Ok, trying my luck here again, you helped me out on the transmission shift cable problem, now I am trying to fix another. After putting the '85 442 back together, hooking everything back up, I noticed that when I turn the ignition on, the check engine light does not and has not come on, but I do know the bulb is good. when the engine starts, it's running as rich as can be. For some reason I was thinking I needed to rebuild the carb, but I have swapped 3 E4CM carbs on the all factory 307 and get the same results. ruff idle, running rich, cannot get the timing to set properly at 20 degrees. I had the check engine light flash one time, and I mean it just flash for half a second while the engine was running on one of the carbs. I am walking back over the electrical harness checking connections. my question is this, after I walk the harness, what pin on the ECM should I check for power? on the carb, what should the voltage be on the 2 electrical sensors? with the engine running what should I check for as far as voltage? so, just in general what should I be looking for? greatly appreciate all the help I can get on this.

 

If there is no signal powering the mixture control solenoid, the spring pushes the solenoid all the way up. This pulls the primary metering rods out of the jets, causing the carb to be full rich on the primary side. If you don't get a Code 12 out of the ECM, there is a fundamental problem with the system. Don't waste your time trying anything else until you find and fix this problem. Step one is to get a Chassis Service Manual for your car and follow the troubleshooting chart for this problem. There is one explicitly for "no Code 12".

 

ok, well here is what I found out today. I checked all the power connections on the ECM, power at the correct points. checked the diagnostic port by jumping A&B. still no light. so I pulled the dash and there it was. the check engine light bulb socket fell out. so tested the bulb, put it all back together and turned on the ignition. check engine light came on. so I started it up and backed it out of the garage. the engine bucked and carried on for about 2 minutes then it calmed down and idled at about 1200 RPM. so I hooked up my OBD1 scanner but I guess there is still a problem some where. but, while it was running the engine light would flash in a dim mode. not bright, but barely come on and go off and on. it would do this for the duration of me giving it throttle. the scanner came back with "NO DATA". so I pulled the car back in the garage and turned it off. about 30 seconds letter the check engine light started to flash and a clicking sound from the engine compartment. counted 24 clicks. looked it up, speed code. after letting it keep clicking for about 10 minutes, the clicking got erratic and the light started to do the same thing it did out side. no other codes came up. so at this point I am going to buy the mixture control solenoid and a carb it and go from there. hopefully this will solve the ruff idle, black smoke problem

 

If you are still getting NO DATA, you are wasting your money on replacing the carb. The ECM will connect to the scan tool whether the carb is even plugged in or not. Again, do you have a Chassis Service Manual? If you don't use the flow charts in it, it will be pure luck if you happen to stumble on a fix.

By the way, the clicking under the hood is the mixture control solenoid cycling and that's normal. When the CCC system is in diagnostic mode, the MC solenoid is run at a fixed pulsewidth. If you are saying that you counted 24 clicks and think this is a code 24, that is not correct. The only way to read codes is with a scan tool or by triggering the CHECK ENGINE light to flash. If it isn't flashing, you aren't able to read anything.

 

Joe is 100% correct, you still have no idea what the actual codes are output based on your explanation... Clicking means nothing... You said you hooked up the OBD1, what info did it provide.... If you are not getting any reading with the scanner, then you may have an ECM issue, which is also why the light won't flash as it should... If you plan on keeping this vehicle, you might want to invest in a CSM...

 

ok, I will look into getting a CSM. when I hooked up the scan tool, and went thru the menu to retrieve data, I get the NO DATA on the screen, I have another cable and used it and still get the same results. NO DATA, it was when I turned the running engine off and left the ignition on was when the check engine light would flash. it flashed 24 times. that was why I let it do for 10 minutes to verify. i have owned this car since 2001 and never had this issue before, but then again, doing the body swap and taking little over 6 years.. I have a spare ECM, it is for a 83 307. do not know if there would be a difference between a 83 307 cutlass and a 85 307 442. but i will try it and see if i get a data reading from it. and i want to thank you for helping me with this and not treating me like a idiot. the car is not going nowhere, I have had it too long to give up now. i have put too much time and effort into this car. this is labor of love. and i do love my Oldsmobile's.

 

ok, when i pulled the ECM out, this was tucked behind it. i remember putting it there 10 months ago. as it was still attached to the harness. when i swapped bodies i just pulled almost complete units to keep from breaking everything into smaller pieces. now, is there a vacuum line that attaches to it

 

According to the photo below, it appears that connector should be attached to the Barometric Pressure Sensor and no sign of a vacuum line...

 

FYI... there are two service manuals for 1985 Cutlass... One is the standard chassis service and the other is electrical...

 

Would the barometrc pressure sensor be the precursor to the MAF sensor ?
Railguy

 

The barometric pressure sensor does not have a vac line going to it so you're good there.

 

CRUZN 66, Looking at the pics refreshed my memory. when I bought the 85 back in 2001, I remember going on flea bay and buying books for it. so this morning I dug thru some boxes of books ( I still have not unpacked boxes from moving to Pa from Texas yet) and low and behold there they are! so now no I will start using the books and try to figure out what is wrong the her. again, thank you all for your help

 

The EPROM in the ECM for the VIN-9 (85-442) engine is different from the standard VIN-Y 307... The actual ECM part numbers are also different, but can't define the functional difference where as the EPROM's are very specific to the engine type... Overall there are actually three ECM's & three EPROM's listed - VIN-9, VIN-Y 1st Design, & VIN-Y 2nd Design...

 

Based on the location, I would think not... All my G-Bodies have MAF sensors in the engine compartment, not under the dash where this one is pictured...

 

Nope. The baro sensor measures ambient atmospheric pressure. The MAP sensor measures pressure inside the intake. The computer subtracts one from the other to get the net pressure inside the manifold. They are essentially the same sensor, but one is connected to the intake and one is open to the atmosphere.

 

The EPROMs are different because the two motors have different cams, different timing curves, different A/C compressor control, etc. The carbs are different too.

 

Thanks Joe for the additional info to clarify my statement "specific to the engine type"... Although I already knew that, what I couldn't explain was the difference in the ECM functionality and how it would affect the engine spec requirements of the EPROM...

 

ok, just a quick update here. something I did today just to check. after this I will be in the book reading and checking step by step. I swapped the ECM and fired up the Olds. backed it out and it did not buck as much as before. I hooked up the OBD1, and got the same thing NO DATA. so I said the heck with it and took the OBD1 to my other garage and hooked it up to my restored show car. a 1983 Hurst Olds. 100% operational, starts and drives like it should and like it did 33 years ago. plugged in the OBD1, ran the data into it, and again NODATA! yep, faulty OBD1, broke out the backup and plugged it back into the 442 and ran it again. SUCCESS! no I am able to go thru the task sheet. the only problem is the screen is burned out in spots and hard to read. so getting numbers off of it is difficult. but I did get a code, just one code came up. code 21 TPS. This was all done on the spare ECM, I did not swap back to the original ECM. have to take the understandable and loving wife out for Valentines day dinner. but if she found out I plugged a crappy OBD1 into her Hurst Olds and messed it up, understandable will slightly fade away, lol. anyway, same thing as yesterday, check engine light slightly flashed during the idle test. on the OBD1, the rich-lean light would alternate back and forth for about two minutes then stay steady on lean. so, tomorrow I will crack the books and see what happens. again, thanks for the help

 

When you have a scan tool plugged into the test port, the CHECK ENGINE light is supposed to flash - it tells you the ECM is in diagnostic mode.

 

JOE. with the latest test I did today, I did not get a check engine flash. the scan tool I am using asked if I wanted to view fault codes, I hit enter and code 21 came up. I am looking into a new scan tool, but it is difficult trying to find a OBD1. I knew I should have bought one years ago. all I can find are OBDII and above. sucks to be me

 

They are still available.... O'Reilly's, Auto Zone, Sears... They do get a little pricey depending on what you actually want or need... Scanner vs Code Reader etc...

 

If all you want to do is read codes, use this "scan tool":



Bend the paper clip into a jumper and short the A and B terminals in the ALDL connector with the key on. Note the flash pattern of the CHECK ENGINE light. Read the codes. If you really do have a Code 21, that's the throttle position sensor.

 

Yep, used that before. I was just wanting to use a scan tool to get the reading of the car while it was running, MAP sensor and so on. not trying to get precise readings but just want to check variables of the system. warming up the garage and then taking the CSM and walking down the flow chart.

 

Then get one of these. This one is currently $15 on ebay. Actually, the $15 one doesn't include cables. Get one that has the cables and modules. If you can find an OTC 4000, that would be even better.

 

I had a friend gave me one of them back in 2004, I never used it until this past week. when I fired it up the screen was messed up. so I found another one on ebay, just the scanner itself. asked questions about and bought it for $10. got and fired it up, that was the scanner that all I got was NO DATA from. so being I used it and could read the screen, I got the other one out and was able to use it. but with the shape that the screen was in I could not read the numbers coming back from the map sensor and so on. I am currently looking at another one on ebay, but will look for that one. I have all the cables, books and GM card from my first one. thanks for the help

 

I don't mean to still this thread but know I m confused .I thought the maf replaced the map. I thought the maf was between the air filter and throttle body . Or is that what you mean when you say intake?
I forgot about the light that blinked out the code.
Railguy

 

I think you might be thinking of a different model car. the 85 is carbureted, no throttle body. and the MAP sensor is located on the right wheel well behind the coolant recovery tank.

 

Any of you live near the city of Howard in Green Bay? I found a OTC 4000 on craigslist, going to call about it. hoping the guy will ship if not, I will keep looking.

 

ok, I know that it has been 10 days since I last posted. I had to think about how I would word this. I started to go by the CSM, and then I found part of the problem. in the rush to get the car together and running, I had forgotten that I had put a catalytic converter bypass pipe on the exhaust system. when going thru the CSM, some of the checks go to the O2 sensor. and then it hit me, I did not put the cat back on. and to add insult to injury I could not find mine. so I had to wait on some money and order a new one. well the cat arrived today. so I put it on the car. I started the car up, it buck just a little bit and then it smoothed out and idle perfect. I let it run for about 20 minutes so the ECM and the sensors would start talking to each other. yep, the car just sat there and idle just like it did 15 years ago when I bought and just like it did in 2009 when I shut it down and tore it apart for this body change. I will let it run again this weekend for a good hour. I put a timing light on it and got the timing down to 24. 20 was a little ruff for it. now the problem I have to chase is this. when I put the car in gear, the engine stumbles and the rpm drops below 500 and then stalls out. but it fires right back up and idles perfect. so for the past 10 days I have been kicking myself in the butt about this. a simple part of the equation that I had left out almost cost me going out and buying a carb I did not need. never would have found it had it not been for the great folks here on this site. thank you all for the help.