auto_editor

My days as an Oldsmobile owner seem to be drawing quickly to a close. I have been given the news that after EXACTLY 169,000 miles (like GM put a time bomb in it) my 307 is making the kind of "bottom end" noises nobody wants to hear.

[I took it in because I thought I heard lifter clicking. Who knew that THAT would be preferable.]

SO, I can either sell her while her engine is still working, drive her until her engine STOPS working and sell her, or pray to the Oldsmobile gods that there's a replacement engine I can find for less than the multiple-thousands of dollars a new/reman/rebuild engine will cost as I just flat can't afford fixing her no matter how much I want to keep her.

I've found a couple 307s (including "307 motor with new trans - $250"), but as there's really no way to know how good a non-installed engine is--and how much I DO know engine swaps cost--throwing good money (even a little) after bad seems pointless.

Ideally, of course, I'd replace it with a 455 or something awesome and go from there. And if I could afford an engine--any engine--I'd make it the best one I could install. But unless someone here has an inside line on a (small)budget replacement, I instead have a line on a 1989 Custom Cruiser in great shape but with a cranky (but virgin) carburetor and an ominous "clicking" sound during part-throttle acceleration.

[Wait. That's a conflict of interest. Why help me with the engine if you could just buy the wagon for less and do it yourself? Hmmm.]

I'm going to go cry now. Thanks for listening...

Drew

joe_padavano

And I for one would be interested in that option. Yours is much cleaner than either my 84 or 86 as a starting point. Does yours have the goofy seatbelts in the doors?

442much

Drew, follow the link http://www.car-part.com/ and fill in your location etc. If you by from a wreckers they usually come with a warranty. I bought a 2001 Aurora that was mint inside and everything worked, except it had (260,000 kms (160,000 miles) and the engine was dripping. So I gave the guy $800 and dropped in an engine with 65,000 kms (40,000 miles) for $1000 and voila, new car (so to speak). I had searched out the engine before buying the car. Good luck.

bulldog

Take time to think it through before you bail on it Drew. Do some looking around you might find something within your budget. Good Luck.

auto_editor

Nope, regular 3-point belts with lap belts in the middles and 3rd row.

[Man, I don't want to have this conversation, though you'd certainly be as good a groom as one could hope for...]

Drew

MDchanic

I'd poke around for a junkyard motor, or a motor out of a running wreck. They're out there, and you have the luxury of not needing to be too picky. Even one from another division would be okay, provided you could pull the necessary peripherals from the donor car.
You're just trying to keep her going until the time when you can do it right, and it is unlikely that the new motor will be LESS powerful than the 307 .

Keep your eyes open, don't be in a hurry, and something good will pop up that you can use, for a good price.

- Eric

dmcianfa

Or you could forego the corners you seem to be backing yourself into and rip out the motor and do an overhaul on it. Why is it that that is not an option for you? Often it is much cheaper than sticking money into a replacement that can turn out to nickle and dime you to death in the end anyway. Reworking an engine is not as hard as people think and most often than not you know someone to borrow tools from if you don't have all of them. If you bored it out you'd squeek more power out of it too and maybe add some hp with some other upgrades. Yeah, you might luck out and end up with a pristine 307 for $250, but more often then not something pops up with these motors and you find out they were priced that way for a reason anyway.

Besides, you would have something to do in your spare time and maybe make it a fun project with your son/daughter and teach him/her something. Or you could just diagnose more and find out exactly what needs work and maybe get away with not ripping it out to save some moolah. I'm not sure exactly what's wrong with your motor, but sometimes it ends up being just a top end or bottom end componant change with less or the same amount of work as changing the motor out completely anyway. Plus, you still have the original numbers matching motor in for that much desired authenticity 25 years from now. Just my two cents, but maybe you don't have the luxury or time and need a quick fix. If I were anywhere close to you I'd come give you a hand, but alas I'm accross da lake eh.

BlackGold

First thing I'd do is get a second opinion on those "bottom-end noises."

Second, as you know, they aren't making wagons like that any more. If the car is in good enough shape (the body and chassis are not a money pit) and you really like it (seems you do), it's worth finding a way to fix it. Fixing the car you own is (almost) ALWAYS cheaper than buying a new car, even if that new car is used. I don't know about you, but it seems I always dump one or two grand into any used car I buy before I consider it reliable and "mine."

I've heard lots of stories of people driving olds with a rod knock for thousands more miles and many more years. I suggest you consider doing just that (limit the rpms, don't hold th pedal down to the floor). In the mean time, find a 350 (preferably '68 - 72) and rebuild it. That won't cost any more than rebuilding your 307.

Higgins

Definately get a second opinion. Lifter noise and a rod knock sound quite different. An engine swap is really pretty easy. Just a matter of unhooking everything llike the exhaust & driveshaft, lift the engine and transmission out together, you can rent a hoist by the day, then replace it in the reverse. Read about how to do it before you start. You might just suprise yourself about how capable you are to do this.

Rickman48

I agree with the 69-70 rebuild - when the 307 dies, it's a bolt-in!!
Double your HP - double the fun!!!

lshlsh2

I got rid of my 85 wagon, still regret it. I should have parked in the back yard on blocks. I needed the money at the time for a (new) car.
Larry

MDchanic

Now that you mention it, I had a rod knock in a Z-code 390 in a '68 Colony Park wagon I had in college ($25 car) with 165,000 miles. I drove it like I stole it, for over a year, never had a problem, and it was finally done in when it was rear-ended while parked, destroying the tailgate and associated parts, which were essentially unobtainable back in the pre-internet age.

I wish I'd kept that one, too, used to blow off Camaros in it .

- Eric

Lady72nRob71

I have heard of others' success at replacing the 307 with a 69-72 350 motor. Direct bolt-in for the cars (and I think the wagons). Some even added in all the emission crap from the 307 and the computer played well with it, passing emsssion tests as if it was a 307. There are some good threads on here about the 307 to 350 conversions.
The nice thing is that there is a nice addition of power, too!
Totally stealth if you paint the block black...

Oldsguy

350 for 307 swap would be my vote. Find one that is in good shape and re-use all the accessories. As others have said, 307 and 350 engines are direct swaps physically.

auto_editor

I don't know if it's any help, but maybe more info on THE SOUND might help.

Last week I had all three belts replaced per "your" advice [I removed the smog pump + A/C belt because the smog pump was noisy but it led to all kinds of shrieking with the others so three new ones went on and stopped the noise], and I heard the normal "chuffing" sound from the pump and, unlike before, just decided to leave the smog pump alone.

Four or five days ago, however, I noticed a distinct "clicking" sound on part-throttle acceleration, a sound I've only heard once, and it was on a car with a bad lifter. Anyway, I also went to look for my carb's ID number only to find that aerated oil was apparently squirting into my air cleaner housing.

I had added a quart of oil two days prior to this as she leaks and at cold rest the stick read "ADD 1 QT". I thought "over oiling" might be the problem so I planned to take her back to the shop soonest.

Over the next two days the clicking sound, which had wasted no time in getting worse, got WORSE. Now it's going most of the time save for idling and top-gear cruising.

I'll put all my journalism/creative writing talent into describing the sound:

Go to a jewelry or similar store with glass-top cases and tap a car key with light pressure on the glass top in a one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand rhythm. That's idle. Now increase the speed and force of your tapping, and that's accelerating. It's a distinct, high-pitched tick-tick-tick-tickTICKTICKTICK-TICK-tick-tick.

My mechanic (who built cars like this back in the day and has been working on them ever since) knew right away what that sound was and said it sounded like a rod was on its way out but that it didn't sound like I "wiped a bearing yet." [Yeah, YET. Wonderful.]

They made sure that I didn't overfill the oil, and mentioned that though it's black-ish (despite being replaced less that 1k miles ago w/name-brand 10w40), there's "no metal or debris" in the oil, and that the spitting-up part was most likely due to the EGR or PCV filter/valve going bad as they "look like they're a thousand years old." [Replaced, no more spitting. That leaves the fuel filter(s) as the only ones I haven't changed yet...]

It's also not a fuel issue, as I only use BP or Shell gas and only the 93 octane (even though I'm sure it's not worth the money, it's only the best for my baby) and the carb issue(s) remains unchanged in relation to THE SOUND.

Oh, and I personally can't tell where the sound is coming from, either, and the engine doesn't "ring" or vibrate with it. Somewhere in there something is ticking/clicking, but it's not affecting the operation of the engine, and it's not the "thock" or "thump" I've heard on cars that soon thereafter had their engine blocks ventilated with rod and piston parts.

So there it is. I'm resisting the temptation to go the used-car dealer route and put some kind of 3rd-party miracle elixir in the oil to quiet it down (though if I should I will). For now her performance--what there is of it--remains steady across the board, and the noise may have reached a crescendo as it's not gotten any worse from yesterday to now.

I'm now in conservation mode, starting and driving her as little as possible until I get this figured out. If you can name specific things I--or a mechanic--should look/listen for for further diagnosis, fire away. So long as she's sitting in the driveway I figure I have time...

Drew

joe_padavano

While it's a bit difficult to diagnose sounds through an bulletin board, the tick-tick-tick is usually a lifter. A rod tends to be more of a more solid rap-rap-rap. And if the bearing is spun, the journal is toast, period. I suggest you get a length of heater hose and use it as a stethoscope to pinpoint the source of the sound.

Higgins

While unusual noises coming from an engine are not desireable, some are certainly worse than others. Noisy lifters can be quieted by using Marvel Mystery Oil, put it in the gas & oil. Takes a little while to work but it does.
A broken ring can make a ticking sound also and oil consumption will increase. I would do the Marvel oil & drive it. If the motor blows do a 350 swap.

BlackGold

My optimistic vote is for an exhaust leak. You'd be amazed at how metallic a sound a small exhaust leak at the head can make. To avoid embarassing myself, I won't tell you how much time and effort I have gone through "fixing" something else when it was just an exhaust leak.

You can usually feel the puff with your hand. Of course, the hard part it making it make the sound while the car is stationary. If you can get it to make the sound while power-braking, then all you need is someone you trust to power-brake it while you feel around under the hood.

I'm not sure about your year car, but I believe that at least one of the accessory brackets is held in place (partially) with one of the exhaust manifold bolts. Maybe when you were messing around with belts you broke the seal at the manifold.

MDchanic

Yeah. What they said.

The sound you are describing (through the miracle of the BBS) sounds more high pitched than a rod knock would be expected to be. They're usually dull, with a tiny bit of a metallic echo or "ring," and occur once every revolution.
A lifter can make a sound like you're describing, and I also very much like the idea of an exhaust leak, which, if it is just right, can sound like a very sharp and distinct "tick."

I agree with the advice to get an appropriate listening aid, such as a length of heater hose or other flexible, thick-walled, soft-lined tubing (okay, heater hose is pretty much it), and very carefully and slowly survey the entire engine to find out where the sound is loudest.

You might also want to try recording the sound, both "in the wild," and through the hose, with a digital recorder, and uploading the file for all to hear, to perpetuate this discussion for another week or two .

Good luck!

- Eric