Yes very true.
At this point most know but it needs to happen

 

Measure the diameters
compare to my data above

I will say the 9 and 7 lack the fillet in the corner

But, again, who can say that the OEM supplier[s] did not use differing stamp sets on different days/ assembly plants?

I also see your OD has non-OEM machining marks- closely spaced lathe tracks, with no ~0.10" ghost track.

So, I say "restamped" but ck the diameters.

 

I feel the same, the smoke has to clear. Mike, nobody ever said you were in the wrong or passing bad parts, too many assumptions. I have had many transactions with you and vise versa with no problems, we always got it done. i hope that we can move through all this on the same foot. Realistically the real person needs to be assocaited with the fake parts and that is that. Life goes on and this treard will definalty make us very carefull with rare parts purchases in the future.

 

I also don't see anything wrong with this stamping. The date code is a known manufacturing date. I don't see evidence of the pad being machined.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...uild-date.html

 

Real carb from real W30 - until I got this car I never saw this build date for a W30 carb! Look how the 58 is a bit higher on this carb as well

 

I don't know about the dist and carbs, but I have been working on alternators for over 40 years and I have seen them with different font or style numbers on the same alt The 3 comes to mind. I also have seen numbers stamped very deep and clear and the number next to it is faint or unevenly spaced. Some alts have a pie or chart stamped inside the alt indicating the date as well. Some alts have a raised number or a raised delco logo on the flat part of the case. All 3 of the 853 alts pictured may be original. A closer inspection may tell you more. I have seen double stamps with sometimes just 1 or2 of the numbers double stamped. I have even seen a partial stamp in the wrong place with the complete stamp in the proper place. Even the US mint miss stamps sometimes. I would think a forgery would take great care to make everything perfect as opposed to a factory worker stamping a bunch of them every day. Good luck on the dist and carbs. I don't have a clue about them.

 

I truly hope and pray that the intent of this thread and direction it heads is both educational and informative. Having a pictorial resource of examples, both original and re-stamped forgeries side by side to reference will be of enormous value to perspective buyers. These posted side by side comparisons should all but stop the amount of fellow Oldsmobile enthusiast/ restorers from getting burnt again and again!



IMHO, the posting rules for the “parts for sale” section should require the seller to include detailed photos of part being sold. This type of public disclosure would prevent false accusations protecting both the buyer and seller, and would also encourage truthfulness and full disclose of said parts being sold.


This requirement could be easily fulfilled for free by devices that everybody has i.e. smart phone or digital camera, and downloaded to a free photo sharing site like Photo Bucket and then linked to the CO ad.



Also, I don’t want to overstate the obvious, but we all here know that China IS reproducing the front half of the six spoke open face alternator cases blank with no stampings!

 

Here is my unique dated carb. It is the only one in the data with this date. I believe most of the carbs were built on the previously known dates, but a few were built on other dates. A photo of my stamp is below. It exibites the same raised 58.

2659.jpg

 

Mike that's completely fair and thanks for the reply
I guess after this we all need to take more responsibility in our transactions. We on both sides need to be more vigilant
Ty Dean

 

good points maybe a seller/buyer system over haul

 

If the pros are being taken what chance does the novice have?
I think when dealing with fellow car enthusiasts trust is a very important part. It's a sad state we are in if you can not trust fellow forum members not to pass counter fit parts. If you are turning over or flipping parts I think there should be accountability. When posting there should be a warning the W part I'm selling may be a fake buyer beware. There should be know rare parts posted or sold with out high res photos for all to see.

 

I think for the most part, the majority of sellers on here have hearts of gold with all the right intentions.


There are a pretty good set of rules for the classified section, however requiring pictures in the ad is tough because of some of the different variables that come into play. Bulk parts lists, parts cars being dismantled, and many other reasons. I think it's a buyers responsibility to make an educated purchasing decision when buying specific unique parts and perform the required due diligence prior to purchase. If a special part is advertised with a specific application yes there ought to be a picture posted and any additional requests for pictures should be through email requests.


We all understand the frustration from getting something other than what was advertised.

 

actually that is true far as the uploading of pics if too big you cant
I learned that quick in the beginning.

 

a restamp
is way different than some
chinese **** in a box that is now ok????:con fused:
or a true OEM gem

ask 4 pictures!!

 

Lol I'm not touching that that's a whole another can of worms

 

Just thought I would let you guys know I have 2 rochesters with NO NUMBERS yes they had them and that is how those restamps look real because they did not grind the pad they got some of these bodies with no numbers and then they stamped them and they look close but no cigar!!

 

in my opinion this is a weak status quo response to an obviously serious problem... due diligence pics etc are in order of course but even the knowledgeable people have been burned hundreds of dollars thousands perhaps (better double check some engine block stampings)...the last sentence ,''we all understand the frustration from getting something other than what was advertised'' should also include, ' and those that are aware of selling forged parts as original SHOULD BE BANNED

 

That is not a status quo answer to a complicated issue. Pogo, I'm aware of scammers that have been banned in the past and I agree 100%. However, if no one reports it how are we supposed to know. I assure you, all reported issues are investigated and discussed.


I also understand that if a knowledgeable person can get scammed, how's the poor guy who is new at this going to know. I've seen some discussions in the past where members posted pictures of items they felt were questionable and other members have helped them out.


I've been reading this thread from the beginning and wondering where it was going. I don't claim to be an expert, there are some blatant issues that stare you in the face but there are a few pictures posted that had me puzzled. So if I were doing a restore on an extremely valuable and collectable car where date codes and pn's mattered, you bet I sure as hell would be doing my homework on everything I purchased.

 

Beside the fact of these people are selling bogus parts, and Im not down playing that fact, now there will be a mistrust for anyone selling legitimate parts. This is a serious situation and needs to be addressed and handled so the average guy can feal somewhat safe in the fact that they are dealing with honest people.

Greg

 

Reputation matters.

 

It is now more important than ever to post pictures of "numbers" parts. Even if I am contacted for one I don't have listed I will post it here first for the buyer to see fully what he is getting and the community can comment on what it is.


I just remembered that I have another numbers part I got here. I need to look at it when I get home.

 

I recently asked a member who was ripped off a significant amount who was the seller.
He was refunded from I understand, so hopefully he will disclose that person but that is his decision.

I cant do anymore than that but at this point it needs to come out, I would do it but I was not directly affected by this person. Hell, still may if no one does because of the nature of it, the amounts involved and lastly the number of people affected.

My carb in question was not Mike's fault (Vader) and there is no absolute proof that it is fraudulent.

My other carb is definitely but that transaction took place away from here.

I truly hope all that were affected by this individual are made whole, that was goal of this thread among other goals:
1)Identify
2)stop the behavior
3)bring awareness/education (which was a benefit for me)
4)victims made whole

I hope this has helped, granted I got out of line at times and my apologies.

Dean

 

Well said Dean, no other words for me.

I respect everyone here and apologize if I tweeted a bit myself. Awareness for the next time. Hind site is always 20/20

 

Ok, so, eventually, at the end of all this gossiping, we'll know who the scammers are on here, right? Let's not go promising anyone who got caught scamming amnesty and anonymity just because they made it right in the end.

 

Well done Dean.

I apologize too if I offended some of you.
I hope we all learned from this as I did.

Have a great day,

Sam

 

I dont see the reason for anyone to apologize except the seller(s) of the fake parts and im not sure i learned anything that i probably didnt already know about this stuff anyway but i do know if someone was reimbursed thats great... now the unknown seller(s) can go back to work i also dont think there is much more to add at this point

 

that's one of the goals however its up to the people directly affected to come forward since the seller has not and my guess wont

 

yeah I'm done

 

I will add to this one thing you have to remember. Everything posted here about what is right,wrong or indifferent is based on everything being the same and perfect when parts are produced. GM used different vendors for parts and just about everything else. My point is,just because the font may be different doesn't mean it's bogus. GM used different vendors for stamps too. I'll give you one example that I know of. I parted what was left of a 67 W-30 way back and it had a rear axle with the SD code pounded out with an object and the 4.11 Q5 or Q9 code stamped next to it If this were today,it would be called a fraud but in all reality it was done @ the factory. I am in no way condoning re stamped parts and yes there are some bogus parts being sold but just because something don't look perfect doesn't mean it's bogus. If some of the info listed here was used in a court of law,the judge would throw it out. I am not taking anybody's back on this,if you're selling bogus parts,shame on you and it needs to stop and the damaged buyers made whole again.

 

What can you tell me about this distributor? It was sold to me as a real one but I am not sure now. I had decided not to use it at one time and almost sold it. If it is fake I am sure glad it didn't sell.

 

Not sure if you're talking to me and I'm no expert on the subject. It's really bad when guys starts thinking every part is bogus.

 

Once it has been "remanufactured" doesn't it lose it's OEM luster and become something rebuilt to the rebuilder's tolerances or is that unimportant?

 

I personally didn't care when I bought it. I just needed a good distributor and with this having 70 442 auto numbers on it I was happy. Paid $200. I figured I would have $100 in rebuilding a regular distributor so I figured another $100 would be ok. I am using it but if the numbers are fake I want to grind them off. The guy I got it from posted very clear pictures of the numbers here on CO. If it is fake I would bet he didn't know it. This is actually his picture he posted.

 

Many asked and wanted to know:

Scott has identified the person who sold him the parts, it is on his thread where this conversation initially took place.

 

It is late enough to have been machined on both the cap seat and larger OD
I see the ~0.1" apart ghost trails in the machining, like OEM units.

For these reasons, I vote proper OEM
but obviously rebuilt by ?????

Is there some reason you can't just measure the diameters and compare to the data I set forth above, and see if you have an obviously re-cut housing?

 

I guess i didn't see that post. I could check it against a stock regular number distributor.

 

Came across these today in a local Ad. Seller was a straight shooter. Before i could ask he informed me of their true origin.

 

Brian Trick is the name of a seller. I do not know him but I have talked to him the phone a few times about a crankshaft. What bothers me mostly is this is a person that has gone out of his to help people with advise for one thing, so I'm not sure what went wrong. It goes without saying that buyers of his parts need to examine their parts based on how they were advertised

 

I'm going to make a comment that in no way defends or accuses anyone or any parts that might be suspect. This is true to the best of my knowledge. Within the last year, there was an Oldsmobile drum-to-drum rear advertised for sale on this site. It was coded for a specific application that would have been "correct" for one of my/our cars. I didn't really need it, but was curious to see what the market price was for that item. It had been for sale for several weeks and I called to inquire about it. The seller informed me that it had been sold to Brian Trick and that he often sold parts to Brian. I have no idea if that rear was legit or not as I had never personally seen it.
Again, I'm only throwing this out there for info. on this subject, and as I said earlier, this is true to the best of my knowledge. Maybe, there is a "trail" if you will, that needs to be investigated. I'm a neutral party in all of this and hope to remain as such, but I thought this might add to the thread.

 

post #244 [heh, "442" backwards]

They just removed the lower bar from an E
The 403686 is still obvious.