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Would my 66 have a vin stamp? It's an A-body. Where would the vin stamp be located? Those other numbers were on passenger side rear behind the wheel hump.
S = it's probably in a circle, right? Manufacturer is A.O Smith.
-44 = from what I've seen, this is some sort of sequence number which increases throughout the year.
0 6 6 66 = this is in a different format than what I've seen in later years, like 1970, which list the month and day of month and a 2-letter application code.
Would my 66 have a vin stamp? It's an A-body. Where would the vin stamp be located? Those other numbers were on passenger side rear behind the wheel hump.
That's interesting that Olds changed the location of the numbers from year to year. On my 67's, the stampings were all on the driver's side. The part number stamp about 6" from the end of the frame rail. The vin was on the same side, but on top of the rail, about 6" forward of the other stamp.
My VIN on my 67 is on top, drivers side before and after the rear wheel arch. On the side of the frame behind the arch is this.
PON 9 14 66 1, Does that mean Pontiac, Michigan? It has the correct VIN on it in 2 places.
Pontiac mfg. frame, date of mfg. There should be a weld joint on the side rail in front of the rear torque box, the "tongue" at the front of the crossmember under the engine is welded on, not formed in one piece, and the front mounts for the lower A arms are welded on. Smith frames don't have those features. Those were the two suppliers for Olds A body frames in that era.
The frame numbers are stamped on the outboard side of the left-rear frame rail, about one foot forward of the rear bumper. There will be two lines of characters. Post them for us. Please.
If not too rusty, you will also find your car's "protective number" (aka VIN derivative) stamped on the left frame rail, about 12" forward of the back edge of the door. Mine is on the outboard side of the rail, but some people report it's on the top of the rail (which makes it pretty much impossible to see with the body on the frame). Being a Lansing car built within days of mine, I suspect you'll find yours stamped on the side, too.
The frame numbers are stamped on the outboard side of the left-rear frame rail, about one foot forward of the rear bumper. There will be two lines of characters. Post them for us. Please.
If not too rusty, you will also find your car's "protective number" (aka VIN derivative) stamped on the left frame rail, about 12" forward of the back edge of the door. Mine is on the outboard side of the rail, but some people report it's on the top of the rail (which makes it pretty much impossible to see with the body on the frame). Being a Lansing car built within days of mine, I suspect you'll find yours stamped on the side, too.
This is great to know. I'll check this weekend when I can get the car up in the air. Looking forward to it.
Does anyone know whether or not the size of the font is the same for both locations? I did peek and couldn't see anything along the driver's door, although it has the same black paint the axle did...so it could be fun. However, I was able to view under the rear and see right away where the codes were. I will need to get a wire brush first though. My trustless Harbor Freight version died.
Does anyone know whether or not the size of the font is the same for both locations? I did peek and couldn't see anything along the driver's door, although it has the same black paint the axle did...so it could be fun. However, I was able to view under the rear and see right away where the codes were. I will need to get a wire brush first though. My trustless Harbor Freight version died.
With the body on it you are not likely going to find it. I took a quick look when it was on the lift and it is not going to be easy to find. It is in two places but up high on the frame in two spots. One is around the door hinge area and the other is in the door handle area and both on the driver side. Even with your inspection camera it will be hard to find.
The XU on the back is correct.
Last edited by jensenracing77; Aug 19, 2016 at 11:18 AM.
I think a little more difficult in my scenario because of thicker paint. I call it paint though because any undercoating I've ever seen has been rubberized. Maybe this is what the rubberized turns into over time.
I think a little more difficult in my scenario because of thicker paint. I call it paint though because any undercoating I've ever seen has been rubberized. Maybe this is what the rubberized turns into over time.
It can be found with the body on but not easy. To me it would not be worth the hunt because I can't see anyone questioning the frame.
Here is some interesting info on the frame numbers: I know of a claimed W-30 (no known broadcast card) that has the same exact numbers I posted, except instead of 10/7 it is 10/9. However, their VIN is about 500 earlier than mine, their cowl is a 10C like mine, and body number is around 1500 earlier than mine. So I have the earlier frame, they have the earlier body and VIN assignment.
3960733 = GM part number
Circled S = Manufacturer = A. O. Smith
271 = (see below)
10 7 = Date code = October 7
S 2 = 2nd shift?
XU = Application code = 112" wheelbase except convertible
The last three digits on the top line appear to be some sort of a batch number. I don't have data handy, but I've noticed that the number increments as the production year goes along. But many cars might share your number of 271. My guess is that A. O. Smith would build a large batch of one frame type for a day or a week and give them all a certain batch number. Then they'd retool and build a different frame type for awhile with a different batch number.
Is that the same A. O. Smith that makes water heaters? Thanks for the decode. What do you think of the info I posted above you? Or is it just like you mentioned before about some parts and how there was no FIFO?
3960733 = GM part number
Circled S = Manufacturer = A. O. Smith
271 = (see below)
10 7 = Date code = October 7
S 2 = 2nd shift?
XU = Application code = 112" wheelbase except convertible
Here is another one.
Where was the A.O. Smith factory. It looks like June 12 for mine which was almost 1 month ahead of the assembly day. I think mine was third week of July at Freemont. I am assuming the delay is getting it to the plant?
The last three digits on the top line appear to be some sort of a batch number. I don't have data handy, but I've noticed that the number increments as the production year goes along. But many cars might share your number of 271. My guess is that A. O. Smith would build a large batch of one frame type for a day or a week and give them all a certain batch number. Then they'd retool and build a different frame type for awhile with a different batch number.
Here is the place it is on top of the frame, and it is tucked up under the floor close to the rocker.
Yours looked a lot easier than mine would be. I have to grind though all of that nasty black paint/undercoat in my pic above, but it is on thicker in this area. And if I discover it, it will be a nice area of rubbed bare metal. Not sure I want to do that. I think I'm going to leave well enough alone. I spent about an hour looking but started to feel guilty once I got the wire brush going. Because everything looks like a VIN derivative when you have areas that are this thick. The good thing is regardless of where it is, it is well protected...just like the one on the rear. But thanks for posting what you had.
There was an AOSmith in granite city. They did make frames and at some point water heaters but they are no longer there. They would send out rail cars with frames stacked atop each other. Maybe 5 or 6 high.
There was (is?) an A.O. Smith plant in Ionia, Michigan. Seeing as how this is less than an hour from Lansing, I'm guessing that's where the frames for Lansing-built Olds came from.
There was (is?) an A.O. Smith plant in Ionia, Michigan. Seeing as how this is less than an hour from Lansing, I'm guessing that's where the frames for Lansing-built Olds came from.
Brian, I know this is an old post but it made me wonder if all Lansing cars had A.O. Smith frames?
Brian, I know this is an old post but it made me wonder if all Lansing cars had A.O. Smith frames?
Pat
No they did not. They were standard on 442 and W-31, and not listed as optional equipment on any A body in the '70 specs guide. It is listed as available on the B body as option code F-35 for $18.01. I believe in prior years it was available as special order on some A bodies.
Unlike a W-30 this is one way to authenticate a W-31. If a '31 has no docs one of the first things to look for is an AO Smith frame with the VIN. According to the specs guide that was the only way to get a Smith frame on an F-85 or Cutlass.
I have heard of some 442s over the years coming with standard frames and not with Smith frames.
It's interesting how the frame code chart from the '70 PIM makes no distinction between the standard "guard beam" and Smith frames:
Last edited by Rocketguy; Jul 12, 2019 at 02:15 PM.
I though A.O Smith was just one of the three possible suppliers of frames, are you saying the XU Frame is not what all 1970 cutlass/442's got?
Pat
No, but I am confused now. It is my understanding that the Smith frames only came on heavy duty applications like police cars, 442s and '31s. However, according to the above chart all cars with 115 wheelbase had an XU frame.
According to the chart:
The XV frame came on 4267 and 4467 models which were Cutlass Supreme and 442 convertibles (which would include the SX and W-30).
The XW frame came on 3535 and 3635 models which where F-85 and Cutlass 2 seat wagons.
The GU frame came on 4800 models which is the Vista Cruiser, and 00 is not listed on the body type chart.
The XT frame only says "116 WHEELBASE (EXC. S.W.) and gives no other information.
The XU frame says "112 WB (EXC. CONV.)"
That does lead one to believe that all 112 wheelbase cars had an XU frame, but again I thought the Smith frame was only for heavy duty applications so that begs the question: did all frames standard or Smith have an XU code? The chart only lists one part number for the XU frame; I would think a Smith frame would have a different part number than a standard frame.
I hope someone with more knowledge and brains than me helps out.
Some ordinary Cutlasses also had A. O. Smith frames. Fremont cars could have either Smith or Pontiac mfg. frames, so I imagine Lansing cars could too. The third mfg. was Parrish Pressed Steel but only for big cars. in 1966, 390504 was the part number for the convertible/F35 frame (Smith only). 390502 was the sedan/hardtop frame.
