Has everbody in this thread overlooked the fact that the oil the OP presented has a minimum of 1100ppm of ZDDP. Just because it is inexpensive does it equate to cheap, inferior oil? I bet it is 10 times better than the oil this car was filled with when born.

 

I noticed, Went to walmart and bought some and changed my oil. It has an sf rating and at least 1100 ppm. I bought this car a month or so ago. oil was changed last in 2011. (less than 1000 miles since) and was a quart low. I added a bottle of zinc additive while figuring out what to buy. Will update if I have a problem.

 

I sure would like to know where you saw SF having 1100 ppm of ZDDP. SF was designed for roller cam, catalytic converter modern cars, not antiques. My research states that only CJ4 has 1100 ppm of ZDDP in modern oils. It also states never put any S(X) in unless it has the CJ4 or CI4 if you can find it.

Be very careful about this!

 

If you are using 8 quarts of oil because you have an 8 quart pan you are making a mistake. Keep using good oil like Gibbs or Penn but cut back on the volume by at least 1 quart if you have an oversized filter & 1.5 quarts if you have a standard sized filter.

 

Ok, thanks. I did not know that, I was going by the size of the pan.

 

Ok, this is confusing...... The ACCEL label shown in the OPs picture in the first post clearly shows that printed on the container it contains at least 1100ppm zinc and that it is SF rated. Then somebody else states that can not be, SF oils do not have those levels of zinc, that only CJ4 or CI4 has those levels.....Then there is the posting stating that even the new CJ4 oils no longer have the high levels because of catalytic convertors used on newer diesels..... Can somebody clear up all this confusing, conflicting information.......What's right and what's wrong????

 

Just like I mentioned in my earlier post, more I read about oil more I'm confused.

 

Maybe because it says on the bottle????

 

Bingo!

 

SF: This performance category identified oils suitable for vehicles manufactured in the 1980-1988 period in North America. Once again the multicylinder tests were upgraded, adding evaluations particularly appropriate for smaller, higher revving, higher operating temperature engines.


I suspect that the 1100ppm found in this Accel was the amount of zinc that was allowable back then for street use.

 

I think we are fixated on zinc as our savior in preserving our pre 1980 cars. Oils have changed through the years and somehow we are stuck on the old theory that it has to have X amount of zinc or it will rune our engines. The oil industry has changed and so has the oils that we use in our relics. I personally don't care what brand of oil you use but at least read upon what modern oils have to offer before spouting 20 year old information. Things have changed... This is a long read if you are interested....http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/.... Tedd

 

Thanks, Tedd. I don't think I'd ever seen that site. It's exactly what is needed for these discussions.

I have not read it yet, but I will say that even for those who will never read it, it makes the important point that there is no simple answer to "Which oil is best?"
The answer is, "Read all of this, then ask again, and if you don't want to read it all, then that is your answer: There is no easy answer (in spite of what the salesmen say)."

- Eric

 

Just a few thought on the 540RAT link provided, for those that don't want to read all 44 pages. First, it reads like a Sunday morning paid program, very similar to the stock buying tips I receive in my email. Second, he repeats himself at least three times, painful. Third, all of his references are unnamed. Forth, his only real world proof that his testing approach correlates to engine longevity is a single circle track unnamed racer with a sbc living above 6000 rpm.

Eric, if you read all 44 pages from 540RAT's link you will find Lucas Break-in oil rated 136 out of 136.

Also note that ZDDPlus ruined all oils it was added too for WEAR PROTECTION according to 540RAT.

Prolong Engine Treatment had remarkable results when added to Pennzoil Ultra and Castrol GTX, but is contains Chlorine and can cause corrosion when added to the wrong oil.

Joe Gibbs oil 5W30 Driven LS30 Performance oil rated outstanding. 540RAT stated "This is by far the best Joe Gibbs oil I've ever tested" so if this is not the Joe Gibbs oil you are using, you are wasting your money. It rated 13 out of 136, very impressive.

Well 70cutty it better be the Joe Gibbs oil designed for GM's LS motors, because Joe Gibbs Hot Rod oil rated 63 out of 136 and Royal Purple was middle of the pack.

The most important Myth Buster was ZDDPlus added to oils ranked 120, 129, 130, while Edelbrock Zinc Additive ranked 132, 134 and 135 out of 136. 540RAT states that "So, if you are looking for outstanding wear protection during break-in, you will be disappointed with these oils, because they are not formulated tp prevent wear, they are formulated to allow the parts to quickly "wear-in", which is totally unnecessary."

For those that still think boutique oils are the way to go, 5W30 O'Reilly (house brand) @3.99 per quart cam in at #49 ahead of all Royal Purple flavors.

Cliff Notes:
5W30 Mobile 1 came in at #10 as the highest off-the-shelf oil suitable for street use. If you use Oil Extreme Concentrate additive it drops to #18.

0W30 Amsoil Signature Series 25,000 miles rated #12.

5W30 Joe Gibbs Driven LS30 Performance Motor Oil developed for GM's LS engines rated #13. So, if you like Joe Gibbs oil use this one because, "This is by far the best Joe Gibbs oil I've ever tested."

 

The VR1 racing oil placed (not street legal) placed in the top 14 spot and the VR1(for the street) placed in the top 16 spot with no special additives. The difference between the 2 is longevity of the friction pkg.

For breakin, I always use 4 qts of non detergent motor oil and 1 bottle of EOS, drain and change filter right after breakin.

 

The only scary thing about house brand oils, is the contract O'Reilly makes with xxx supplier can change at any time, and you could buy 5 different bottles and if you don't check, they could really be different oils inside.

I like the Accel Oil. When you break it down, it's not that much less expensive than Quaker State or any of the other typical oils on the street. We don't run them long in these cars, so I'm not worried about sludge. And it's got zinc.

 

All very important points.
I have just read the first few pages, and Wow, you are right on with the Sunday morning informercial observation. I don't trust this guy at all after reading that.


Which, as you can tell, I did not. Sorry, I've been too busy.
I was pretty sure I read the same page about two or three years ago, but now I wonder whether it wasn't the same or similar data surrounded by different verbiage.


Yes, but of course, you don't use an additive alone.


But you are not adding ZDDP for general wear protection, you are adding it to cushion the interface between the cam lobes and the lifters. All other interfaces do just fine without it.

That having been said, though, in your first quoted statement, one of the things you note is a lack of applicability of these measurements to real-life effects.
The guy who posted this information appears to have done some sort of lubricity testing that measures whether you can get lateral movement (or lateral movement without surface damage) between two blocks of metal being pressed together with a certain amount of pressure.
This is a fine measurement of lubricating power, but says little about the ability of an oil to function lubricating and actual engine in actual use, and his lengthy disquisitions on his imaginary playmate, the racer, are highly suspect, so don't qualify.

The only proper way to develop real information about how well an oil protects engines from wear is to study fleet vehicles, such as taxi cabs and police cars, in an organized way, with proper randomization of vehicles and drivers. Since such a study would have to be done with similar engines to ours (flat tappet cams, for instance), it could not be done on any modern fleet.
Failing that, studies that isolate individual aspects of an oil's job, as this one purportedly does, can be helpful, but no single one could ever be definitive. You would need long-term wear studies on journal bearings, which include typical amounts of microscopic debris and typical heat, speed, and load variations, for instance, as well as lobe-tappet interface studies and viscosity maintenance and thermal breakdown studies.

All of this helps to make my initial point, that there is no simple "one right answer" to the question of "What oil should I use?" - it's far more complicated than that, and none of us is qualified to answer it without recourse to an awful lot of data.

- Eric

 

I have been using Rotella based on a response I got from them a couple of years ago.

"Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oil SAE 15W-40 with Triple Protection
Technology, our API CJ-4/SM specification product, typically contains about 1200 ppm zinc and 1100 ppm phosphorous as manufactured."

I've decided my motor is broken in enough to switch to synthetic. Spoke to the Royal Purple company today and their 15-W40 weight has 1100ppm zinc and 1300ppm phosphorous, and its conveniently stocked at Walmart.

 

I learned several things that made my investment in reading all 44 pages worth it and they are:
- I will NOT be using any additives, additives usually wrecked the oil, but not always
- 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra API SM is the best oil tested without additives, but it is not available, API SN is what is currently being sold (newer is NOT better)
- Mobile 1 and Amsoil are the best off the shelf, but low in Zinc for me
- Joe Gibbs LS30 and Valvoline VR1 are next best off the shelf and have more than 1100 ppm of Zinc
- Accel was not tested therefore you must go by manufacture's claims and he states "Those oil companies are in business to make money,... as a result they will say ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING to move their product"

Pay your money and take your chances, but my new engine will have Joe Gibbs or Valvoline in it when is first fires up.

 

i just drained the accel 10-40 oil after a 15 min break in and a 20 min drive....cut the oil filter open and it was totally clean i just bought a case of the SF 10-30 and and will put that in next...so far so good

 

Good Luck with the Purple stuff. In my opinion there are better synthetics out there.

 

Is this the Accel 10-30? Where'd you find that? Does the 10-30 have 1100ppm zinc?

Is this break in after a new rebuild?

 

I used the accel 10-40 in my 69 HO as a break in oil i bought the 10-30 SF (1988 prior oil) also at walmart...i bought all they had and the guy said he thinks only the 10-40 will be available so monday im putting in the 10-30 now that it getting cold here

 

Interesting, my local Walmarts don't stock the Accel in 10-30. Oh well, I usually don't drive my car much this time of year. Only a few more cruises and she'll be sitting for the winter. Unless someone buys it.

 

Anyone able to find this oil at Walmart anymore?

I haven't seen it in local stores anymore. Just used up the last 5 bottles i had on my end of season oil change.

 

All my walmarts stopped buying it but I bought a few cases on amazon and paid a littletter more for it

 

I just found that too. It's not a bad deal on amazon. Walmart was better, but oh well.

Thanks for the reply.

 

I am defiantly NOT an expert not even studded on the subject! The engine in my 442 sounds similar to what 70cutty has, not a race motor but defiantly not stock. I use Joe Gibbs Driven because that's is what my engine builder told me to use, and that's good enough for me. Its also what he uses in has classic so I know he trusts it.

 

High zinc oils around here are non existant now. Most of the CI-4+ plus diesel oils have dried up. I bought up all the Quaker State Defy that was the old SL formula. I have a few oil changes worth. I may not bother using any special oil in the mighty 260, whatever is on sale will do.

 

Have any of y'all considered the fact that you could have just stuck a roller cam in instead of worrying yourselves to death about zinc content? Not to sound like an a-hole, but I'll never put another flat tappet in an engine.

 

I'm going to go with rollers on my 455 this time. They are expensive but pay it now in parts or later in expensive oil.

 

Right, but what about those of us with engines that still run okay, and haven't been rebuilt yet.

 

Valvoline VR-1. Reasonably priced and available at Napa.

 

Is there any data on run of the mill stock engines having camfailure? Most of these engines probably had many tens of thousands of milesbefore lower zinc oils were used. I use VR1 but I’ve owned my Cutlass since 99and certainly didn’t know about low zinc oils at that time. That was 25K milesago.

 

that's a reasonable thought but in my case with an original engine to my car it was important to me to rebuild it to factory specs with identical parts from 1969

 

Honestly, I believe the break in process and cam failure issue has more to do with the junk, Chinese blanks being used than the amount of zinc in the oil. I wouldn't be so concerned on an early 80's or original build. I run Carquest 15w-40 diesel oil in my 63 394 and my 85 3.8L. The 468 gets Mobil 1 even with a roller because I beat the snot out of it.

 

Those of you who have experienced wiped lobes - how high were your spring pressures?

For what it's worth, I run Mobil 1 New Life 0w-40 in my 352 (330 stroker). It's a mild engine, nothing special really. Spring pressure is 305 lbs open and I run it hard all the time (6000 rpm). I'm sure this oil is "too new" and lacking in ZDDP but I've cut open all oil filters since I built it (3 years, 2000 miles, 40 runs down the strip) and they were all perfect.

I don't know what to think about ZDDP but what I can say with certainty is a synthetic oil is way more stable than any mineral oil when it comes to viscosity. All mineral oils I've run in the past have had very fluctuating viscosity depending on temperature - run it hard/get it hot and oil pressure would drop. With the synthetic oil it hardly matters what I do/how hot it gets - oil pressure is stable.

 

Spring pressure was whatever stock, 1st gen E-brocks came with. Wiped an Erson cam.

 

I started running diesel oil in my muscle cars back in the 1970's.

Usually Rotella 15w-40, now adding ZDDP additive (CamShield).

NEVER had a problem with any engine.

Broke in 5 rebuilt engines over the last 15 years, no issues.

And Rotella is about $3 a quart on sale.

 

I actually burnt Rotella 5W40 when I blew a rad hose. I also had rings stick in my Olds 350 with Co-op diesel oil. I ran it because it had 1400 ppm zinc and the synthetic was Group IV base oil. I think additive package must have been an issue. Either way the old formula Defy I have saved up will go in my Olds with decent spring pressure.

 

I just run VR1 valvoline 20w50. I ran rotella for years with a zinc additive.