"Numbers Matching" means anything?
April 23rd, 2009, 08:56 AM
#1
Trying to remember member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,112
"Numbers Matching" means anything?
We've had discussions about the term "numbers matching" and its use and misuse. And I've said that it is pretty much a meaningless term. If fact to me, its use indicates the users *doesn't* know what he's talking about.
Here's a perfect example (No offense to anybody involved with this car. I am not criticizing the car involved at all):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WOW-O...3A1|240%3A1318
In the text:
"1966 OLDSMOBILE CUTLAS 442 EVERYTHING IS ORIGINAL NUMBER MATCHING CAR"
Okay lets see what follows:
"WAS BORN AUTO BUT HE TURNED IT OVER TO A HURST 4 SPEED
10 BOLT 342 OR 391 REAR END"
Hummm, neither the the trans nor the rear are original, and at least the rear isn't even correct. What's so bad about that? Nothing. *IF* he didn't say numbers matching.
Which brings me back to the question I always ask when "numbers matching" is used: "What numbers match what?"
My advice is that whenever you hear "numbers matching" (without an explanation of what numbers match what) consider that is only means one thing: the user of that term is uninformed.
Here's a perfect example (No offense to anybody involved with this car. I am not criticizing the car involved at all):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WOW-O...3A1|240%3A1318
In the text:
"1966 OLDSMOBILE CUTLAS 442 EVERYTHING IS ORIGINAL NUMBER MATCHING CAR"
Okay lets see what follows:
"WAS BORN AUTO BUT HE TURNED IT OVER TO A HURST 4 SPEED
10 BOLT 342 OR 391 REAR END"
Hummm, neither the the trans nor the rear are original, and at least the rear isn't even correct. What's so bad about that? Nothing. *IF* he didn't say numbers matching.
Which brings me back to the question I always ask when "numbers matching" is used: "What numbers match what?"
My advice is that whenever you hear "numbers matching" (without an explanation of what numbers match what) consider that is only means one thing: the user of that term is uninformed.
April 23rd, 2009, 09:15 AM
#2
Oldsdruid
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southside Vajenya
Posts: 10,358
The term has become cliche, and I think people use it to try to add cred to their car. (Read: justify jacking up the asking price.)
It's really interesting when they try to claim numbers matching on pre-60s GM cars, when the best you can do is translate individual components' build date to the Fisher assembly date.
As usual we can thank the Corvette/Chevy crowd for the obsession with numbers. But considering how many Chevrolet products underwent transplants, I can understand why a correct numbers Chevrolet should be considered more valuable.
It's really interesting when they try to claim numbers matching on pre-60s GM cars, when the best you can do is translate individual components' build date to the Fisher assembly date.
As usual we can thank the Corvette/Chevy crowd for the obsession with numbers. But considering how many Chevrolet products underwent transplants, I can understand why a correct numbers Chevrolet should be considered more valuable.
April 23rd, 2009, 10:23 AM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,052
Well, I'm pretty sure it was SUPPOSED to mean that the car is with the original engine & components, transmission, rear end that came with the car from the factory. Sadly, due to people wanting to screw others over for a few bucks, it has come to mean "yes, this has an engine with numbers. what numbers, I don't know."
April 23rd, 2009, 11:13 AM
#6
Trying to remember member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,112
Yeah, but it usually means "noose fits the neck"
April 23rd, 2009, 11:46 AM
#8
Trying to remember member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,112
I didn't mean this to be critical of you! You have an awesome car, and nothing changes that. Frankly, I'm much more impressed with your car than I am with all of those high dollar restorations out there. 
April 23rd, 2009, 02:46 PM
#13
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 2,212
April 25th, 2009, 06:50 AM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: s/w PA
Posts: 255
Originally, I too thought numbers matching meant that it had the correct engine and trans. After discovering that my W has all the correct engine components, the rear end, the master cylinder, all the glass, anything that I could decipher, I realized what numbers matching should mean. I don't have the correct alt or water pump but I can definitely tell you what does match.
April 25th, 2009, 09:45 PM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta
Posts: 2,623
We've had discussions about the term "numbers matching" and its use and misuse. And I've said that it is pretty much a meaningless term. If fact to me, its use indicates the users *doesn't* know what he's talking about.
Here's a perfect example (No offense to anybody involved with this car. I am not criticizing the car involved at all):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WOW-O...3A1|240%3A1318
In the text:
"1966 OLDSMOBILE CUTLAS 442 EVERYTHING IS ORIGINAL NUMBER MATCHING CAR"
Okay lets see what follows:
"WAS BORN AUTO BUT HE TURNED IT OVER TO A HURST 4 SPEED
10 BOLT 342 OR 391 REAR END"
Hummm, neither the the trans nor the rear are original, and at least the rear isn't even correct. What's so bad about that? Nothing. *IF* he didn't say numbers matching.
Which brings me back to the question I always ask when "numbers matching" is used: "What numbers match what?"
My advice is that whenever you hear "numbers matching" (without an explanation of what numbers match what) consider that is only means one thing: the user of that term is uninformed.
Here's a perfect example (No offense to anybody involved with this car. I am not criticizing the car involved at all):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WOW-O...3A1|240%3A1318
In the text:
"1966 OLDSMOBILE CUTLAS 442 EVERYTHING IS ORIGINAL NUMBER MATCHING CAR"
Okay lets see what follows:
"WAS BORN AUTO BUT HE TURNED IT OVER TO A HURST 4 SPEED
10 BOLT 342 OR 391 REAR END"
Hummm, neither the the trans nor the rear are original, and at least the rear isn't even correct. What's so bad about that? Nothing. *IF* he didn't say numbers matching.
Which brings me back to the question I always ask when "numbers matching" is used: "What numbers match what?"
My advice is that whenever you hear "numbers matching" (without an explanation of what numbers match what) consider that is only means one thing: the user of that term is uninformed.
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