Koda

I explained the issues and the fixes created. You can choose to believe it or not. Although your intent seems dismissive, I am very glad that you recognize that I am not saying anything that is not industry common knowledge, as that is all I am allowed to do. However, there is a big difference between industry knowledge, and the average American, including some here, so I figured I'd set it right. Also, you did ask me for the information.

joe_padavano

In that case, you probably don't remember the Audi 5000 unintended acceleration witch hunt either. The Toyota incident and the Audi incident were handled almost exactly the same by both the press and the gov't, and in the end, it was proven that the problem was driver error, yet Audi sales in the US suffered for almost a decade because of it.

My tinfoil hat comment really relates to the fact that you are giving the press WAAAAY too much credit. Toyota is probably one of their biggest sources of advertising revenue. They are NOT on a smear campaign - the press isn't smart enough for that. They are on a "build readership by appealing to the public's need for sensational reporting" campaign. And don't feel singled out. They piled on GM after NHTSA had a Chevy Volt start smoldering. The press conveniently forgot to mention that this particular Volt was being used for crash testing, NHTSA failed to follow the manufacturer's requirements to discharge the battery after a crash, and it still took THREE weeks of the car being parked in an junk lot for anything bad to happen. The story in the press (repeatedly) was "Chevy Volt catches fire", usually without those details. What about the Tesla stories? Kinda hard to blame Tesla if the wiring for the in-house charger was not installed properly by an electrician - yet the press just reports that a Tesla charger caused a house fire.

As an aerospace engineer, I see this constantly anytime the press reports on anything to do with space. Again, likely before your time, in 1984 the shuttle launched two communications satellites, both of which failed to make it to the correct orbit due to common failures in their booster stages. Both satellites were commercially built by Hughes Aircraft, both booster stages were commercially provided by McDonnell Douglass, and the launches on the shuttle were commercially contracted by the respective satellite owners (pre-Challenger, when NASA still did commercial launches on the shuttle). After the back-to-back failures, headlines read "NASA's shuttle fails to put satellites into orbit" - despite the fact that the shuttle did everything it was supposed to do and NASA had absolutely no control over what happened after that. It took about a week for the press to correct that to "McDonnell Douglas upper stages fail to put satellites into orbit" - which was still technically incorrect. It was another week before blame was appropriately attributed to Thiokol, who actually made the rocket motors that failed (not surprisingly, both were from the same batch). By that time the public had moved on and didn't care.

joe_padavano

I'm kinda with Koda on this one. The $17M fine is because the government MUST have the appearance of doing SOMETHING (whether meaningful or justified or not). The litigation settlement was a smart move on Toyota's part, as it got the whole issue out of the press much faster than by any other means. The lost sales from a protracted court battle would have cost MUCH MUCH more than that, even if Toyota had won (and frankly, while I think they could have won a civil suit, doing so would have made it necessary to point out that Toyota owners are idiots who can't drive, which wouldn't have helped PR either). Also, I'm willing to bet that the lawyers got $1B of that settlement and the plaintiffs split the rest.

Koda

I remember the Audi one, it was because of people standing on the gas instead of the brake when shifting into drive. Same root issue, people on the go pedal instead of the whoa pedal. I like my auto trans cars from before then, it's nice to shift into drive and have the valve body roll you into gear as opposed to releasing a brake.

Allright, I forgive you for the tinfoil comment for your reasoning stated. I DO think Toyota still does not broadcast ads on ABC because of the debacle though. Some things should not be forgiven. I do think we got an overly huge share of the manure over our stuff because of the time, with the recession and all, but I do remember the coverage you mentioned, so point stipulated.

Sorry, I got my time wrong, the side saddle tank event was not before my time, I had just not heard of it. I remember, being in FL at the time, the hype over the satellites, but that was nothing compared to Challenger a couple years later, like you mentioned.

Edit: "(and frankly, while I think they could have won a civil suit, doing so would have made it necessary to point out that Toyota owners are idiots who can't drive, which wouldn't have helped PR either)" .....that is beautiful.

oldcutlass

My contention is not with the facts just the conspiracy theory Koda. Again as Joe, I, and others pointed out history has shown that the media and the government does not pick and choose what events that get all the headlines or attention. It's just sensationalism not your stated conspiracy. Actually Jaunty is not known for a one word reply but in this case it was appropriate considering his alternative at times.


Idiots are not limited to Toyota drivers, I assure you.

Nilsson

Ford took loans, not bailouts.

oldcutlass

Ford financially had started to restructure years prior to the bailouts and therefore did not need government intervention.

Koda

Eric, I understand what you are saying, but I will hold fast to government-media collaboration, due to, without getting political, the metric tons of similar cover-ups and maneuverings this administration has done over the past five years. I have no issue with people disagreeing with me, nor with being asked for facts, but I do not care for online rudeness and, regardless of the accuracy of what I said, it wasn't warranted by standards of common decency that are typically used here.

I like this place, it is more stable, more towards restoration (my tastes) than racing, and much, much more polite than ROP, so I beg your pardon if I seem to place too much importance on "don't say something here you wouldn't say in person/in your living room/to your grandma" etc etc.

nsnarsk65cutlass

Yes they did for "green" alternative research or whatever you want to call it.Ford did not file backrupcy they made cutbacks, many Ford and Lincoln dealerships closed,warranty repair times cut were drastically.On the recall topic all auto manufacturers were required to have brake override feature,it started after Toyota deal.Remember the Explorer tire fieasco thats why they have tire pressure monitoring systems on all vehicles.Imo media over dramatizes any manufacturers recalls.