344870M

So. Thirty plus years ago I spoke with the original dealership mechanic where my car was purchased. Turns out that he ended up as an avid W machine collector/restorer (and somewhat of a hard case to deal with) During our conversation he taunted me with the fact that he still had the original block from my 70 W30. The original owner had blown the engine and as the dealership mechanic, this guy replaced it under warranty. At the time, I was not interested in buying it. (smdh) Anyhow, fast forward to 2019. The shop restoring my car reached out to this guy, who said that he thinks he used the block for another project car. Okay...first question. If the engine needed replaced under factory warranty, wouldn't the block have needed to be unuseable? Then further into the conversation, he said that he might still have it. But it would not be a 3-4 hundred sale. It needed to be worth his while. Second question. What would you pay to secure the original block to this car? Even if it has a coffee can sized whole in the block?

I currently have the factory replacement block in the car. But I think having the original block, especially if severely thrashed, would be a cool side piece.

Nailheadcanuck

I get the funny feeling that mechanic was hedging his bets; he probably figured the block was salvageable and hung on to it for a future project. I used to know a local dealership that made a lot of money screwing warranty companies and customers, they only got caught when they got careless. I would think the practice of insurance or warranty fraud is a lot more common than we'd tend to think. Just because it happened back in 1970 doesn't mean there weren't crooked people back then either. I'd have a good hard look at the block; if it's salvageable it's probably got next to no wear on it, and as long as there isn't a huge hole in it, or if the crank webbing isn't cracked or shot, it would be worth spending the cash. But, if it's air conditioned, then no amount of money will bring it back from being a boat anchor. Chances are the original owner cooked a head or head gasket and got water in where it shouldn't be, isn't that what Olds engines were infamous for when subjected to huge amounts of abuse?

344870M

Yeah. I got a bad feeling about this guy when I talked to him all those years ago. I'd be interested in it even if it is junk. Only because it adds to the cars history. She is currently undergoing a concours restoration and I have two broadcast cards. She was ordered with a 4spd and dealer 4.33s. So the destroyed original engine would look kinda cool sitting next to her. But man, if that block is useable.........That could be a game changer.

oldcutlass

If it weren't a W30 I'd say blow it off. See what he'll do.

Koda

Just remember, a kind word and a gun get you farther than a kind word.* If the block is salvageable, and it's for your car, and you make the guy a good offer, and he tries to gouge you, drag his *** through the mud and make sure every car guy around knows what kind of a POS he is for taking advantage of someone trying to make their car numbers matching again. You get to charge a profit for your sale; you don't get to be a dick without consequences.

*=Legal disclaimer: This is a quotation. I am not advocating shooting the guy; I am advocating to start nice, then, if he gets shitty, start the shaming.

jaunty75

"Worth his while?" What does that mean? That he has to go steal it from somewhere in order to give it back to you?

This guy sounds like a Grade A SOB, and I wouldn't give him the time of day, let alone money to make it "worth his while." What's he going to do with the block if you don't buy it? As it sits where he's got it stored, it's earning him exactly zero dollars. The ONLY person in the world it has any value to is you, so if he doesn't sell it to you, he doesn't sell it, and he continues to earn zero dollars. So, if you really want it, offer him $300 or $400 or whatever it's worth to you. If he says no, walk away. You've got a nice car, and he's got a rusting piece of metal in the corner of his garage.

slantflat

If it was replaced under warranty, why didn't it go back to General Motors? Didn't they do that back then?

friesjh

I have a friend that works service at one of the local Chevrolet dealerships. He ends up with all kinds of parts from replacements. Depending on what was going on with the replacement the block may or may not be reusable. The OP said the guy thought he used it on a different project which leads me to believe that there is not a big hole in the block. Also, replaced parts do not go back to GM. There is a regional person who looks at these parts, evaluates them, takes pictures as needed, and reports back to GM. I would not assume something underhanded went on at the dealership, unless it's the guy trying to gouge you for the block.

70-442-W30

First of all, you want proof he has what he says he has. Is he local to your home? If so, ask if you can meet him and see it in person. Get a few pics of the block and stamps in case you don't come out with an agreed deal then at least you have the pics should he decide to "sell" it to someone else.

You asked what should be paid to get that block. Well I have a feeling this block was held for one purpose only. That was to entice you into a deal at some point. Its probable condition really serves no purpose to anyone else, otherwise the guy would have sold it by now. You don't exactly come across a W-30 block everyday. This could have went into plenty of cars if it would have been a candidate.

My guess is one of two things...either the guy doesn't have it, or its condition is so poor that you are his only potential sale. But, I could be wrong. Hopefully so!

Weezer

The parts are then supposed to be destroyed, because that is how the process works. My wife, when she was a regional parts rep with GM, actually went to a few dealerships with a sledgehammer to make sure that parts were made un-useable. To let parts get back into service opens the OEM up to liability.

The individual in question that claims to still have the block pulled a big no-no. I'm sure the statute of limitations has expired, but all OEM's take this stuff seriously.

OLDSter Ralph

There was no reason to return it to the factory. What would they do with it ? Crating and shipping the "defective part" has no value to them because they manufacture "new cars". Warrantied items weren't always useless, they were defective for proper operation and such. Nothing underhanded was done. Frequently the mechanics "saved" things from the scrap pile.
Example: If an engine spun some rods bearings, the factory sent a replacement short block assembly. The factory paid for the new short block, shipping and installation. They didn't want to pay crating, shipping and handling a short block back that couldn't be used in a NEW car. That's how I ended up with a 1966 block for my 1965 4-4-2. This allowed me to run the 1966 W-30 camshaft in my 1965.

I don't think there is any visual difference between a W-30 engine block and any other block of the same size. The block has only a number that is specific to a certain vehicle. The big differences were in the clearances, heads and camshaft. Keep in mind this engine block was removed about 50 years ago when "numbers matching" wasn't even a concept. The engine block could have been used in an Anglia, ******, Cutlass, Toronado or any of 100 other things.
The only person it has exceptional value for, is the owner of a car that survived the crusher. If it had come from a car that was totaled out crushed 40 years ago, it would have no exceptional value.
The guy might be a duckhead (sp.) but that's his choice and nothing we can do about it.
.........Just my two cents worth

70-442-W30

Yes, but many people choose to market the common interchangable parts on these more desireable cars in the way of mentioning that they "came from a W-30" or "out of a Hurst Olds" etc. Maybe only matters to some, but a definite marketing tactic in use today.

droptopron

I'll be the contrarian on this. The guy has something of value, even if its just to you. As any seller does, he's within his rights to price it as he sees fit. Plenty of parts guys price their stuff too high. If his price is too high, you should walk away. It's possible the orig owner threw a rod and it was more expedient to replace the short block rather than fix the engine. Maybe it just needs a sleeve. Not cost effective or worth the extra time then but it would be now to make your car matching numbers.

If the block isn't usable its a cool to have paperweight and should be priced accordingly.

If it is usable, how much more does the matching # block make it worth? For a W30, $10K? Maybe more.
If the block is usable I'd say you should make a serious run at it just from the economic standpoint.

Weezer

I beg to differ. When something is warrantied, there IS a reason to return it to the OEM, because in this case, GM SPO could have wanted to examine the reason for failure, in order to determine if there is a design flaw that needs to be addressed, or a manufacturing process flaw that needs correcting. This is the foundation for technical service bulletins, recalls, etc. Any time a mechanic "saved" something from the scrap pile, they were putting themselves in the position of committing fraud. My previous post about my wife with the sledgehammer is not a whimsical, made-up story. Done right in the middle of dealership service drive, to ensure that the Service Depts knew that their new rep was going to enforce the corporate rules.

As far as being in the business of selling new cars... again, not entirely true. GM SPO (now GM CCA or Customer Care and Aftersales) is a big revenue generator for GM.

oldcutlass

Back in the 80's I had a relative that worked as a mechanic at a franchised dealership. I would up with quite a few short blocks and other parts that needed minor repairs that were replaced under warranty. It was perfectly legal.

In todays dealerships where a performance engine can be valued at $10-20k+, they are returned to the manufacturer.

vette442

Damn forum. I just typed up a long response about the drama I went through about a decade ago to get the original block to my old V Code Supreme from a previous owner and his extortion, and the post vanished when I hit "submit". (And I still thank the couple guys here and on ROP who physically went and got the block from that jagaloon and brought it to Norwalk.)

In any case, there's only one original block for your car. I'd go as much as $1500 for it for a W-30 (I dropped over a grand for the V Code 455) then once the block is in your hands, you can wish bad karma on him and his excessive profits. Don't wait too long - if he croaks, you may never see that block again. I know that having the original block helped sell my car for minimal haggle price.

Terry

OLDSter Ralph

Yes, purely a "marketing tactic" to increase the selling price. If you pay premium cash for something that's unproveable or unimportant, that's your choice.

Well, that's not how it was done back then. Let me ask you, would you buy a new car for $60,000 that was comprised of mostly used or previously defective parts ? Would you pay $60,000 if it only had some used or previously defective parts ?

I am not looking to argue, just to set the record straight with information where it applies. What a person wants to believe or wants to charge or pay is his/her choice.

jensenracing77

You need to look at it and know it is from your car. Or at least pictures. Also need to see the damage. If it is the original engine and there is a way to make it run again It is worth quite a bit. Not saying he should excessively jack the price up but you don't have control over that. The guy sounds like a potential jerk but again, that is beyond your control. If I were in those shoes and were able to get the original block I would be willing to pay 2-4K if need be because it would up the value of the car that much and likely more. That is all you can control and sadly that guy is taking advantage of it.

Now, if it is not possible to make that block run again, I would still try to get it back but would never pay what I would for a good one. You may be surprised what can be fixed.

I know a guy that had the opportunity to buy his original broadcast card from the original owner of his 4 speed W-30. The original owner wanted $5000 for the card. He had no way to prove the car was a W-30 without it. He grit his teeth and paid it but the car went from a $25,000 range car to at least a $60,000 car after he bought the card. The sad thing was, the original owner had the nerv to ask for a ride in the car after selling the card for that much. Needless to say, he did not get a ride.

Chesrown 67 OAI

​​​​​Well, I guess you can guess how I feel about the guy that owns the "Rusty hulk" of my original 67 W30 car! Yes, you CAN say "DUCKHEAD" 😥

OLDSter Ralph

Sometimes life and people are not fair. Its a shame, but we can't always change it. The world will never run out of "Duckheads", that we can count on.....

Weezer

Ralph, I think you may have misinterpreted my point about SPO/CCA and the service parts arms of OEM's in general. Service parts are *almost* always new parts, not something that came in on warranty from the field, was inspected, and sent back to one of the parts warehouses. The amount of parts that get sent back to HQ for analysis are case-by-case basis, and depends on different factors. You're absolutely correct in that the field rep is typically responsible for that decision.

To explain the *almost* always new parts: remanufactured parts are the exception, but then they are clearly labeled as such. Short blocks, long blocks, calipers, HVAC heads, radios, instrument clusters, depending on the production run of the component and if it is a typical service item or not.

And, my point about fraud: I guess I worded that poorly. That comes into play when a service dept claims to have replaced a part on warranty, then puts the part they replaced BACK into another vehicle via the dealership service & parts depts. Or, they say they warranty replaced a part, but didn't actually replace it (we caught a local dealer that pulled that stunt on our personal vehicle, wife went into work, pulled up all their work orders specifically relating to our Enclave, and spoke to the Service Mgr on the phone and called him out on each lie he told her -- whoopsie, you busted!). Can and does happen routinely, because there are crappy people in the world that only care about lining their own pockets. Now, when it comes to a mechanic pulling something that is / was supposed to be scrapped, back in the day the OEM's might not have been as strict. Nowadays, they are supposed to follow a process and can get in trouble with corporate.

But anyway, yeah, I'm not trying to argue, either. After your reply, I felt I should clarify a couple of things, and also acknowledge that processes have changed very much in the past 40 years.

And I just read Eric's post about the broadcast card. Ooof. I guess the guy must've been still kicking himself for letting go of such a valuable car and felt that asking such a price for it was his only way of making himself feel better financially. It certainly would not set well in my mind to do that to someone. That's almost like finding a wallet with a couple grand in it, and sending it back to the owner a few hundred lighter "just because I'm such a good guy.... I deserve something for my time!" Bad juju.

OLDSter Ralph

I never try to figure out a person's motivation. If something is priced to high, I just walk away. Throwing emotions into the mix causes bad decisions.

70-442-W30

That would be a tough pill to swallow. But I can (hopefully) say that we don't have any members here that would try something like that. It is one thing to have a rare part...you want at least the part value and a little more for your trouble, I understand. But charging a huge premium for a piece of paper like that when they can simply help the guy out is crazy and rude!

toymobile

The # matching thing was a big deal to some owners back in the day, I know of a few blocks that were re-stamped with the VIN of the engine removed but not able to repair because the OP wanted his car to be # matching, I had a set of dies to re stamp in my tool box for a long time, Corvette owners were the most who wanted the MATCHING #.

All kind of things went on at SOME dealerships.

I talked to a racer that ran a truck in Atlanta before the NASCAR truck sires started, he had paid $15000 for a NASCAR race ready engine that had patch in the block a rod had went through at some point The engine was sold AS IS, took the truck to Atlanta and the engine blew up on the warm up laps, The supplier refused to help out in any way.
That being said any thing can be patched or repaired depends on how deep your pockets are.

Johnny

edzolz

I can go one better. A 70 442 Pace Car was sold in the North Dallas area that had the original engine replaced by the owner who didn't care or didn't know it was a Pace car. I ended up with the block from that car (correct numbers and vin) but the person who bought it was not interested in the block that matched. Later on I sold it to another Olds guy from Austin.

kjr442

And I got the heads from you Ed.

WTHIRTY1

I'm with Eric on this one. I think you need to first inspect the block and see it with your own eyes instead of talking hypotheticals. If he truly has your original VIN stamped block, you need to get that back in your possession--especially since you're doing a concourse restoration. Keep us posted. Perhaps, someone knows the individual and can help talk some sense in to him. I know first hand how frustrating it can be to have original parts to your car in the hands of someone else and them not wanting to make a deal for the "betterment" of the hobby. Best of luck!

Toocool

I don't agree with "dragging his *** through the mud" What point would it serve? The block isn't worth anything to anyone but you. He owns it now and has the right to ask anything he wants, its not like he stole it. If he wants too much just forget about it if you don't want to pay his price, Im sure everyone here would like to make a profit when they sell their car.

droptopron

Agreed - its simply a business transaction. Your car is prob worth $10K+ with that engine. The guy knows that and wants something for it. It doesn't matter if its only worth something to you. Its still worth something. If he overplays his hand, so be it. Walk away knowing you did what you could.

Koda

I stand for what is right in this world. Sometimes, I stand alone.

Toocool

Its kind of like being unwilling partners, you want to make your car more valuable (hopefully) and he wants a piece of that added value. If he isn't unreasonable you can both come out ahead. And to be honest he doesn't owe you anything.
Good luck with it.

matt69olds

aqua67w30

I have a warranty replacement block for a 70 W30 4 speed in my '67 but nobody thinks it's worth much.

11971four4two

I would not pay ransom money
for a block stamp
window sticker / build **** / broadcast card
etc

scrappie

I think its worth something

alain

A warranty block is the next best thing to original something happened in the car's early life and it was fixed under warranty JMO
Alain

Gerald Nickels

I have this friend here in Calif. that worked at a MOPAR Dealer back in the 60s and would keep the engines like hemi and 440 engines. I saw 3 hemi blocks complete with 4 spds and 4 or 5 440 motors and yes he still has them. Not sure if Dodge or Plymouth dealer. For some reason I saw a 389 or 421 Pontiac 3X2 engine too.
Gerald Nickels