GINCSC

Yes title is correct! How in the #^%^ this could happen I don't know. Here's the issue. the car is a 71 convert with a 350 with a/c. Just finished painting, new springs, shocks, a/c, and a tilt steering column.

We could feel the steering hanging up on something that's the issue.

We thought maybe it's the used column so we disconnected it from the rag joint and turned the wheel and now it's gone. So we looked further while we scratched our heads.
By luck there is another Olds in the shop, a 70 442 coupe. So we looked under it and noticed that the steering linkage has more clearance between the oil pan and the linkage. As we investigated further we found that the connecting point between the pass side motor mount and frame was the issue. Some where in it's life the frame on the motor side has been crushed or dented and the motor mount is about a half inch lower due to the dent and with an a/c car you need to get under it to see it and then it's still hard to see. So now the oil pan is touching the linkage just a little when you turn the wheel all the way to one side.

Solutions??? use steel plate as a shim? make a custom mount? pull the motor and cut the frame and weld in a new piece? of coarse cut and weld a new piece is the right thing to do. here are some pics the blue motor car is the 70 and you can see how flat the frame member is. the other pic is the issue car.

any suggestions?????

my budget is shot after buying the car and all the body and interior.
the motor is running great and I was going to drive it for a while before I did any motor work.

thanks'
Gary

GINCSC

here are the pics

GINCSC

bump

wr1970

Why not try a temporary shim to see if it helps the condition.Then as money allows correct it with a permanent fix.You can also have a custom motor mount made to raise the engine but it would most likely be a solid mount.You also need to be sure the steering link is not worn or bent. Alignment shop is my suggestion.

oldcutlass

What your trying to say is the frame has a kink in it bending down. Can it be taken to a frame shop and be straightened? Or, for the simple back yard fix I suppose some shimming will work. I'd pay special attention to the front end alignment when that time comes around.

wr1970

Maybe Joe Padavano will chime in he is guy who knows a lot.

GINCSC

Eric

the dent is only were the motor mount is bolted to the frame. or on the inside of the frame. the frame is straight on the bottom next to the lower a arm.

that's what puzzled us. how in the heck could it get bent or dented. maybe dropping the motor on it ???

the car drives straight and all the steering is fairly new

oldcutlass

I can't see the dent on the frame, but shimming the frame bracket for the engine mount is going to be a pain at the frame side. The fasteners are a bitch to get to even with the engine out.

wr1970

That is why i suggested a custom solid mount to be made until op has cash to fix it right.

joe_padavano

It's difficult to see in the photos, but that's probably the strongest part of the frame, so a dent as you describe isn't easy to do. The right thing to do is to pull the motor, level the frame, and check the height of the two motor mount bolt holes to the ground (or put a level across them) to determine what is really going on. For that matter, if you get the frame level, you could probably put a level across the carb flange and get close. Are you sure this isn't a collapsed motor mount problem, or a bend steering linkage problem?

GINCSC

fixing it right would take pulling the motor cutting out that section of frame and welding in a new piece of steel drilling the holes painting. I'm going to pull the motor sometime next year to rebuild so I don't see the use in pulling the motor twice.

GINCSC

Joe,
its hard to see in the photo but it is dented there. he has another 442 in the shop for reference that we can look at and its flat as flat can get in the same area. the motor has been rebuilt 20 k ago as I told in jan when i bought it. could dropping a motor do that you thank?

we are going to pull the mount tomorrow morning and look closer so i'll take more pics then.

thanks, Gary

mrhotrod

nice, well that was tough to do there and I hate to think how it was done but as long as the car drives straight and has no other issues with the frame. I would push that back out or drive it back up and if you cant get it all the way flush that area should be pretty flat there then add some shims under the frame bracket to get up close. you can use a level on the carb to get it set in place, I would pull the engine to fix it myself but you may be able to pull the mount bolt and raise that side up far enough where you can work at pushing it up through the opening by the coil spring. I think you may be able to use a big bar to drive it back up with a hammer. do not heat the frame to help it bend , you don't want to weaken it any.

Rallye469

I'm wondering if you could fab up something to pull that dent. Almost the way a gear puller would work.
Pull the engine, take off the motor mount, sink a BAB(big *** bolt) through a straight edge that lays across the higher undented area, lock the bolt into one of the motor mount holes on the frame and start cranking until the lower area is pulled out.
I'm just not sure the materials you can find will be strong enough to not bend.

just a thought.
-pete

GINCSC

OK, We disconnected the motor from the mounts and took off the side with an issue to get a better look. now we can see that the top bolt holes in the frame are bent in toward the ground and the holes on the bottom are bent just slightly in. we are going to drop the bottom A arm and see if we can hammer it back up through the access holes in the frame.

Joe, what do you think about heating it up if we can't get it to move by just hammering it?

RetroRanger

im not joe but if you can get access to it easily and safely heating it will definitely make it a ton easier to flatten out.

joe_padavano

I think heat is your only option. That's very thick material. You won't be able to move it with a hammer. What I would do is pull the motor, weld tab to the frame in the middle of the dent, heat, pull the tab, then cut the tab off and grind smooth. Alternately, make a plate that bolts to the motor mount holes and pull on that.

marxjunk

its not thick and its not tuff...it will move with a hammer and a block of wood or some brass..Ive fixed many, its a common condition...usually caused by the motor being dropped on the mount...

with the frame out of the car, pulling the spring etc out its wide open for repair..but thats a lot of work..if youre satisfied with driving it as is..id do that..if you tear the car down for a resto..then would be the time..


i have pulled the spring and contol arm out left the motor in..and used a porta-power and had some success pushing it up..especially if you can chain the car down to the floor with a floor pot..or i have used a concrete anchor and chained it to the floor and it pushes right up...of course a body shop would have floor pots or a frame mahine to hold it, and it would be easy.

it wasnt hot when it got dented..it doesnt need to be red hot to fix it...find someone with some old school frame experience....ive been a frame guy for 30+ years...ive seen it many times..fixed it many times to....use heat as the last resort..not the first...believe me its soft right there..you wont need heat..you just need someone with experience and the correct tools

mrhotrod

What Mark said .. easy fix don't worry so much lol and don't touch that torch to it ..

rcktdoc

I have done quite a few and its not that easy to access and make look right unless you dont care what it looks like. Engine will have to come out as will the lower control arms.It will need to be heated not just warm cherry red and yes it does need to be . Best thing is to use a wedge from a porto power also some steel pieces to take up the void between the wedge and the frame or wedge wont work, and a flat tipped bar to beat the area up from access thru the control arm mnt points, keep moving around until you get it up a little higher than it should be. Let it cool,then dollie it down flat. Keep working the area until its flat and straight,then you can grind high spots. This is just a simple explaination its more complex and time consuming but I dont want to write a book. Im surprised you even got the engine in or motor mnts to line up,Ive seen this more than a few times and that is usualy what happens.
Ive been doing this for 45 plus years and like I said if you dont care what it looks like when your done you can just beat it up cold. Ive done that and it looks like crap.

Greg