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I'm in unfamiliar territory on a project car.
I purchased a 39k mile '64 Olds 98 from a Classic Olds.com member in AZ, who has since moved to NC. The car is CA black plate car from the Pomona area, and is now in Wisconsin. The car was sold at a private estate sale in California without a title in 2013 after the death of the original owner.
To transfer the car to WI, I need to get a duplicate CA title from the original owner, who has passed on.
I have a CA bill of sale, and a completed CA DMV inspection form "Verification of Vehicle" signed by a CA Deputy Sheriff. The AZ owner I purchased the car from never registered the car.
My first problem is that I cannot do an online title search because the '64 VIN is too short. I do not know if the bill of sale I have is in the name of a relative of the original owner, or a subsequent buyer.
Does anyone have any experience with this, preferably in California?
Many thanks, Jerry
Last edited by twintracks; April 2nd, 2015 at 10:43 AM.
Jerry, I have no experience with Wisconsin but maybe my experience in Texas can help. I bought my '71 with a bill of sale only and went through a fairly easy procedure to get a bonded title. I filled out a few vehicle title forms and then had an officer from the Fort Worth auto theft task force come to my house to see the VINs. He then took the paperwork to his database and verified it wasn't in any crime database (I needed him to do this because the state of Texas couldn't verify it was an in-state car because the VIN was inactive in the state, which is probably exactly the status of your car's VIN in Wisconsin). I then was able to get a surety bond (if you have a process like I went through in your state, a bond office should be next door to the county tax office or DMV) and pay my sales tax and get my bonded title. After three years the bond expires and the vehicle has a clear title.
I can provide better guidance if you would like, since the process is fresh in my mind (I finished the application for bonded title and submitted it to the state on Monday).
If only you lived here in Alabama. You'd be able to register your car with the bill of sale and be done with it.
That's all these title services do. They register the car in a state that doesn't have title requirements for old cars and they you can transfer that to any other state.
Years ago I purchased a car from a guy who got it from a estate sale. He obtain a title for me through the state of Main. I remember him saying it was the easiest state to obtain a new title from even though we were both located in New Jersey. I am not sure of the exact process but I found an article that might help you.
Good luck
The CA black plates were current until 2002. The estate sale was in 2013. I don't know exactly when CA stopped issuing black plates, but it could very well be the original owner. I sure wish I had some sort of contact info.
The CA black plates were current until 2002. The estate sale was in 2013. I don't know exactly when CA stopped issuing black plates, but it could very well be the original owner. I sure wish I had some sort of contact info.
CA stopped issuing black plates in mid-1969. Unfortunately, they have recently started re-issuing them.
The CA black plates were current until 2002. The estate sale was in 2013. I don't know exactly when CA stopped issuing black plates, but it could very well be the original owner. I sure wish I had some sort of contact info.
Didn't you say in your first post that car was sold after then original owners death? Even if you had his phone number and former address, I think contacting him might be a little difficult.
The black plates that are on the car are original plates that were issued at the time it was first registered.
California Legacy License Plate program will start issuing replica plates but I don't think they started printing them, I haven't received mine yet.
Your best bet is to try one of the title companies, or fly down to California, go to DMV with paperwork you have and register the car there, than transfer the title to Wisconsin.
One ought to be able to find some CA estate records online and hopefully make contact with the attorney that represented the estate for assistance/guidance?
... or fly down to California, go to DMV with paperwork you have and register the car there, than transfer the title to Wisconsin.
I can barely fathom how painful that course of action would be. My experiences with the DMV always seem to vary with whoever calls my number, and I am almost always needing to do something else or make a second trip. Imagine doing that out of state. I can just see someone behind that desk/counter getting confused and sending you away after not seeing a valid CA drivers license or something like that.
Again, I am not familiar with the process in Wisconsin but in TX I was not required to travel to any other state to get my title; I did have to have an inspection from a local official who verified the VIN (and ostensibly verified it wasn't stolen from another state). Once I had that verification and a few other assorted pieces of paper I filled out, I was able to get to the county tax office to pay my taxes and fees and be done with it.
So, are those places that ask for 900 bucks for a title legitimate and they do it through AL or similar?
That's pretty much how it's done.
Some Dealers have the ability to register cars in various states and sometimes do so in order to clean up a salvage title.
For me to register this car, or any car built before 1979, I would need to have it here so the VIN could be inspected by a local law enforcement officer. After which a form is filled out and signed by the same officer. That document along with the bill of sale allows me to register the car here. After that I can sell the car here or in another state, or move to another state and register the car there myself. If the other state has a requirement for a title they'll usually just title the car in my name. Now the car has a clean title.
I have moved cars that had no titles to Indiana and Kentucky where my brother titled them in his name using his address before selling them.
FYI, None of the documents get scrutinized very closely at my local DMV. I doubt you'd have a problem writing your own bill of sale and signing any name you like to it. So long as the car doesn't come back as stolen no one will investigate the documents.
Thanks everyone. I'm going to call the CA DMV next week. I won't be flying out there for this. However, I will be out there in June for the Great Race, so maybe that is an option.
My main problems are not knowing the original owner's name because of the recent sales history, and the VIN cannot be searched online, because of the car's age. Since it was last registered in 2002, it may have been purged from the CA database, which would require them to do a paper search.
If CA does the bonded title, that sounds like one way it might be doable.
The guy at the WI DMV told me they cannot do anything without a title. He said I never should have bought it. I hope I don't have an expensive rust-free, running parts car here.
I'll let everyone know, if there is progress.
With a bill of sale and verification of vehicle form you should be able to get a title, as long as the vin doesn't come back as stolen.
I could help you if you want. I am going to DMV Monday to renew my tags for my Cutlass, I can ask them what's needed as far as paperwork and send it to you. Fill it out and I could drop it off to one of the "VMD" places we have around here. They do all the footwork for a fee and they are also very knowledgeable. Probaly $40-50 for a registration and title transfer. Let me know .
Last edited by 70cutty; April 4th, 2015 at 07:04 AM.
Found the contact info for this VMD registration place. link on yelp. Call them up and ask for Susan, don't even bother talking to the guy, he has no clue. It's privately owned DMV for vehicle registration. Explain your situation to her, she can help you.
I used to drop my paperwork off and pick up my registration and tags next day. They helped me few times with cars purchased out of state, well worth the $30-40 fee. Let me know if I could help.
I have the same engine as yours Chris, 468, 9.8:1, less tightly built and guessing 425HP.
I cheaped-out and kept my OEM starter after I saw it was a Bosch branded unit. My battery is in OEM location.
An OEM starter back in the day was pushing up to 11.1 CR BTW.
Just fired up last week and it does fine. I will go hi-torque when I have too.
Since you already have bought a new hi-torque you still will benefit from all the good advice on cables from fellow posters.
Trying not to sound negative, but I live in Cal, and the DMV can be a problem. I don't know why, but Cal think they are there own country, and live by different Rules then the other 49 states, and they think they know it all, and will not look, or listen to any other states rules.Bought a car from New Hamp years ago, and they gave me a lot of problems, as it had current reg, and bill of sale, and they said I need a title, which they do not issue on older the 25 year cars, from some states. Also If the car did not have a non opt, you may have to pay all the back years, and a penalty? Good luck
This is a 3-4 year old thread and hopefully the problem has been resolved but being from California I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't. As I read the post my stomach tightened my head began to hurt and bad memories from the past returned. California is the worst state to get a lost or damaged title from another state resolved. This could be because more cars are stolen here than any other state and the DMV just makes it so difficult that the common man won't attempt to fight the buriacey. I no longer buy any car that doesn't have a current title just because of this it kinda messes with my Rat Rod plans.... Tedd
The government can be a pain anywhere. My mother gave me her Olds when she got too old to drive and signed the title over to me. She lived in Illinois and I picked up the car and drove it to Texas. When I went to license the car in Texas they wouldn't accept the title because the transfer hadn't gone through the tax office in Illinois. I had to go back to Illinois and transfer the title to me there and get their seal on it before the title was any good.
I've never had trouble titling a car in OK. Then again, I've never tried to register a vehicle without a title. A coworker who drives a 68 Mercury Cougar says he has a "title guy" that's a lawyer that makes it easy to register a non-titled car, but I haven't inquired about it.
I bought a California vehicle (not my Olds) off of eBay. The seller was not honest in listing the vehicle as having a 'clear title' and even reassuring me it had one after I ran a CarFax type report and inquired about liens prior to bidding. Once I received the vehicle, turns out it had no title. The original owner had died, things lost in the estate or similar. What I had to do was Google my problem to find that I needed to contact a particular DMV title office in Sacramento. Fill out some paperwork, pay a fee, send a self-addressed stamped envelope, provide all bill of sale documentation, and assure them that the vehicle had been trailered to my home/had not been driven since purchasing. This was a little over ten years ago. Things may have changed.
As it turns out, the person who sold the vehicle to me was basically a lienholder specialist and the State of California was happy that I provided all the accurate information as the seller did not report the sale at an honest amount. The excess amount over the liens belonged to the state I believe. End of story, I received a clear title.
I would tell you to be as nice as possible working your way through the bureaucracy of the California DMV.
"In order for WisDOT to issue a title for a vehicle purchased/received without a proper ownership document or a complete chain of ownership, we will require a surety bond as stated in Wisconsin Statute 342.12(3)(b)."
You all DO realize this is a thread from 2015 that someone resurrected, right? And frankly, I'm not sure how the process in Wisconsin applies to a question about California. Each state is different.
Yup, realize that from Tedd's comment but, thought that the info was important to anyone in said situation. The common denominator is California IMO.
I understand people want their home state to register their out of state title issue but, think it comes back to the state the vehicle was last titled in... California.
Even with proper docs including title, the paperwork can be a pain just taking a classic car from one state and registering to another. My vehicle still had to pass through a Theft/Fraud process which took a few months.
There's software to put a big warning saying you do realize this thread is old. It's even for THIS forum software. I even have mentioned it before. But, no one is interested.
Personally, I think people ought be able to put rounds downrange at DMV people as they leave for their cars each day if their service merits it.
If you look at the top left of every post there is a date.
Agree, but why can't the original post date be available to see before making a comment about something that was years old. What I mean is, why do you have to open the old thread to see the original post date.
Agree, but why can't the original post date be available to see before making a comment about something that was years old. What I mean is, why do you have to open the old thread to see the original post date.
Well, I'm responding to this post on my computer and the only way I can do that is to open the whole thread. Scroll down to the first post and see the original date (April 02, 2015).
I give up. If someone is willing to try to get information from an ad posted four years past, so be it. The poster most likely has never returned to see if he or she has had any responses to the post in years.
It's been resolved, and saved from scrap. I just had to talk to the right people in Madison. The local DMV was no help. His helpful words were "You never should have bought it".
I got a bonded Wisconsin title.
And I finished paint and body, and it's a good driver.
April 2nd, 2015, 10:38 AM
