auto_editor

So I start my 'Cruiser this morning same as always, but as I make my way to the local grocery store I get slammed by the scent of raw fuel, and LOTS of it.

I pop the hood and on the left side of the engine beneath the carb there is a decent pool of liquid building up. I sop up the liquid--definitely gasoline--and zip over to my mechanic (close and luckily still open).

Seems my fuel pump sprung a leak and was pumping fuel out into the engine compartment (funny that she still ran fine, though) and has to be replaced.

Here's the question: I had all three of my kids in the car at the time, and all three wanted to know if she was going to burst into flames or explode. I've seen my share of (other people's, fortunately) engine fires, and thought that the little pool of gas that formed wasn't near an ignition source, so fire, for a while, was unlikely.

Then again, I'm not a carb guy and I don't know the literal ins and outs of a 307.

SO please, oh wise ones who my kids trust and demanded that I ask, what is the "official" word on how bad that situation was and what its likely result would have been if I ignored it. It wasn't running down the block (yet) and didn't seem near the exhaust manifolds, plug wires, etc., but still, I'm sure, the danger was there.

"Mommy wouldn't have a good Mother's Day if you blew us all up" they said. Out of the mouths of babes...

allyolds68

It's not the pool of gas it's the vapors. The chances of the vapors getting to the exhaust manifolds was pretty good. Driving it was not a good idea

MDchanic

I've driven cars with gas pooled in the intake manifold in the past with no problems - it just evaporates and is gone.

I guess I'd be more concerned about the pump actively squirting MORE gas all over the place. A bit of pooled gas isn't very likely to ignite, but gas spraying through the air makes for a nice mist that would make an impressive "WHUMP!" and a really fast engine fire.

- Eric

Big Blue 72

Agreed, that must have been a pretty good fountain to spray from the fuel pump to the intake manifold!

GTI_Guru

I've had to deal with a car fire, and a few other gasoline fires over the years. NEVER a good thing to have any raw fuel in a running engine compartment. The risk is just too great if anything were to happen to ignite it. If it were me, I would have popped the hood to the safety catch if I had to drive it to get more airflow to dissipate the fumes, and proceed slowly, to the nearest place to shut it down.

You did the right thing sopping up the fuel to remove anything combustible from the area, but all it takes is one stray spark, or a little too much heat from the exhaust, and you most likely have a fire that will at the very least cost you hundreds of dollars in parts to fix, and that's if you're lucky. Not to mention the damage most chemical fire extinguishers will do to an engine bay and your paint job. Figure in the response time for a 911 call to get someone to you if you don't have your own extinguisher, and that's more than I want to contemplate.

Very glad everything turned out okay, but if it were me, that's the reason I always have my AAA card. It's broken? Tow me home so I can fix it, or to a shop. Cheap insurance compared to some other alternatives.

-Jeff

Jaybird

Yes right. What they said. You are lucky to be alive and still have a classic car to drive and a couple of kids in the backseat.
This same thing happened to my '67 Olds Delta 88 Custom last year on my way to Lansing, MI. Thank god there was no fire, but it could have happened in an instant!
It is really not a good thing to see your fuel boiling on the top of your intake manifold, like what was happening to my car!
It turned out, the float was stuck.

Jaybird

Lady72nRob71

This is what I was thinking!
Sure it was not a leak from another location like around the carb inlet?
If it was the fuel pump, check the oil. If it is way over the full mark and smells heavily of gas, then change it. These pumps have been known to to let gas into the oil if they spring a leak.

rustyroger

Raw fuel almost instantly vaporises on a hot engine, I'm not an oil engineer but I think the ignition point (the temperature for spontaneously bursting into flames) is in the region of 250 celsius, an exhaust header or catalytic converter might well be hot enough to set it off. Its flash point (needs a flame or spark this time) is below freezing.
Guess you were lucky not having a bad plug wire, even a spark from worn alternator brushes might have been enough.
Glad for all concerned that nothing happened.
Lately there have been a number of threads about safety issues on this and other car forums. If it reminds any of us to make an extra check and avoid a potential accident just one time in a million they were all worth while IMO.

jensenracing77

your biggest fear would have been a bad spark plug wire. i have leaked gas in about every way you can imagine on hot surfaces and never had a fire. most ofter will not ignite without an ignition source. still would not be a good idea to drive it like that. the exhaust manifold would need to be leaking or glowing red to ignite it. still scary stuff no matter what when you are leaking around the engine.

Tedd Thompson

Had a similar problem with a Bronco 2 only one day after a complete rebuild, mechanic forgot to tighten a fuel line. Caught on fire when it stalled( lack of fuel to the engine lots of fuel around the starter motor)six fire extinguishers couldn't' put it out, burnt to the ground. .I was lucky to get me and any of my stuff out of the rig before it turned to toast.You don't need a open flame to get things hot and bothered....Tedd

MDchanic

This is why I won't pay someone else to work on my car.

- Eric

Indy_68_S

My thought too....since the pump is on the lower pass. side front of the engine. My armchair quarterback thinks it was more likely a fuel line and/or carb inlet leak.... I had a few of those on some Q-jet chebbies I've had.

AE, had something ignited, its doubtful the whole car would've been engulfed in a gigantic thunderous fireball. I think your worst case scenario would've been Eric's "WHUMP!" and a really fast engine fire. " You would've been able to bail out w/ the kids and watch it burn from a safe distance... !

In a similar gas leak vein....

Years ago I had a ratty '69.5 VW Karmann Ghia. The tank is in the front with a bottom outlet and a small rubber line from the tank to the hardline back to the engine. The rubber was old and would crack a bit where it just press fit at the tank nipple and drip a bit. Being poor, I'd just trim off the crack part and reattach. Eventually the hose got short and I had to add an old hose clamp to keep it on.

One Sat night I was cruising around and stopped at a light at a big intersection. The engine died. It cranked, but wouldn't start....Then I smelled the gas. I opened the door and looked down to see a growing pool spreading out from under the car. Of course, I had just filled up for the night. Panicking, I threw it in neutral, stepped out into the pool and slowly pushed the car around a corner into a lot...the whole time gas was pouring out and I praying some ******** didn't flick a smoke out of a passing car.

By the time I got it in the lot, almost all 12 (or whatever it was) gallons had poured out. I waited until it quit pouring and then pushed it some more & parked it so it wasn't sitting in its own puddle.

Then I walked home with seriously gassy shoes....

The old, & now too short, hose had snapped just past the tank...

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

Reminds of a story from my cousin. Not car related but gas related. He is into the wood splitting business, he bought a fancy wood splitter, close to $30,000 for this splitter. Any ways he figured he could fill the gas tank without it cooling down. He over filled the gas tank and it split onto the exhaust manifold. She went Kaa boom. All what was left was scrap metal and he was in the hospital for 2 weeks to treat his burns. Good thing for snow, put himself out, could of been alot worse. After when I heard this, I turn the machine off and let it cool for a bit.

auto_editor

WELL. That was interesting. Seems I/my family/my car have at least one guardian angel.

My engine/carb problems have caused a few issues with "driveability" and the like, including a RICH exhaust smell. Turns out that the fuel-ish smell that comes out her tailpipe was covering up actual fuel smell that came off the engine when warmed up.

The fuel pump 'splosion that sidelined her Friday was just the latest in fuel system leaks (though certainly the most dramatic). An old fuel line was weeping near the carb (the fuel I said I found "pooled" atop the engine) and the rest of the fuel line wasn't looking much better.

So now I'm $400 poorer but MUCH richer in knowledge about how a 22-year-old car should NEVER be without a fire extinguisher...

1965cutlassragtop

yes, raw gasoline hitting and super hot exhaust manifold would start a fire in an instant. it might not be a huge issue in every case of leaky gas lines, but definately a possibility for disaster.

that's why i always tell everyone....if your running a carb'd engine, DEF get fire and theft on your insurance, you never know.

1965cutlassragtop

i feel like $400 is kind of a steep price tag for that job. my holley fuel pump ran me about $100, easily installed it myself. plus some fuel line and an hour, maybe two, of labor?? just saying, u could have saved yourself some coin by doing that job yourself. unless you ran new hardlines from the tank to the carb, that would take a bit more labor.....but even still, $400 seems a bit high either way.


i paid $200 in labor for my tranny swap and floor shifter install.....

some mechanics just bang people, HARD!!!

GTI_Guru

Well, these days, it's somewhat hard to find any mechanics that will work on a carb, and harder still to find one that knows what they are doing. Carburation is becoming a lost art with fuel injection being on the market for so long now. If there was any major tuning needed to the carb itself during the repair as well as the fuel pump replacement, that's not an outrageously high price considering shop rates these days.

Also, if you got a trans and shifter installed for $200, you have one hell of a mechanic, and someone that treats you very nicely. I personally wouldn't want that job for $200, unless it came with some complimentary drive time included. "for testing purposes of course" as part of the deal.

And you're right about mechanics banging people hard if they aren't knowledgeable, but some friends of the family own arguably the most honest and reliable shop here in a small town, and I've known them for 25 years or so now. The headaches and overhead that go into keeping an operation like that going for a sole-proprietor are quite a bit higher than anyone would realize. Getting all the inside information on how something like that has to be run with insurance, electric, salaries, shop materials, tools, and all the other things needed to run the whole operation make it profitable, but just barely. They do excellent work at a fair price, and still people complain about all the little nickel & dime stuff when it comes down to it. It's so hard in this economy to make a decent living for yourself in the customer service industry. You just can't please everyone, no matter how hard you try.

-Jeff

1965cutlassragtop

I know what your saying....that's all the more reason for people to look at the simplicity of some smaller jobs and take it on themselves. My cutlass is my hobby, I try to do most of the work myself. Only larger, specialized, more involved jobs are taken care of by my mechanic. I will note that he works in his own garage at his house, he's got a nice setup with a lift, air compressor, tools, and he welds:-). Nice contact to have!!! I do know that $200 was a great price for the tranny swap which is part of the reason I could even afford the tranny. After all was said and done, I got a rebuilt th350, a hurst pro-ratchet floor shifter, and both installed for $1050...I did stop by one of the days he had it, helped when I could, and filled his fridge with a 30pk:-). I've gotten accustomed to his cheaper rates I guess. But I'm not complaining about that!!!

And believe me, I work in the wholesale food service industry, I know all about customer service and not being able to satisfy everyone. It's tough to make a dollar on people now-a-days. But for example...I needed a front axle, upper control arm, and bearings in my 03 Acura. I stopped at a shop that is known to specialize in foreign cars. They quoted me $900 for the whole job, claiming the axle, and bearings had to come straight from Acura and would cost $690 for just the axle, bearings and control arm. The rest was labor. Well guess what...I got genuine Honda parts on eBay for $325 and brought them to my mechanic to be installed for $275. I was shocked to find out how much money this first shop was gonna make on me. The only reason I went to them before my mechanic was because they had a good reputation around town and my guy doesn't really like touching some newer vehicles, just cuz they do require some extra time breaking certain components down for repairs, plus electronics start to pose some obstacles. But he got it done, after a few curse words I'm sure, and the car has been fine the past 2 years.

trackz man

When we purchased our 63 Starfire convertible the only way it would run was to have a gas can in the engine compartment with a rubber fuel line running to the fuel pump.

I replaced the fuel tank and rubber hoses along and inside of the frame. Everything seemed fine. I replaced the fuel filter-glass bowl type and some of the very old filter still remained in the top of the pump, but did not know that until I started the car up. It was spraying and draining fuel everywhere, but still ran. I finally figured out that the old fuel filter was still up in the top of the fuel pump. So I removed it. Started the car up-I was tuning it up- drove it up and down the street a few times.

Went to double check all the connections under the car and noticed there was fuel spraying out of the steel line that runs along the frame. I removed the steel line, after dumping fuel all over the driveway from the fuel tank doing its gravity feed thing,used a water hose to dilute it. Good thing DEQ was not around, and decided to go get a straight steel line at Napa, but then remembered that I had a Starfire coupe in the garage. Removed the fuel line off the coupe and then put on the convertible

Luckily have not had a problem since, but kinda scary with all that fuel everywhere for a while...

After all that- we had to replace the carb as it had been sitting for a while and was not reliable-A tremendous amount of fuel was being dumped down intake. Smelled like raw fuel out of tailpipe. We had a Rochester 4GC recently rebuilt by Don Monroe in Tacoma, WA. We bolted it up and have not touched any of the adjustments, right out of the box.