributor diameter differences- EASY to measure!

Sam's Seminar of Spurious Stuff !!

 

Here is the '68 W30 Auto Trans tag
AFAIK totally original
has been in my possession since oh 1985
VIN stamp matches the car

iPhone camera goes into focus... then OUT of focus, then takes the photo
Antique Canon digital captures the item much more clearly

14159_68-W30_CN7b_zpsa65d41e0.jpg?1402246138951&1402246279710

14159_68-W30_CN8b_zps6632eede.jpg?1402246138937&1402246279704

14159_68-W30_CN8d_zpsb3ff315d.jpg?1402246138947&1402246279708

 

xyz pdq

 

Where did all the W30 parts go?

Nothing for sale anymore??
What happenened?

Sam

 

Simply the vagaries of the market, nothing more, nothing less.

 

You guys should also post where your finding these restamped parts. Just so people know what to look out for.

 

I hocked all of that junk and bought 3 80's cars instead.
They take up a lot more room, but are definitely more fun to sit on than a water pump or distributor.

 

Hi Josh the majority of the parts were 70 w-30 related.
A lot of people have been compensated from what I understand that were directly affected.

However we are still getting emails and calls regarding questionable parts that were bought but the cars they were put on are now sold.

Another issue is carbs, carbs that are bought from carb shops are re-stamps and then being sold as legit.
So another thing to watch out for.

Dean

 

Yup, lots of people been compensated for parts that they thought were legit but were re stamps. (70 dist, trans, alts, and rear ends to be specific).

Some people have sold their cars and are in the process of getting more information about the whereabouts of them because some have been sold a couple of times.

Very interesting........

 

I dont think it intetesting at all....of course this was going to happen!

 

I say interesting because these people are receiving refunds - no questions asked from the seller.

Why? Hmmmmm

 

Sorry, i misunderstood

 

I'd be interested in hearing comments about this W31 carb

 

From the angle and lighting in the photo, I would say real. The date is a known W-31 manufacture date. The NA looks a little strange but that may be the angle or lighting. I don't see any evidence of a ridge where the pad was machined off.

If you could rotate the carburetor clockwise a bit to get a different angle, I would think I would be able to give a firmer answer.

 

I would send a pic to Sam. He would be more than happy to give you his insight. He is quite knowledgeable on this and furthermore has real carbs to compare to as well as a library of pics

Off the bat 9 in date code looks suspect and possibly last 5 (not positive on that)

Also the two 2's are not consistent

NA looks inconsistent w/ other tones


I will let him know and he will pm you for email address

Dean