70 cutlass s

The only place that I have found the boots is a GM Dealer. They call them vacuum connectors. I replaced some on a 3800 about 4 months ago that's the dealer is the only place I could find them. At the junk yard their all cracked even if they look good you go take them off they crack. Yes that's the fuel regulator. Which your fuel regulator is fine, but if you loose vacuum to it. The regulator slows down fuel at the rail. So you would get to much fuel too the injectors. If that was happening your check engine light would be on because your evap. canister purge valve uses the same connector to work you would have a code saying purge valve not working. Ok back to your last question. If you have vacuum leak why would your engine slow down instead of speeding up. Ok well when you have a vacuum leak your loosing manifold air pressure. So you have not as much air going in the combustion chamber. So your idle would drop. The small vacuum line near the one for your brake booster goes to your heater controls. Well pretty much if your vacuum connectors are cracked they need to be replaced the only place that sells them is a GM Dealer.

Allan R

Thanks for the info on the vacuum boots and the idle. I'll head down to a dealer today and see if they can get me the 2 I need. Do you know of any reason why GM decided to block the upper port on later model 3800s? Most of the ones I saw at the wrecker only have the connection that goes to the fuel rail and purge.

RE: the small vacuum line near the brake booster. That's the heater/AC line? That would explain why when I took the lower valence off the dash looking for a vacuum line, I couldnt find anything. Everything under the dash looks like its "electronic". During the summer the AC would go from vent to Def a lot. Sometimes it would return to vent for brief periods of time when I hit a bump. I also noticed that this line may get some interference where the plastic engine cover tab extends. I'm going to replace all the rubber lines I can find back there just on general principle and see what happens.

Olds64

It is a bummer that you can only get those connectors at the dealership. Hopefully they will be reasonably priced. If they are expensive I would suggest manufacturing your own with vacuum hose bought at the auto parts store.

Allan R

Called my favorite "go to" Chev - used to be Chev Olds - dealer today to get the parts. You could tell that Andy was having a sentimental day. "Can't help you my friend" he said, "I'm just balancing the cash, and in 20 minutes we're all out of here and the doors will be locked". I've known Andy for probably 30 years. Whenever I needed stuff for my Olds, he was the man. Had 48 years behind the counter as of today.

Called the new "Chev Buick GMC" dealer. They had a hard time finding the parts on the computer. So they're going to send me a fax with a blown up picture to see if I can help them find it. Should be at work in the morning. If they can't find these boots, like you said I'm going to have to make them with a bunch of rubber hose and tees. I don't get why the 1995 Olds Series 2 seems to be the only one with these style of boots. Can't find them on any other car line, and I looked. I found others that were straight and would need to be adapted. I'll keep you posted.

On the bright side, thanks to 70 Cutlass S, I replaced the vacuum line for the heater controls and re-routed it a little below the engine cover shroud and the AC works perfectly on the vent position now. Thanks a million!

meoff....you got your ears on? Here's a wierd thing related to the IAC circuit. When I got home the car was running low in drive and park (650 and 710 respectively). Shut it off. Reset the IAC (key to run for 20 seconds, off for 10 seconds, start). The rpms were steady at 810 in park, put in drive and rpms steady at 750. For about 35-40 seconds. Then it went back to the low idle. Do you know what causes this? Is it the vacuum leak from the Fuel rail / purge connector or is it something else? As you know from reading the stuff above this, I don't have the replacement GM parts yet to replace the old brittle ones. Your thoughts?

Allan R

Good news!
I got ahold of a local Chev dealer. They found the pieces I need. Special order though. Total cost 15.00 + tax. Gotta wait 7-10 days for shipping from the US though. I'm really hoping this is the answer. Each time I do an IAC circuit reset, things are good for a short while. Maybe it's the slow vacuum leak?

In the meantime, I'm going to the Olympic Curling pre-trials starting on Sunday. The whole week - curling. Aside from Oldsmobiles, that's one of my other passions in life. And yeah I know. Most of you can't imagine why anyone would want to spend time in the cold when they can be on a beach in Jamaica. To each their own.....I still plan to hoist my share of anchors as I remember you slaving away at work

Allan R

Got the new "rubber connectors" as GM calls them and slipped them into place. Nice tight seals so theres no vacuum leaks there. Still the engine drops down to 660 rpm when warmed up and in drive.

Every time I do an IAC reset, the rpms work perfectly for about 30-40 seconds. This would indicate that the IAC is working as it should and creating the necessary artificial vacuum leak to maintain rpms. Why does it drop off after such a short time? This is confusing as the engine seems to want to run right. Is there another vacuum line that I've missed or is there something else I should try? BTW it's -30 up here, so I'm not driving around any more than I have to. I'm thinking of taking the bus/train to work until it warms up. This cold weather starting is really hard on the car, especially for short trips.

Olds64

At least the new "rubber connectors" were only $15 and not $150. It is always hit or miss shopping at a dealership.

You mention that everytime you do an IAC reset the car idles fine for a short time. I wonder if your IAC motor might be bad?

If one of the windings in the IAC motor is bad it might not be able to move completely. Perhaps it would be worth it to spend $10 on an IAC motor at the slavage yard to troubleshoot that theory.

Allan R

Hey Jesse,
I was happy the connectors were reasonably priced too. When I replaced the IAC motor, I assumed it would be good because it was new in the box. No reason to think otherwise right? I don't really have to go to the salvage yard again, because I kept the old IAC and cleaned it really good. I also tested the motor resistance on the push/pull cycles and the readings were excellent, meaning the motor is good. I actually didn't need to replace it at all. When it warms up a bit, I'll pull the new IAC and see if the motor is good. Only takes a minute.

Olds64

Oh, ok. Sorry Allan. I forgot that you put a new IAC motor on your car. If you have a new IAC motor out of the box then there is no reason to put the old one back on.

Have you checked the car for vacuum leaks with a can of starting fluid? I know it is hillbilly, but you might check around the base of the intake manifold for vacuum leaks.

Allan R

Thanks Jesse,
Might have to do that. The intake manifold gasket was just done a little over a year ago. Hope it's not that cause it was a pain. There's another possibility of adjusting the idle set screw I'm sure. Gotta check the TB where the linkage is. If there's a lock nut that I can undo to adjust the set screw from the other side (instead of breaking the factory seal from the inside) I'm going to try that. Still too cold to work on the car outside. I shift to N when at lights to keep the rpms reasonable with the defroster going etc right now.

I'll let you know what happens with the Intake. I 'm crossing my fingers and hoping it's not that....

Olds64

I had to do that last spring with the 71 Olds 98 before the new engine was in it. I know your pain.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Allan R

Ok, it was warm enough the other day to do some playing under the hood. Not lots, but some. Checked out the rubber vacuum lines. Huh! that's not rubber anymore. just touching the lines the surface is all powdery and grainy. comes off like charcoal on your hands. The lines aren't brittle, but maybe they've become porous? I think I need a bunch of new rubber lines for starters. Everything is pointing to a vacuum leak.

BTW Jesse,
I talked to a mechanic at the dealership where I picked up the connectors and he said the same as you. Spray some starter fluid around the hoses and seals and see if there's any bubbles. Musta gone to the same hillbilly school you were joking about.

When everything else fails, it's got to be the obvious thats left. The only thing that hasn't been replaced, repaired or cleaned is the vacuum lines. Just like you and 70 cutlass s were suggesting at the beginning.

Olds64

Definitely replace those vacuum lines. The rubber deteriorates with time and heat and will fall apart easily. The starting fluid trick works ok, the proper way to check for a vacuum leak is to use a Vac-U-Tec machines; however, those are expensive and alot of shops don't have them. A Vac-U-Tec has a vacuum fitting on it that you hook up to the engine, then you press a button and it pumps smoke into the engine. Then you check your fittings and gaskets for a smoke leak. They are AWSOME! I've used them before. The good thing about them is they don't cause a fire hazard like the starting fluid trick.

Allan R

Vac U Tec? Neat idea. Do they have a pot belly stove going nearby to get the smoke from?? Yeah, I know, they use a fog, sort of what I'm walking around in right now.

Decided I didn't want to work this week. The boss called around noon and asked if I was coming in. "Nope" I said. "Ok" he said. "Bye, See you next Tuesday ok?" "Nope" he said, "Gonna be on holidays, don't feel like working". Now how the heck is he being a good role model for me??? On the bright side, I don't have to go to a single seminar or meeting all week long now I just know I'm gonna pay on Jan 4th though.

Olds64

Don't worry about it. There is always more work to do. My motto is that tyring is the first step to failure, so why try at all?

BTW, I like your signature picture. I guess I should e-mail that guy with a few pics so he can do one for me as well.

Olds64

TTT, what is the word Allan?

Allan R

Hi Jesse!
Still waiting for the weather to be warm enough to work on the car. I have the vacuum lines, just need a place that's warm. The last 21/2 weeks have been pretty darned cold. This weekend shows promise: only -1 or so. I'm trying to talk a buddy into loaning me his garage to get this done. I'll be sure to let you know how it turns out. I'm really hoping it's the answer. One of the mechanics at work says that engine vacuum lines turn to crap after about 5-6 years and that I'm lucky this hasn't happened sooner.

Olds64

NO WAY!

I forget that you are up north in Alberta. This week the high is supposed to be in the mid 50s in OK.

Allan R

Well, enough is enough. It was warm enough to work on the vacuum lines last week so they're done. Not the solution. I've done what I can and I don't have an OBD11 to download the data, so I dropped the car off at Peters shop on the way home. It'll be inside overnight and he'll call me soon as he finds out what the problem is. He also has a toy 87 Cutlass that he's dropped big bucks into; body work and engine/driveline. Funny though, he suggested that if this is a big ticket to repair, a bullet through the block would "solve" my problems. He knows how much I've spent on the car, and I think he's getting concerned like a big brother would. Told him that the fuel door might be open when he gets to work in the morning. I was going to put gas in this morning, but the fuel release was frozen shut. Shouldn't have washed it I guess. Only -22 tonight. Tommorrow morning the WC will be -29 waiting for the bus. Thank God I don't live in Alaska where it really gets cold. I'm really curious to know what he finds. I'm hoping its not the ECM.

Olds64

I hope it is a simple fix. Keep us posted.

Allan R

Wellllllll, good news and bad news.
Good news first. The OBD11 confirmed the ECM, TPS, IAC, load sensors etc are all working perfectly!! The absolutely only thing Peter could find was that when the car was under full load the charging system dropped to 11.7 volts instead of the needed 13.9-14.4 That's the ONLY thing that he could find. The ECM could be bogged down with lower voltage. Could be a bad diode. So, it's going to be one of 2 things. I ordered a new alternator (145 amp output) from NAPA = $290.00 including core. Pete says he can get me one for about 180.00. Guess who I'm going to buy from? Buddy Glen at work said to put the alt in, then bring the car around the side of the shop and he'd load test the battery. If the battery is part of the problem, it's pro-rated for full replacement until the end of March.

Fuel pressure at the rails were both good, vacuum etc all checked out good!! I'm going to run some fuel injector cleaner through the system too in case they are not spraying properly. Could have one of them bunged up a bit?

Bad news, the car is still the same as before it went in. Have to install the new alt b4 I will know if theres any good news. And to make it more fun? Yup, daily temps should be around -15 or so with overnights at -20 and windchill. I just love this warm weather. Can't imagine how you guys put up with the heat waves down south

70 cutlass s

I have a feeling it's going to fix it. I hope they go ahead and replace the battery also.

Olds64

Allan, you will be cruising in style again really soon.

wolfman98

Since the battery is warrentied why not load test that first to see if it's bad? I remember having a canadian tire battery that crapped out 1 month before the full warrenty expired. they gave me a new one but not a new warrenty

Allan R

Well Andy and Jesse,
Your words of encouragement were well recieved. Unfortunately, the car is still doing the same thing. It starts great, warms up great, drives like a dream, has plenty of power, but idles like crap at a red light. I threw some fuel injector cleaner into the tank, and I'm going to take it for a run on the highway on the weekend to see if that helps. Certainly can't hurt.

Here's the scoop: I got the new alternator and spent about 40 minutes out in the cold (-14 by my garage thermometer) installing it. Now I have a cold to pay for it. Why the heck does the 3800 need an extra brace from the coil pack to the alternator mount? What a pain. And you have to take off the tensioner pulley to get that bottom bolt too. Found out my car doesn't have a diagram showing how to put the belt back on. So into the house, download a diagram, 30 seconds at the car and it's on. Belt looked really good - its only got about 35,000 miles on it. Not looking forward to having to change it though. I understand you have to loosen off 2 engine mounts and remove a spacer to git r done.

Wolfie; you were thinking the same as me. I have a CT Eliminator in the car. 3 year free replacement. Took the battery in and had it load tested. One of the cells was almost dead and it was only coming in at 600 CCA when it's rated for 1075. So they replaced the battery. Guess when the 3 yr warrantee ran out? Dec 18,09 not this March like I thought. Good thing I stll had the paperwork. Anyway I had to pay a prorated fee. They have a new program now, and I bought it. Works like this. For an extra 10 bucks, you get a get out of jail option. 3 yr free replacement is automatic. If the battery fails anytime after that within ***9*** yes nine years, you get another one free, and the guarantee on that battery starts all over again.

Anybody heard or seen from meoff? He worked in a dealership and had some information about an idle set screw that could be adjusted. Might have to send a PM to do the idle adjust. This is getting really ridiculous. I am so stumped on this, I feel like a one legged pirate at a high jumping contest.

70 cutlass s

Changing the belt is not to bad. Jack up the pass. side of car. Take the tire off. Remove the plastic cover in the fender well. Than remove the nut on the mount. Than remove the stud then the spacer. Then the belt can be changed.

Allan R

Thanks Andy, I'll file this one till I need to replace it. You make it sound pretty easy.

70 cutlass s

I can only think of three more things first a ? battery cable. Sometimes corrosion under the insulation close to the battery cable end. It will look like the insulation is bubbling up.

Allan R

Hey Andy,
1. Battery cables are both good = no blistering. I put no-corrode jelly between all mating surfaces to prevent corrosion. When the car is hot, it catches on the first crank. When cold it takes less than a second to start.
2. The intake manifold was just changed less than 10,000 miles ago. Should be good to go. When it was faulty it wasn't causing a low idle problem, just a coolant leak.
3. Tell me about this crack in the block. Is it a common problem? How would it cause low idle? There is a minor oil leak, and I do mean minor - a drop or 2 every day. Nothing that isn't cured by a quart of oil once every 2000 miles.

70 cutlass s

Well the crack is right in the cylinder wall. Its a stupid place to put bolt holes. I think you would have more problems than rough idle if your block was crack. Bad thing about where the crack is it will leak oil onto the oil filter so it looks like the oil filter adapter is leaking.

I pulled an 3800 on time a big chunk of the block fell out. I could see the side of the piston. That engine was locked up. I have seen it couple other times. I don't know if its common or rare. I know I have seen that same crack in that engine more than any other engine that has a crack. That I have seen. Maybe its just bad luck for me.

The only reason I said anything about it. I wanted to let you know everything that it could be. With a very little chance of a crack being the problem.

You said your going to use restore. When your car is idling in gear do you hear noise from the bottom of the engine. Like crankshaft noise. Do you have gauges or lights. If you have gauges what is oil pressure reading. Is the needle moving a lot when in gear and idling.

I keep hoping the best of luck for you.

Olds64

A compression check would be an easy test.

Allan R

Andy, the engine starts and runs smoothly and quietly. Theres no bottom end noise at all. When the oil is freshly changed, the car runs about 70 psi when cold, and about 55 psi when warmed up. As the oil wears down -around 2000 miles or so- the PSI drops to about 40. I have electronic gauges on the car. Also, I always stay with 10-30 as per the specs. I have used high mileage formula Castrol, but don't see much performance difference between it and regular Pennzoil. There is no fluctuation in the numbers, it holds pretty steady when idling or when driving. I've used Restore in the past and found it really helped with better fuel mileage. It claims to "fill in" scratches in the cylinder walls and temporarily restore lost compression to higher levels. Its not really that expensive either.

Ah ha, Jesse my friend
You probably havent tried to reach the back 3 cylinders of a 3800 lately have you? It's not hard getting the darn plugs out, but getting them back in? OMG it takes forever you have to do everything by feel, and even then its tedious. Last time I did plugs the fronts were done in minutes. The back ones were done in about 45. That being said, I certainly don't mind trying a compression test on the front 3, hopefully they will be a reflection of the back 3, but that's never for sure.

Olds64

Good luck with the compression test. I hope you have some decent weather coming so you will be more motivated to fight the compression gauge into the back cylinders, you never know what you might find.

Come to think of it, I do recall that the 3 rear cylinders on a 3.8L engine are hard to access when replacing spark plugs. I had a 93 Buick LeSaber with a 3.8L engine and I remember the rear cylinders being a pain!

Good luck!

rougebeats

Could it possibly be the knock sensor? Kinda a stab in the dark, but I know they can affect idle rpm.

70 cutlass s

Highly unlikely it should have a code if one went bad. P0325, P0326, P0327 one of those codes. The check engine light hasn't come on. The 95 and up 3800 have two knock sensors.

meoff

Hey there Allen.I'm very very sorry,I completely forgot you had this thread goingI had puter probs and changed e-mail#'s and then could not get back on the site and when I did I was hanging out in major builds and happened to be brousing tonight and seen your thread and clicked to see what the fix was and was amazed that not fixed yetI reread the entire post and seems to me you have been a trooper working in those tempsDrive er down here where we are in the +30*and will feel like a heat wave to you and send ya home idling where you want it!!heck in 20-30*temps I don't wanna get out and replace a power steering hose that's leaking on my work van so I just put a 1/4 quart in to fill every 3-4 weeks waiting for warmer weather
anyhow back to your prob.If it were me I would crank up the minimum idle!you may have a worn throttle plate shaft/TPS out of adjustment(I'm pretty sure on yours the TPS is set in one position and no adjustment is there) etc.quick easy way to tell is re-adjust minimum idle!first look where the throttle cable hooks to the throttle plate,you will probably have to take the little plastic shield off over the throttle and look for the screw that stops it when returning to idle.rotate it by hand with engine off and you will see a L that sticks out that has a screw that stops it.if you follow that screw straight thru it should have a little freeze plug that covers the adjusting end.pop that out,start it up,put in gear and allow the rpm's to drop to the lowest where you say should not be and unplug IAC,now the computer has no controll for idle other than injector pulse width and raise idle where you think it used to idle or maybe a hair low as you can always fudge it up a bit if you know your going in the right direction.this is now a new minimum idle!count how much you have to turn as in3/4 11/2, 2turns etc.and write it down so you don't forgetjust in case a ses light happens saying tps or iac then you know was self inflicted by the adjustment and can always go back to factory setting.hope this helps
again,sorry I forgot about ya!Oh yeah I almost forgot,shut it off and plug iac back in

Allan R

meoff!!!
So glad to hear from you. I was kind of wondering where you had gone to. As you have probably read, I've done everything that I can possibly do up to this point to get the old girl purring just right all the time. The minimum idle adjustment has been on my mind for some time now, and your suggestion just makes sense to me. When I had the TB off for cleaning, the plate was solid in place, and it seems to close and open properly on visual.

I understand the part for the adjustment you've described. Couple of questions:
1. Do you remember off hand which direction to turn the adjusting screw to increase rpm?
2. What tool do I need for the adjustment head? Is it flat blade, hex, or torx?
3. Can I do this without help, by just blocking the drive wheels and putting on the park brake? I don't want to get run over by my own car.
4. Is there a trick to taking out the freeze plug?
5. Does adjusting the min idle also affect the high idle when the car starts? Thinking the answer is no, but need confirmation.
6. Do I need to do an idle learn as per a previous post after making this adjustment, or will the ECM take care of everything during normal driving?

Did GM have this problem very often on their 3800's that you can remember? My mechanic thinks I should just let it run low until it throws a code, but I'm not inclined to let that happen.

Sorry to be so chock full of questions, but I'm getting excited about getting my idle set properly. I won't do anything with the car until after I hear back from you on those questions I put up. I might be able to get 442much to give me a hand. He has more room in his vvrrrooom room than I do, + he has a 3800 service manual for his Intrigue. Do you think a compression test is valid at this time?

meoff

#1 it is right hand threads so clockwise will increase rpm,after the iac is unplugged just leave it idle at the low and make adjustments while running and use your tach to adj where it used to run but set a little below and let the computor think it has a say so
#2should be a torx
#3 blocked wheels and parking brake is fine.if you can get someone to hold the brake would be better as it needs to be simulating real life as may be a booster problem(BTW does idle change when you hit the brakes and let off?) but if your on your own then wedge a broomstick or what ever holding brake pedal down!the IAC is out of the loop so the vehicle should not be idled up by computer at all.I have done this many times using just the parking brake but these were brand new when i was working on them!do not leave anything to chance.if something can go wrong it will-do not stand in front of vehicle at any time
#4 the freeze plug is a wimpy little guy,pop a ice pick in the center and push sideways and it pops right out!
#5 you are thinking correctly the IAC controlls the high idle and all you are doing here is not giving the IAC the controll of a unacceptable low idle.
#6 wouldn't hurt to do a idle learn but I think it will do fine without it

it never hurts to do a compression test just to know what you have,I would guess you are OK as you said runs smooth(for a 3800---I think yours uses a balance shaft)the older ones as my 1990 has a little rough idle that is normal as they were learning using aggressive cam designs and in your year put a balance shaft internally that eliminated the feel
OH I almost forgot-TAKE THOSE CHAMPION PLUGS OUT AND THROW THEM AS FAR AS YOU CAN!!put some AC Delco in there
little hint here too---The back 3 spark plugs aren't that hard to get to if you rock the car forward and set the emergency brake when the engine is tilted farthest forwardhope this helps

jeffreyalman

I am on the edge of my seat waiting for the outcome of this, what a cool thread

Allan R

meoff,
If I step on the brake, the engine speed drops by about 10 rpm or so, let off the brake and it comes right back up to where it was before. To me, that sounds fully acceptable, how bout you?

That is one slick trick you suggested for getting to the rear plugs. Fortunately I've got a sloped driveway, so it'll be easy to do. I'll give it a try. Gotta ask about the champion plugs?? They're copper cores and properly gapped - I never trust them to be right when they come out of the package. (I probably know better than to ask, but) What is the difference between AC Delco (the brand of choice) and the champions? I've heard that spark plugs are manufactured using the same processes at the same factories and just labelled differently. Don't hit me too hard with the answer, I'll accept it if you say they are just inferior. But I'm not getting how spark plugs can be so different.

Can't believe the super help everyone has offered in the search for fixing this problem. I'll have to wait for awhile before doing the fixes since the temp here is a little on the cold side for now and I'm just over my cold/flu - I hope. I'd like nothing better than to cruise down to your warmer climes and fix this idle and sip a tall cool one with y'all.

Jeffrey, Hold onto your shirt, we'll git r done asap so we can give everyone a sense of closure.

YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST!!!