MudEye

Was told that I could buy a modern day distributor to fit my 67 supreme without the conversion kit. Anyone know of this?

oldcutlass

I know there are Hei's and points replacement kits kits available for Olds engines. There are also billet Pertronix Flame Thrower II's for Chevy, have not seen one for an Olds, you may want to call them.

brddg

MSD has made Olds distributors for some time now. They are pricey but you can't buy a better piece, fully adjustable and bulletproof.

s i 442

Get one off Ebay for less than $60, buy some new plug wires and hook a switched 12 volt positive wire to it and your done.
I buy them all the time for different cars, they work fine for me.

Allan R

What's wrong with the points distributor? If your engine is stock changing the distributor isn't going to do anything. Just keep it adjusted properly and you'll save some $$.

I think the unit you were referring to is called Pertronix

1970-W30

X2....

joe_padavano

If by "modern day distributor" you mean a factory-style HEI, yeah, that will drop in. You will likely need to match the vacuum and mechanical advance curves to suit your engine. While maintenance will be reduced, don't expect any performance improvement over a properly-maintained points system.

71rocket

The PO of my F-85 had an HEI installed when I bought the car, and a small air cleaner jury rigged to clear the dist. I put the points dist. back in along with the stock air cleaner. The car and I are happier now.

Ain't nuttin' wrong with points.

s i 442

Boy, the members of this site are 40 years in the past, maybe a set of bias ply tires will make it ride better, and don't forget to use on oil that comes in a paper can with a steel lid and bottom.

MDchanic

Okay, what advantages have you derived from switching to HEI?

- Eric

71rocket

We like the past. When I jump in my '26 T Speedster I'm living WAAAAAY in the past.................and on the edge.

Kennybill

I wish I could go to any store and buy that oil in a can, lots of zinc! The only benefit of electronic vs points may be at extreme rpm's out of the limit of most Oldsmobile engines. I'll pass on the bias tires. Jmo, Ken

oldcutlass

There are a lot of drag tires that are bias ply.

s i 442

Very low maintenance, bigger plug wires, larger plug gap thanks to the 50000 volt coil verses the stock 30000 volt one, getting stock oil filled coil off the intake, better idle , good step for future upgrades.

Make sure you put bias ply on the front also.

MudEye

[QUOTE=Allan R;710922]What's wrong with the points distributor? If your engine is stock changing the distributor isn't going to do anything. Just keep it adjusted properly and you'll save some $$.


Yes I was curious because this individual mentioned easier crank starts and smoother highway driving at higher rpm's and was wondering if anyone else noticed any marked performance. And the maintenance factor seems more appealing.

MDchanic

How many miles a year do you put on your car?
Spending five minutes setting the dwell every 2,500 miles must be quite an imposition.


Which gets you what, exactly?


Again, what advantage do you derive from this?
The recommended gap for points ignition is 0.035".
The recommended gap on my 2000 Jeep with a 4.0l six, with coil-on-plug ignition is also 0.035".
The recommended gap on my 2000 Jeep with a 4.7l V8, also coil-on-plug, is 0.040".
The recommended gap on my 2000 BMW is 0.032" (though the plugs come pre-gapped).
So, again, what advantage is derived from a larger gap?


Which helps in what way, exactly? Haven't heard of a spate of exploding oil-filled coils lately.
In fact, I have seen plenty of fifty year old oil-filled coils that still work just fine. Seen any fifty year old aftermarket HEIs that work just fine?


Okay, I'll bite. How do you explain this?
Idle requires the lowest spark voltage of any running condition, so it can't be the voltage.
Any chance you replaced a worn or badly adjusted points distributor with a good-condition HEI?


Tell me about those upgrades when you make them.
Nobody said points were better for high-RPM or high-performance applications.
Until you actually perform those upgrades, you're just wasting your money.

- Eric

oldcutlass

[QUOTE=MudEye;710997]There is nothing more reliable than a well tuned points distributor. It's easy to repair on the road, and 99% of the time repairable in 15 mins. Replacement parts are available at any auto parts store across the country.


Points distributors in stock configuration, are easily good to 5500 rpm. Do you plan on exceeding that?


Maintenance on a points distributor requires 10 minutes maintenance once or twice a year, set dwell and timing and your done. I doubt you'll be driving enough to have to replace parts every year.

MDchanic

[QUOTE=oldcutlass;711026]Actually, for those inclined toward efficiency, since you set the timing at a given dwell angle, if you just readjust the dwell back to where it was in the first place (if it has moved at all), you don't need to set the timing.

Dwell meter and Allen (or was that Allan? ) wrench is all you need.

Of course, I've always thrown the timing light on there "just to be sure," but if the dwell was set back to where it had started, the timing was always spot on afterward.

- Eric

brown7373

I agree with everything that has been posted. The claims of a "hotter spark" and "more power" are hogwash, just like the atomizer screen you put under the carb. You gain zero over new, properly adjusted quality points and condenser. But, many modern day points are made in China, or Mexico or Indonesia and are junk. Finding good quality points and condenser isn't a given.


I have used Pertronix for years with good results. The gain is ONLY, like a fresh points tune-up for long periods of time. When I take longer trips, I always carry a spare module, because if it craps out, you are dead in the water. Parts stores rarely have replacement Pertronix units in stock. I also carry a set of points/condenser and primary wire. That said, I have never had a module go bad in 20+ years and 10s of thousands of miles driving on numerous old cars.


The only application I can say I saw a performance gain was in a 1969 Corvette with a 350 HP 350, 11.0:1 compression and a 6000 redline. Points, would float above 5000-5500 rpms with points. Even the heavy spring points would wear out and float. The Pertronix cured that. But again, that was more of a quality of points issue.

oldcutlass

I've run points on all my old cars until this one. I currently run an MSD on this engine, and have a Mallory on the shelf as a spare. If I didn't already have them, I'd be running points on this car too. The only advantage I have encountered is that I can run a higher initial timing, 18-21*, and get 35-38* total without requiring any modifications except with my vacuum advance, currently not using it.

MDchanic

The engine in my car came with a Crane points eliminator unit, and I left it in.

It messes with most (but not all) of my tune-up tachs above about 3,000 RPM (needle hits a "soft stop" and quits moving up the scale).

Over the past couple of days I've been working on re-tuning it because I swapped the heads, and I've noticed the motor seems to "hold back" when I rev it over about 3,500 RPM. I'm not sure, but it sounds like spark, so I may swap in the set of Blue Streak points that came in a ZipLock with the motor and see if that cures it.
If it does, I'll let you know, and chalk another problem up to unnecessarily complicated electronic ignitions.

- Eric

s i 442

Its OK guys you just keep driving grandma and grandpa George and Martha to the "old country buffet" in your stocker and I'll keep "wasting" money on performance upgrades and show the guys on the street that Oldsmobile is more than a Sunday church driver.
I have never in my over 30 years of working on hotrods found a group more old fashion, anti-upgrade than Oldsmobile owners are.
I bet you still have the same air in your original spare because it means something to you? Fuddy Duddies suites you well.

MDchanic

As suspected: No concrete information.

Nobody here said that electronic ignition could not improve high performance engines. Obviously it can.

We're talking about stock and nearly stock motors here, and have made that clear.
Electronic ignition will not improve the performance of stock-level motors.

If your engine is modified, that's a different story, but you haven't said anything about using electronic ignition on modified engines, only that it was a "good step for future upgrades," implying that those upgrades haven't happened yet.

- Eric

brown7373

X2 Eric

redoldsman

Some guys like points and some like HEI. It is really just a matter of opinion. It seems this discussion always turns into a pissing contest. It sounds like some folks need to chill. Don't take it so personal.

MDchanic

Nothing personal - It's just that on this site we trade in facts, and Ive asked for some, and have not gotten any.

Without facts, it's all just internet rumor.

- Eric

oldcutlass

It's all 30+ year old tech whether it's electronic or points. Everyone has their own opinion and none are specifically wrong. All we are saying is fundamentally there is no realized gain with a relatively stock engine, run what you like.

Seff

Well, the theory is that a hotter spark makes for more complete combustion, which means efficiency.

For the record, I run 0.080" gap plugs with my HEI.

MDchanic

Fair enough, just remember that GM specified that gap for something like one year, then revised it much smaller, because of misfiring problems, so if you ever start to have trouble, regapping the plugs to 0.060" would be a good place to start troubleshooting it.

Also, my point was that if modern carmakers could improve power and efficiency with something as simple as a larger plug gap, they would have, especially with modern coil-on-plug systems that do away with the high-voltage wires, which are a "weak link," and prone to leak.

Frankly, if you were ever in the mood to play, I'd be interested in knowing whether you could detect any difference in smoothness and power between 0.040", 0.060", and 0.080".

- Eric

1970-W30

Tests have shown there is a ZERO horsepower gain up to 5000 RPM......

Seff

The plugs I'm running now are Bosch Platinum plugs (WR10FCY, IIRC) - I have the equivalent Bosch platinum plugs in 0.035" as a backup set for my old points setup. Could certainly test the power and smoothness between the two sets, since they're "identical".

s i 442

Please by all means run your points but don't try to convince anyone they are better than HEI because they are not in any way a better set up.

Seff

As much as I like my HEI: your arguments don't hold water, friend.

m371961

I see an advantage in that a parts replacer, (not a mechanic), doesn't have to actually troubleshoot a ignition problem. Just swap parts till it starts.
I like the fact that it is becoming a lost art to deal with points ignition and carbs and very proud I can fix them. I remember when every tool set had a points file and high performance distributors had dual points. You can pretty much diagnose point ignition with only a screwdriver.
To each their own. If you want to be real about performance ditch the points and carbs and go to computer controlled injection and ignition. Then just break out your computer and mutimeter when it has a problem.

1970-W30

If you like the looks of fat plug wires and can't stand the looks of an ignition coil on your intake, fine go to an HEI, but if you replace a functional working original distributor with an HEI thinking your going get a horsepower increase, you're wasting money.......

1970-W30

Here is an interesting link; http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...t/viewall.html


Scroll down a bit then click "view full article" then at the bottom is a chart showing gains or losses with an HEI compared to a points setup. Starting at 3500 RPM the points actually have a higher horsepower output over the HEI!

oldcutlass

The only issue I see with that article is that with an hei a lot of us run a much higher initial timing setting, from 18-21*. The 36* limit is the theoretical max advance for most v8 engines. Other than that, as we all stated there is no real power gain between them. I knew that a performance set of points will work for high rpms, the downside to them is they need to be adjusted and/or replaced more often due to the higher spring pressures.

Good article.

s i 442

So your saying bigger wire and hotter spark is not a performance gain in the combustion chamber?

oldcutlass

Did you read the article and look at their chart?

s i 442

I know you all don't read and performance magazines because it deviates from being totally stock but one artical says:

Performance Distributors says:
"We recommend converting to an electronic ignition on a musclecar engine over a point-type ignition system for several reasons. The first is reliability, as electronic ignitions are virtually maintenance free. Also, HEIs allow full alternator voltage to go through the ignition system, which with our 50,000-volt coil allows larger plug gaps for better combustion and more power.
Another benefit is simplicity-our DUI distributors are a drop-in installation with a one-wire hook-up. No external components are necessary thus eliminating messy wiring in the engine compartment. Most of all, our distributors are custom-curved for each specific customer's engine so engine-damaging detonation is eliminated, and it gives the most efficient combustion possible."