Barsteel

Hello!

This is my first posting here, and I need some help. I'm seriously considering the purchase of a 1964 Olds F-85 Convertible with a factory 4 spd, and posi, and I'd like to get some opinions regarding price and potential watch-outs.

The car is a nice driver (based on pics) - has some bondo in the rear quarters, trunk has been replaced, but it's a runner with a recently rebuilt 330 (original), new clutch/pressure plate/throwout bearing, edelbrock carb, brakes, ball joints, exhaust, tires, rims. Inner/outer rockers are solid, and paint is decent - a repaint in the original color midnight blue, white interior that's all there, no major tears or defects, but there are a few splits along the back seat seam. Top is good not great, power assist does not work, but all the parts are there and the roof can be raised and lowered manaually.

The car is not local, so I cannot see it in person, at least not easily.

Concern - car is originally from WI (road salt!!), and the trunk has been replaced (stamped repop panel, looks like a nice job), and the floor has a few "small" patches on it (according to the owner), so I'm concerned about frame rot. Are there any places on these frames OR bodies/mounts that typically rot, and if so, where are they?

The car has also had a long, narrow sheet metal repair along the firewall, just below the body ID tag. The owner says that it runs a few feet, and was probably a repair to the pinch seam. Is that repair typical, or could it be indicative of a major repair. Current patch is very solid, as is the metal surrounding it.

Bottom line price is $8000. Fair? Not fair? My sense it that it's a good deal, based on what I've seen out there. Spoke with the seller on the phone, and he says that he needs $$ to complete a '51 Merc.

The seller has been helpful so far. He's going to have the car up on a lift this weekend and promised that he would take a ton of pics of the frame, body mounts, etc. He said that from what he could see, there are a few places that are flaking, but there are no holes or obvious rot that he could see.

FYI, I've been playing with cars since I was a teenager (I'm 44), and I'm comfortable doing major mechanical work, but I have very little experience doing body work. Yes, I can weld, but I've never done a frame off, mainly because I don't have the time or space.

I'd appreciate any help/opinion you could give me, especially regarding the right questions to ask about this car.

Thanks...

Chris
Monroe, CT

Olds64

Perhpas you should hire someone locally to look at this car. Maybe there is someone on our site that lives nearby that would be willing to do it for you.

I wouldn't buy a car without seeing it in person first. The price seems decent for a convertible in good condition though.

Barsteel

The car is in Atlanta (don't know exact address yet). If someone who reads this lives in/near Atlanta, and would be willing to help me out, I will be more than happy to pay you for your time.

Chris

cutlassgal

Welcome to our site! Jamesbo....... you're in Hotlanta.... you could help him out! And he's even offering to pay, lol!

Jamesbo

Howdy,

Find out where in Atlanta it is. If I can I'll be glad to help you out. But Atlanta and it's burbs is a big place.

Barsteel

Jamesbo - Just sent you a PM. Let me know if you can help.

Thanks...

Chris

Jamesbo

I'm trying to contact him . FYI, I know more about brain surgery than 64's

lshlsh2

This might be true but my guess is you can still spot rust and bondo. Probably the difference between a straight and crooked frame. etc

Larry

Jamesbo

Do you have a picc of the firewall repair? That alone would make me afraid of sum major rust repair sumwhar along the way.

Barsteel

Some pics for anyone interested...

Olds64

Oh yeah!

droptopron

I bought a car sight unseen once and was burned. Also had a nice new trunk floor. unfortunately, it was laid over the old rusty one. I implore you to get the car inspected before you dive in. The devil you know is better than the one you don't. If nobody is close by, check hemmings for services that do this kind of work. It could be the best few hundred you ever spend. BTW, it is a nice looking car.

Jamesbo

x 2

Bluevista

From what you've said the cowl was probably rusted out and with the trunk floor replaced and bondo in the quarters I wouldn't waste my time even looking at it.
Be patient, never buy a car sight unseen or under pressure, I've hired inspection services a few times and they saved me untold thousands.
You want the cleanest body you can get, you would much rather pay for it now than pay to fix rust later. Transports costs from rust free places are way less expensive than trying to patch a car back together.
Wisconsin actually does have some clean cars, I don't think they use salt in some parts? Lots of wagons there.

joe_padavano

Unfortunately, it's a crapshoot. I bought my 62 based only on photos and phone conversations with the seller, and it was pretty much as advertised. Of course, it helps to have low expectations. The seller did claim that there was a coolant leak due to a "rusted out freeze plug". The actual cause was a corrosion hole in the block. I don't think it would have been possible to tell the difference without dropping the starter, however, so I can't really blame the seller. It actually took me a while staring up at the engine to find the hole. Similarly, I bought my 69 442 long distance and it ended up having a hairline crack in the water jacket behind the starter. I also bought an 86 Chevy truck long distance, and the seller neglected to mention the cracked and poorly repaired frame (it had been an abused tow truck, which I did know about). That one, I'm pi$$ed about.

dc2x4drvr

Knowing from experience the rust problems with 64-67's, I would not even think of buying without an inspection.

Barsteel

Coldwar -

Here's a clear shot of the data plate. If you look directly under it, you can see a part of the repair.

Also, if you look at the engine shot closely (previous pics), you can see the repair along the backside of the firewall. It's kind of hard to see, but it's painted slightly darker than the rest of the firewall.

I have a member who contacted me who can check the car out. I also found a number of classic car inspection services within 30 mi of the car's location, so now I have several options.

I'll post pics of the underside/frame/firewall as soon as I get them.

Chris

Oldsmaniac

Flaking on the frame is not good. Typically the front part of the frame where rails turn out and back from engine cradle are the spots to check. Put your finger in frame holes and feel for loose flakes inside. Also tap on frame with a hammer. Soft sound bad, hard ringing type sound good. I am betting the frame on this one has rot evidenced by what has been done or needs yet to be done to body.

jaunty75

If you didn't tell me that was a repair, I would never have recognized it as that.

The Old Cars Price Guide lists the value of a '64 Cutlass convertible in #3 (car show/"20-footer") condition at $8100, which is right on what this guy is asking.

Collector Car Market Review puts the value of this car in #3 condtion at $7,925.

http://collectorcarmarket.com/menus/.../64olcuss.html


No car is perfect. This one looks gorgeous. Life is short. Go look at it first, of course. But then buy it.

slowolds

My opinion: Too much.

Having a '65 from Illinois I have seen what happens to hardtop cars. I would multiply that by 2x for a convertible unless it was inside all the time(which obviously this was not).
If the the cowl is that bad the windshield areas are likely to be as well. The patch job is a poor method to correct this (it really just covered it). That would make me suspect the trunk and also the extension/drop off area.
Would really like to see the floor boards and rear wheel wells being a convertible.

Very hard to get parts.

That being said, I you like it and are aware of what you are getting it is your choice. It could be exactly what you are looking for.

Very cool combo: blue/vert/4 speed!!! Could be a great car to drive.

"BEST OF ALL, IT'S AN OLDSMOBILE!"

dc2x4drvr

Are their pop rivets on the firewall? The firewall repair looks like ykw.

Aceshigh

Totally agreed.

He's right. Although I'd say more then 2x worse for Verts.

Convertibles do NOT fare well in the IL Winters.
My brother had a brand new top put on his 94 Z28 and it only took 3-4 years
before its rear window fell out because of the expanding, and contracting
from the heat and cold.

They have to be stored in garages or they get trashed quickly.
I'd run a hose over it with water to check all points of the top for leaks inside.

redoldsman

I would want a through inspection of this car before I bought it. Spending a few bucks for an inspection could save you thousands later. A car this age has to be suspect. Hardly any of them have escaped rust free. I also notice what looked like rivets on the firewall. Those did not come there. To me the back bumper looks crooked. It is pretty now but if rust starts bubbling up it won't be pretty then. Price looks like a deal if it is solid.

Barsteel

To all - Thanks for your replies. The owner did the brakes yesterday, and he was kind enough to supply me with some pics of the underside. To my untrained eye, the floor and frame look pretty solid, correct me if I'm wrong.

Again, let me know what you think.

Thanks...

Chris

Barsteel

Some more...

Barsteel

Last few

jaunty75

Buy it. Before someone else does. Or all you'll have of it are these photos!

citcapp

Looks very restorable to me but I would still have someone look at it for me if I were you

Oldsmaniac

Dude I may be crazy but looks like they welded additional supports to the frame!! Frame looks way wider than stock and doubt the factory cut a square around the original hand hole in the second picture. Run RUN RUNNN Away!!

Barsteel

Maniac - Ok, I realize that I'm NOT an Olds expert, but I do know that ALL convertibles have MASSIVE frames that are much heavier than those of, say, a post car, all for the sake of making the body more rigid. Removing the roof makes the body much more flexible, and requires a much heavier frame to compensate. If not, the car would shake, rattle, handle like hell, and have a TON of cowl shake. I see that the frame appears to have been reinforced, but it appears that the tranny crossmember was tied in, indicating that it was probably a factory reinforcement, as would be consistent with a convertible build.

Again, anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but convertibles MUST have a heavier frame than a regular post body car.

I'm going to have the car inspected, most likely on Weds, by another person from here. I've asked the owner to have the car up on jack stands, and I will post the pics when I get them.

Thanks to everyone for their input and opinions. I'm definitely getting the car looked at before dropping any $$$ on it. I'm really not in the mood to get screwed on a purchase.

As always, I welcome more comments.

Chris

Barsteel

Redoldsman - The previous owner of the car was an aircraft mechanic, so those are NOT pop rivets on the firewall, although they are a non-factory type of fastener. I still don't know why there would have been a repair on the firewall, but it follows the what would be the pinch seam pretty well. Also the data from the firewall tag matches the car itself, so I doubt that anyone swapped the tag or the cowl.

Anyone else seen a repair like that?

Chris

Oldsmaniac

Converts have a boxed frame but they are not massive. They are pretty much a regular frame with the open side in a non conv boxed in. My brother has a 64 conv and I have been under it and dont recall a frame looking like this one. I have attempted to fix a bad frame on a conv and what I ended up with was pretty much what is pictured here. Actually it almost looks like a regular non conv frame was put under the car and then someone boxed it in.... before or after it was installed . The big give away here is the rectangular notch around the factory hole pictured in a couple of shots. I have been under a LOT of Oldsmobiles and this one has a stench. If I am mistaken on this one you can call me out on it but I am pretty sure the frame has been molested or "repaired". Am looking out for ya for sure. I would love for this car to be solid!!

Oldsmaniac

Ok, really looked hard at the pictures and I am more convinced than ever that the original frame was scrapped and a non conv frame was added to to resemble a conv frame. Did a pretty good job too. You can see in the picture the non conv frame with factory holes in it for moving the crossmember. Conv have the perch to hold the crossmember and they rebuilt the perch factory style on the metal they re-inforced the frame with. The driver's front fender was originally the color of the replaced trunk floor. Looks like they grabbed a non conv and used a lot of the parts to rebuild the conv. Notice too how wide the frame is then when it gets to the rear it is normal size....skinnier. In the pictures you cannot tell how wavy the body is..... i dont think you will be buying this one. Prices too good to be true usually are....

ent72olds

Have to say, I too got burned buying a '67 vert sight unseen. I'm in the body business, so fixing the sheetmetal and replacing floors, wasn't an issue...what was, was the bad frame which I wasn't told or saw in pics! And the car was "supposedly fron AZ"! Needless to say, I lost a few grand on the car!

That being said, it's not atypical to have a trunk floor replaced in any '60s A-body car, vert or not! I have to say, the frame looked better than the rest of the underside of the car, which either is a stroke of luck, or like maniac said, maybe was replaced! If done properly, good for you! The repair on the firewall, is not professional! Actually, kind of ugly! Have the inspector check the install of the trunk floor for similar style repair! Pull up carpet front and rear, and have owner pull out rear seat bottom(very easy to do, and if he has nothing to hide, should be accomidating). Look for rot at base of cowl and front floor pan intersection, and inner rockers! If that is good, $8k seems like a nice deal...I paid $5k for my rot box 4 yrs ago, put $3k into it mechanically(yes, and that's doing most of the work myself), and because of the frame, did not want to keep the car, so sold it a year ago for $4,500! Yes, I disclosed every bad spot to the buyer...he is fully aware!

rockett

Barsteel, I'm in Atl, and would help you out for nada, Rockett