Nilsson

And the American cars of the same period were all the above except dependable.

oldsguybry

Yea , I have changed my own transmission in the past to , but dont have the equipment to calibrate the dang thing on this particular vehicle , I would have to take it in to have this done anyhow.

76 Regency

You guys are right. Maybe I went a little too far back with the years because those are my favorite decades of American car.

I tend to think that the older cars are just as reliable as the "newer" old ones based on my own cars. I have had many 1976 Ninety Eight's for the better part of 20 years and NEVER ONCE broken down in any one of them. I think these are some of the most reliable and well built cars of any decade. Not to say they are perfect because that is not at all the case....there are definite issues but nothing that would cause one to say they're bad cars by any means. When I told people we were taking my nearly 35 year old Olds from Connecticut to North Carolina on vacation last year, they thought I was crazy to take such an old car so far. I didn't give it a second thought because I know I can trust the car. We're taking the same trip again in the spring and you know we're taking the same car!

I just don't see how a present day domestic could offer that kind of confidence at such an age.

TK-65

Yes, some were. But you could still buy a Trans Am with a 4 speed and a 400 cubic inch engine. You could still get a Camaro with a 350, a Mustang with a 5.0 (78 was the first badged as such). A bodies still had size and V8s. Toyota offered NOTHING but mileage and a never break down engine. Given it was hard to break an engine that only made 50 hp. I am not saying that the V8s of the 70s were great, they were the worst ever. But at least they were trying to give us style and sound.

Toyota and Honda offered no style, no substance, and to this day no soul. There was no joy of driving, no "Hey check me out" cache. They got you from point A to point B. A thing that they still do, and thats not entirely a good thing when its all you do.

Lady72nRob71

I guess I will post my beliefs, too, though most will not agree, but that will not change my views.
There are good and bads of doms and imps. Just like with toasters, radios, and everything else. Some are lemons, some are no problemers.
When we get lemons, we remember those clearly. My family has always more issues with foreign stuff, cars and TVs I remember the most.

1973 Zenith 25" TV - two repairs and still going.
1985 Toshiba 19" TV - three difficult to find problems, involving many parts i had never thought of needing replacement. Thing was recently trashed on repair 4.
1985 Magnavox 19" TV - Tightened loose remote sensor cable in 1995, still going strong! It was sitting on top of some big speakes, so vibration was the cause.
1998 Magnavox 36" TV - Still going strong also.
2000 Sony 36" TV - Picture tube just died - went to the trash last year.
1980 Admiral 13" TV - still going....

Cars -
1978 Pinto - Trouble free for 10 years, then little things here and there, something 'major' yet easy to fix myself every 10 years.

1989 Hyndai excel - Heater valve leaked in 1992, Tranny went out once in 1994, again in 95, car junked.

1986 Cutlass - Two AIR pipes rusted after 8 years, easy to fix. Power window switch and radio repaired in 97. Car was screwed up later by a moron mechanic who tried to replace the intake gasket as it weeped oil. Lots of issues after then.
A bad / cheap / incompetent repair job can easily make a good product into a lemon. Sounds like that happened with your Chrysler van. Many of those vans are used as taxis and i am sure they would not have been chosen if they has a bad tranny design...

1997 Caddy STS - AC compressor died in 2002, fuel reg in 2005 - all under warranty. No other issues - just routine stuff.

1999 Camryy - Front end buchings were wrongly installed - TSB was issued, dealer tried to hide it, ladyfriend had to threaten lawsuit to repair for free. That was 2002, 36K miles. Two years later the power window motor stripped - $535 there.
Fuel door broke off and clock died a few years later.
Quality? Not to me. Hiding defects? Foreign business practice it seems.
They still have not confirmed the WOT throttle bugs, many reoccuring even after being 'fixed' by new mats and pedals, some in front of service techs! Last I heard the rest were blamed on the drivers. A 10 year defect hide? Come on... After then, many more defects emerged - I wonder why???

2001 Galant - POS. Within 1 year: O2 sensors - $300. AC water leaked inside car, TSB was issued. $500 quote to fix - dash had to come out. I told her wait. Motor mounts loose - wait also. Cat converter was shot at 100K miles. Told her DON'T - cost was $1K! Car was totalled by an illegal tho still drivable. Next week the fuel pump died. I told her to have it towed to junk yard. This was at the end of its life no doubt... I am glad we stopped putting $ into it.

2005 Sorento - Turnsignal switch replaced, blows a tail light a month... Pulls to right. Just got it for the ladyfriend in Sept. She bought a warranty, but we will see what happens with it.

2001 Sentra with 120K miles - Within 6 months - AC compressor died $1.2K, cat converter $800, MA sensor $200, 4 O2 sensors, then coil packs (died randomly), car was traded. Another end of life car.

2003 buick century - Just basics - oil battery, tires.....

Friend's 1989 camry - too lengthy to list - engine has been out a couple times. Told her it should be junked. She is paying a monthly Caddy note to keep that running.

SO..... I will just take my chance at what I like. Challenger or Charger for now, but new cars unlikly since I cannot fix em. For this reason, and the cheapness of parts, older domestics make good candidates for me.
Still want that Vista Cruiser!!

Oh - rode in a new accord yesterday for lunch - very harsh ride. Totally claustraphobic in the back seat, a little in front with all the plastic wrapped around me. Solid suspension bushings??? Geez... Very jittery, almost sickening after a big meal. Drives as rough as my Pinto.

Got stuck with a 2009 altima rent car last year - it rode just as jittery. Made for a tiring vacation. Valve train was clattery at 38* upon startup and back window did not want to roll up easily.
The 2010 Charger I just rented rode like a Caddy compared to those - no issues.
Rented a 2009 Buick LaCrosse last year - drove like a caddy - very nice!
Rented a 2008 Trailblazer year before - very nice!
Rented a 2006 and 2007 grand caravan the past 2 years. One of those the gauges would die randomly and would come back on later.
Rented a 2003 Monterro sport long ago in 2003. Had bad brakes (light would come on down big hills) and the check engine light would come on when going up a hill cause you had to force it to go.
All these trips were 1.5-2 weeks, 1500-300 miles, so I got to see how good these were. Domestic was winning!

I remember having to give a lady at work a ride home TWICE because her new accord wouldn't start. She used to laugh at my pinto, but I made sure the last laughs were on her, esp. sice she rode home with me both those times. Another lady had a new mazda that would not start - ignition module. It was only 3 days old.

Bottom line, choose where your gut feeling is and be directed from there...

gearheads78

Coming from my point of veiw working as a used car service manager I tell you it does not matter USA or Jap. (or euro that get reeeeeal expensive) You can can spend a whole bunch of money on either. Even if you have the ability to fix something yourself its getting harder and harder to not have to still go to the dealer for programing. Everything is controled by computers that control other computers. You replace a electric steering rack (that fail a lot and are super expensive) and you have to have that manufactures sevice computers to program it to work. You have a window regulator go out it has to be programed to roll up and down. ABS light comes on it has to go to that manufacture. I could go on all day. New GM's are not even using TechII any more. You get a check engine light on on a new Equinox I have to download and wait for a GM online system to tell my the codes.

I used to not care about warranties and extended warranties but if I owned a 2-3 year or newer car now I would not own it without a warranty.

For now I will just keep driving my 200K mile 93 Corolla or my 219K mile 01 Dodge Cummins and fix what ever comes up.

jaunty75

It's interesting that you've had nothing but '76's. I think there's something to that. That was the last year of the six-year run of that particular body style of full-size Oldsmobiles. You kind of figure that by the end of the run they would get it right.

442much

Do we know today what is built in Japan and North America? I had a little Ford that needed a small part. Went to the Ford dealer and he told me to go see the Kia dealer. I told him to look at the car. It says FORD on the hood, rear hatch and the steering wheel, not KIA. He said the car is an import built by Kia for Ford. Can't even trust what's written on the cars...

I guess it all depends on what our expectations are, and in North America and most other first world nations, they are high. I'm sure that people living in the former Yugoslavia thought the Yugo was a great car. The Trabant was fantastic...if you were East German. We can compare, the Yugoslavs and East Germans couldn't. So it comes down to point of reference. They had nothing to compare their cars to. They were on a 10 year waiting list to get their cars and were very happy to have one.

In the 90's I remember a joke that was told during NATO's involvement in Serbia. It goes like this... "Did you hear about the Canadian F-18's that bombed the Yugo plant in Belgrade last night?" No. "They leveled the building, nothing is left but a hole." Really? "Yep, they say there was slightly more than $300 damage." I guess that's representative of what our point of reference was/is.

76 Regency

HAHA true. I did own one '75 but it wasn't one that I really drove much, just around town a little bit. I think the early-to-mid 70's were great because like you said, it was the end of the 6 year run and they really got things right mechanically. The electronic ignition is probably a big part of that too. I've never owned a car with points but if i ever do, I will probably convert to electronic.

It just seems like cars back then were built to be around for a long time, even if they rusted away, they would always get you where you going. Cars now just seem to be made for the short run and the wow factor with all the little gadgets that all break.

GoodOldsGuyDougie

Aceshigh
Haaa-Haaa what a Joke! . Cause JD Power says it so. Glad you live Far away from me. I won't have to worry about your High ranking JD Power Jap "Toyo-tee" running around with the Gas pedal stuck smashing into my American Cars. Oh and by the way enjoy your Toytota and Honda Classic Car shows. We all know how many people love the classic Honda's and Toyotas at Car shows.. Oh wait a minute there are no classic Jap and Honda Car shows! All those cars have been junked Long ago.

Aceshigh

LOL

Wait_Wat.jpg

Destructor

My cars are killed off by rust, except my 1970 Cutlass from the south. It goes to sleep in the winter. In the northeast it can get to the point where meticulous mechanical maintenance doesn't matter so much because rot will claim the vehicle while the drive train and other mechanicals still run fine and the interior will still be immaculate. That’s where depreciation is my friend. I’ll eventually buy another Grand Marquis relatively cheap only a few years old from a geezer and drive it for another 10 years until rust holes prevent me from getting a Soviet issued inspection sticker. My 07 Grand Marquis gets parked for the winter. I still have a few more years left to my 2000. It will run and ride beautifully to the junkyard.

jaunty75

I laughed out loud. What is a Soviet issued inspection sticker?

bil

I think it may refer to his living in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts,as it is often refered to up here. When I was in Europe I saw a lot of 'american' cars,all made there.Some looked pretty good,but small.Lots of pictures of Fords.On the other hand,we can soon look forward to that great old American classic,the Jeep. Brought to you by the US government and the good folks at Fiat.Made in Italy for import to the US. I remember when I was a kid,we used to make things! ---bil

442much

And saying that something was "Made In Japan", meant it was cheap in quality.

GreazyAnt

Baught 05 STS with 40k......Next winter Power steering fluid was everywhere. Looked under the car. Metal power steering hose had been replaced with rubber hose and clamps. When it got cold the fluid swole up and and popped the rubber hose off leakiing the fluid. I replaced the rubber hose wint new clamps (Tighter) it never came off again. Week later with a full amount of fluid the steering would go in and out. I wasnt sure what the problem was but a car that young shouldnt be having these problems. If I buy American it will be a Truck.... Dont know how i forgot these. ...Chrysler Concorde 01 85K motor locked up....Chryslers 2.7 had too small oil lines causing the oil to cook in the lines......00 Merc Cougar transmission went out within the first 5k miles... I was hard on the clutch but still......

z11375ss

Unfortunately you bought two of the worst cars made by American car companies in the decade. The Chrysler front drive mini van has to be the biggest P.O.S except for the vaunted Z24 Chevy. If I had to pick two cars that were worse I couldn't. The only one I can think of is an Olds Ciera diesel. Oh man, what junk. It's your money. Buy a Honda, put a blade on the bottom so you can do your lawn with it too.

66 Olznut

The warranty on my '06 Dodge Cummins just went out at 70k miles but it seems that the more I work that thing, the happier it gets! I'm looking into an extended warranty maybe since it's my daily driver for now. Even though it has achieved a best of 24 mpg, I want to save it for truck duty, pulling one of my 2 trailers. I'm going to be getting for free, a 1989 Olds Cutlass Supreme International coupe that a friend of mine bought new, babied it, put over 200k miles on it and the trans just went out. Everything else has been normal maintenance and has had Mobil 1 since new on the 3.1L. On a side note, I was at the LA Auto Show and I'm VERY impressed with what the Big 3 are coming out with!

Indy_68_S

You're in luck !
http://www.decalking.com/store/home.php?cat=397


To the OP (oldsguybri)...IMO you just happened to pick 2 of the worst domestics. Mopar T&C transmissions of that vintage are notoriously fragile/unreliable. Apparently if they're not rebuilt/tuned exactly/precisely right, they quickly self destruct. Cadavalier ? Eewww. I learned that lesson with an '82 Type 10 HB. Looked cool (for the time) but never ran right (had the astoundingly bad 1.8L...a motor so bad they pulled it mid-year and went to the 2.0) & literally fell apart by 50K mis (then primary trans drive shredded @ 55K - sold @ near scrap price).

That said, I agree with other that it seems cars built past ~ 2000 don't seem that great. I think it has to do with exponentially increasing complexity. With complexity comes more failure points.

There. Fixed that. My '92 V6 5 spd 4x4 ExtCab HiLux was insanely reliable/durable. New Tacomas ? Not so much....

oldsguybry

Correction...My wife did ...

DennisG.

Simple facts of life.

A - If you own a car or truck, you are gonna have a car payment or repair bills. Doesn't matter what the brand is.

B - Just like most any mechanical devise, cars break down sooner or later. Doesn't matter what the brand is.

C - You buy used, you never know how it was treated before you bought it. Doesn't matter what the brand is.

D - Buy foriegn and put an American out of work. It's the trickle down affect. Think about it. Even if you buy one used you are still supporting the hype and eventual sale of a new one. And NO, they are not made here. They are ASSEMBLED here. Don't believe me ? Check where most of the parts are made. Over seas. Just like alot of our domestics. Biggest difference is most of the profits from domestics stays in this country. And most of the suppliers for the automotive industry in this country make parts for the domestics. NOT the foriegn cars. Therefor saving American jobs when you buy domestics.

I don't believe all the foriegn quality crap. Just like anything, if you have enough people saying it, someone is bound to believe it. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. And a friend of mine owns a salvage yard, I've seen Honda's and Toyota's "quality" first hand.

kevdog442

A-but you just have a lot less repair bills with Honda's B- usually later with Honda's C- true but Honda's take more abuse. I love American cars they look cool and are more fun to drive but I just can't afford the repair bills for a daily driver. Oh and my Chevy Silverado was made in Canada.

Diego

You can laugh all you want, but the people who actually know what they're talking about - rather than thinking emotion as logic - are laughing at you.

Acura was a premium Honda branded with a different name for America to get over the perception that Japanese cars were cheap. Acura has done well for themselves, practically leading the world in FWD suspension technology.

Lexus took it a bit further, rewriting the luxury car book when Mercedes was complacent and resting on its laurels. In addition to creating a stellar product, Lexus changed the rules for service; when there was a recall for the inaugural LS in 1990 (?), Lexus turned the lemons into lemonade by taking care of their customers by picking up every single car and giving them a loaner. This treatment is continued today when you get your Lexus serviced - they will give you a loaner. It's no wonder Lexus is the #1 luxury brand in America.

Perhaps Detroit's biggest problem was hubris. Things are different today, but when consumers continue to be in denial about the competition (the imports), we - and Detroit - lose.

Where do you live? When I got out West, I see old Japanese cars all the time.

Really, my point is that the 1970s is when the Japanese started to thrive. The new emission and safety requirements were the last nail in the coffin for the American companies, while those practical people buying them furrin cars told their friends about the great gas mileage and excellent build quality. Who cares if they were ugly? Really, aside of some blips (GM X-cars, as an example), quality for GM started to get better after the intro of the 1977 big cars and the 1978 mid-size cars. It wasn't until the 1990s, however, that American brands were anything worse than "average."

CMitchum

Diego,

If you are seriously comparing Lexus to Mercedes Benz, then you really don't know cars. By the way "premium Honda" was oxymoronic until millions of $ in advertising made "people who know" believe otherwise. Leading the world in frontwheel drive? Ever heard of an Olds Toronado?

OK, I will agree that the Big Three themselves (and historic events) created the opportunities for Japanese cars to flourish here. Yes, American car makers looked down on imports. But that didn't make Japanese cars better, just gas sipping underdogs during times of rising gas prices.

I find that people that don't know how to work on cars favor Japanese imports. They are buying on faith and on what someone told them. They defend their choices lest they look foolish. It's almost like the Stockholm Syndrome.

American Cars were at their worst during the 80's and made Japanese cars seem like a good deal. In fact many bought Japanese as a form of backlash. I will admit that the worst new car experience I have ever had was an 84 Camaro. A whole generation grew up believing Honda et al could do no wrong.

I judge cars for what they are, not what someone tells me. I bought a 94 Z28 (after GM had learned their lesson) after seriously considering a Mitsubishi 3000GT. The 94 Z was/is FAR superior.

The originator of this thread said he was done with domestics. My point is this: All car companies are obviously not equal. If you think all American cars are inferior then you are not only wrong, but uninformed and illogical. The reverse is also true; I have never said all Japanese cars are junk.

Finally, if you want affordable hi-performance, American cars are by far the best right now. Nothing tops the GM LS engine. If you want innovation, check out the Chevy Volt and new variable timing Ford 5.0.

76 Regency

I'm with you Kevdog,

I've been driving Accords for about 11 years. An '88, '92 and currently an '02 I might be able to fill one hand with the amount of actual repairs on all 3 cars. I bought the first two with over 100K on them and I just hit 100K on the '02. Not only have I not had to make frequent repairs, but nothing falls apart on the cars either. Everything works as it should and they are 100% reliable.

I actually bought a '92 Achieva SC (directly compared to the '92 Camry and Accord upon its release) and that car had more problems in the 2 years I owned it than any other car I've ever owned and the "check gages" light was constantly on with no codes...btw, last I checked, gauges had a U in the spelling so there was a typo in the "idiot light" !!!

My wife bought a brand new Saturn Vue in '08. It now has 56K on it and has had a new power steering pump, TWO steering racks, a new radio and the wiper linkage just broke apart last week. The first time we had the rack replaced it took over a week for the dealer to get the part because it was so in demand....a common problem across the whole line of cars that use them.

I actually removed myself from this post because it just amazed me how upset people were getting each other. I really think people need to realize that people aren't buying cars because they want to be "un-American" or to intentionally put money in another country's economy. I'm a firm believer that the American public overall is much smarter than that and buy cars that based on reviews, personal experience, etc....not to mention the resale value. I actually sold my '92 Accord with 200K on it in 2006 for $2300. There's a reason it was still worth what it was at the time....because it still had many, many more miles to go....and btw, that motor and tranny were untouched other than fluids.

Trust me, I grew up in GM cars (my dad bought ONE Ford and still regrets it to this day). When I feel that the quality coming out of detroit has truly become competitive with what I've come to know as the standard for so many years, I will be happy to switch back.

Also, no matter what car you buy, aren't you still supporting the dealership you bought it from....paying sales tax to the state....paying the local dealer/shop/parts store for parts and/or repairs....paying the people in the factory that assembled it (since so many are built in the States and Canada).

I just changed the cabin filter on my Accord and all of the electronic parts inside the dash said "Made in USA". Still want to call Hondas crap?

Diego

Mr. Mitchum:

Go to any business school and they're using Harvard Business Journal articles on how Lexus kicked Teutonic ****.

Um . . . no.

The Acura Legend changed the perception of Japanese cars in America. It has nothing to do with advertising dollars - it's all about the product.

Is the Toronado built today?

It's not 1966 anymore, and the Toronado was not the only FWD car in the world - it merely used an American formula.

But here's the point you're missing - Acura leads the way in building FWD cars that handle.

No, the Japanese cars offered quality. Their cars were not falling apart. If it was as simple as an MPG issue, how did the Japanese companies retain their customers?

Those people used to be called "Chevrolet customers." Today they are consumers who are wary of having their car leaving them stranded. Certainly it's a tough perception to break, no?

I'd be willing to bet the 1970s were worse for American cars. And if it's such a fact that people bought Japanese as a form of backlash, could you show me the proof? And backlash of what?

No one believes for a moment that Honda can do no wrong. But when someone owns a Honda with 100,000 trouble-free miles after continued negative experiences with an American brand, can you blame a generation of Honda owners?

I don't think that anyone thinks that all American cars are inferior. But when someone's hard-earned money is at stake, he or she will think of the adage:

Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me.

GoodOldsGuyDougie

Diego says--Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me.

What a Joke! Maybe you should have bought something better than a Pinto if you wanted a Car to last 20 years.

You go ahead and buy your Foreign Cars and keep sending Money to Japan, China , Korea and all the other car makers that stole every good idea from American Car Makers. There also stealing computer secrets and more now. Really the ones on this board who are waving there foreign cars are better flags just sicken me and I'm sure a few others . Having Oldsmobile go out of business and now Pontiac while even Korean cars are sitting new on American Soil is really just pathetic.

Lady72nRob71

Hate to tell you but my Pinto is over 30 years old with over 155k and still going as a daily winter driver. After 12 years, it needed a few things here and there, most routine things, and all within the skillset of a lawnmower repair tech...
If it was giving excess problems i would get rid of it. No cancer, but is in TX.
It was well kept with close attention to PM. I am still surprised it survived after two teenagers beat on it. I am still wondering when the clutch or starter or ?? will go out...

These were actually good cars, despite the recalls of the 71-73 models with the narrow bumpers.
Most all who criticise them have not owned one or know one who did.
They made for very cheap reliable transportation - somewhat primitive, but they were the 'true' economy cars due to simplicity. The American VW Beetle they were often called.
My old car has given rides to several new jap car owners when they would not start. They had the last laugh for sure.

76 Regency

I doubt there's anybody out there, regardless of their belief of the best cars on the road that wants to hurt the economy. BUT I think it's safe to say that the average consumer buys a car (like most anything else) that suits their needs and is affordable to buy and maintain and holds it's value as much as possible. The reputation that the domestic cars earned for so long wasn't unjust. They turned out some terrible cars for a long time and have only recently started to turn things around. We could start another marathon long post about why Oldsmobile and now Pontiac (and even Saturn) are gone but it really comes down to poor management, style, design and marketing.

None of the GM cars are brand-specific like they used to be and they are now just "corporate" cars. It's great to see that the new Buicks are gaining popularity and are finally gaining momentum against the competition but they're not even Buicks! They're Opels!! And they started their lives with the intention of becoming Saturns before they killed off that brand too! So is that really even a Buick. So if you buy a new Buick, you're buying a German car.....is that any better or different than buying a Japanese car?? They're just cars with familiar badges on them, not the cars from the companies' glory days.

Diego

So what country got the money you spent on your computer?

What kind of computer secrets are they stealing? What else?

I don't think personal favorites have a say on what's best and what's not. What's best is dependent on your needs, among other things like the vehicle's performance.

I need to ask, though: Why does it sicken you that a car that meets someone's needs sickens you just because it's foreign?

And, speaking as a car guy, why can't I or anyone else appreciate the art of the automobile no matter where it's from?

What's really pathetic is that you blame the consumer instead of the company that builds the cars. It's also pathetic that you seem to think you can tell others what they should buy, especially in a free market system like what we have in America (and Canada). Most glaring of all, though, is your hypocrisy because I am sure yuor behavior as a consumer doesn't reflect your attitude on this board.

GoodOldsGuyDougie

Diego

You remark: What country got your spent on your computer?

None I built it myself! Not a Job for you I'm sure!



You remark:What kind of computer secrets are they stealing? What else?



My Reply:China is the #1 Bootlegger of American goods and software. I'm sure someone like you doesn't care about that.


You remark: don't think personal favorites have a say on what's best and what's not. What's best is dependent on your needs, among other things like the vehicle's performance.

I need to ask, though: Why does it sicken you that a car that meets someone's needs sickens you just because it's foreign?

And, speaking as a car guy, why can't I or anyone else appreciate the art of the automobile no matter where it's from?


I remark:Exactly why does a Guy who loves foreign cars come to a Classic Oldsmobile forum again? That's right I don't care for Foreign cars period. That's my opinion.You go charge up your Jap Car and sit in it till someone else appreciates it. You are no kind of Car Guy I would care to know and the very typical of the ones who blames buying non American on the 1970's.

You remark:Whats really pathetic is that you blame the consumer instead of the company that builds the cars. It's also pathetic that you seem to think you can tell others what they should buy, especially in a free market system like what we have in America (and Canada). Most glaring of all, though, is your hypocrisy because I am sure yuor behavior as a consumer doesn't reflect your attitude on this board.

My Reply: Really I don't think someone like you is capable of understanding my remarks in anyway. So I'll save myself the typing of a Civics lesson which you obvious are in great need of. Your not knowing about deregulation and how Foreign cars made in roads in the USA through back door deals and dirty politicians. A free market is not what we have in the USA anymore. USA Companies are ran out of business while China fills Walmart with garbage by the tons everyday., I guess that is your idea of free market. Pontiac and Olds were not ran out of business because of badly made cars. Its people like you that don't have a hint of what being a proud American is. So go by your Foreign Junk!.. And FYI-I Have owned 36 Cars and not one has ever been a foreign made Piece of Junk. (oh and don't forget to sing your "we are the world song as your driving that piece of Junk around car guy!)

nonhog

Built with US sourced parts ? Sorry had to ask.

A little heavy on the I'm good your bad thing don't ya think?

coltsneckbob

Well, we need to keep in mind also that American cars are in fact shipped overseas. We can't have it both ways you know. We DO want them to buy our cars. I do believe that some Fords are the number one selling car in China.

Like Nonhog said people need to find a car that suits their needs. In another thread I started in CO I mentioned that I was "forced" to buy a Mazda. It is the first Japanese car I have owned (in 40 years of driving), but I had no choice really. This was my wife's DD. We did lease a 2008 Caddy CTS that was loaded to the gills and I enjoyed it very much, but it was her DD and she hated it. We looked at other Amercian cars (she wanted something smaller and better on gas), but nothing fit the bill. Not even the Chevvy Cruze. The main problem with the Cruz was that the lease was $120 more per month than the Mazda and the Mazda had more features.

Is it my fault I had to go with Mazda.....well I suppose it depends how you look at it.....but if the American companies don't have a car that fill our needs or other's needs in this segment then that is their fault.

z11375ss

Damn Dougie, couldn't have said it better. I feel that strongly about buying American. All the bunk about it being made here and there means nothing to me. If I think it's made by an American car company I will like it more than the foreign one. I am looking at a Taurus SHO at the moment. I don't want to take on any debt, so until I can write the check I will wait. Oldsguybry I sure hope things turn around for you. So many people in trouble these days. It sucks. Merry Christmas you guys.

jaunty75

Can't resist getting in to this.

Who you "think" made it is hardly something to base any kind of intelligent decision on. Would you feel this way if the American-brand car you bought was assembled in Mexico by Mexicans, while the foreign-brand car you shunned was assembled in Tennessee, Alabama, or Ohio by Americans?

I owned a Dodge Neon once (a '96) that was assembled in Mexico. I now own a Nissan Altima (an '09) as my daily driver that was assembled in Tennessee. Yes, I know all about where the profits finally end up, but who is actually putting these cars together? Which WORKERS are taking home a paycheck in doing so?

It's a tough call nowadays if one wants to "do the right thing." The economy is global. Sticking your head in the sand because you don't like it isn't going to change anything.


I also, more recently, owned an '05 Ford Freestyle. It said right on the window sticker "80% U.S. or Canadian content." Supposed to make you feel good, right? But what does this really mean?

Well, first off, 20% of the parts the car was assembled with for sure were from foreign sources. The other 80% is vague. Depending on how you want to define "domestic", and nothing against our Canadian friends, this 80% "U.S. or Canadian" could mean anything from all of that 80% being American-made to all of the 80% being Canadian-made. In other words, that statement could mean that NONE, ZERO, NADA, ZILCH of the parts from which my '05 FORD Freestyle was assembled were actually American-made.

The car WAS assembled in Chicago, but it could have been from entirely non-U.S. made parts. How "American" would such a car be?

MN71W30

As far as the quality goes, we've been through this before. I remember the Harley Davidsons up until the mid 80's were primitive, obsolete POS bikes. People bought them, so they kept on making them. A 1969 Honda 750 was light years ahead of the HD's, BSA's, Triumps, Nortons's etc. It took many years, but it seems that The Japanese raised the bar and we were forced to fight our way back into the market. I think were moving in that direction now with the car industry. I've had good luck with Buicks.

stevengerard

I have always driven American cars and only once have bought a foreign car (sports car). My two newest cars are American brands both from 2004, neither made here , Canada and Mexico. I fortunately (knock on American white oak desk) have had no problems with either car as of yet, now both 7 years old. But I remember having nothing but issues with the 81 Malibu, 87 Buick, and 93 Ford. Every American car I have had up to the late 90s was an expected road side dilemma - either so old they were held together with tin cans or where newer pieces of sh!# (except my 1976 Regency never once failed me). I always try to buy American but even my mechanic who wrenches on more rare Hemi's in a month then I will see in a life time will tell you nothing beats a 5 year old Honda or Toyota for day to day reliabilty. I think the American cars are getting way better and are great looking as well as a great buy. I most likley will never drive a vette and have no real life experience with them but they seem to be the best bang for the buck right now don't they.

Most of my family and friends have foreign cars - Honda, Toyota and Volvo's - all seem to hold up very well.

z11375ss

Yep jaunty, totally irrational thinking on my part. If it says GM, Ford or Dodge I will buy it before I buy a Toyo or Nissan. I couldn't stand the thought of any of my money leaking back to the people who tried to wipe us from the earth with their Zeroes, etc. The Taurus I am looking at was built in Chicago a few miles from where I live. Got lucky on that one admittedly. How much "content" is from the U.S.? Don't know, don't care. It says FORD. I like the 365 horsepower too.

442much

Looks like the new generation Camaro and Challenger are foreign, they are both made in Canada.

MN71W30

Check out the new Ford plant.
http://apps.detnews.com/apps/multimedia/player/index.php?id=1189