Last year I got delayed with my brake line/hose replacement because of the seized fitting on the center brake hose to rear brake line, weather and the rear axle restoration. Yes, I tried heat, penetrating fluid, tapping on that sucker, even prayed for it, but it must be non denominational..... No chance in heck it was coming loose. There was also a very old layer of undercoating to deal with (that burned off with the heat). The car this thread relates to is a 1972 Cutlass S. I expect the hose would be the same or very close on A body coupes/sedans from 1968-72

Finally I just decided to try excessive force or cut the line at the fitting if the force didn't work, since I was going to replace all the metal brake lines anyway. I should clarify that I like to avoid Neanderthal approaches on my car whenever possible because it helps me with the learning experience to see how things should come apart and go back together. Well after stripping the head on the fitting (even with a box end 7/16") I just cut the line and pulled the hose through the other side. Put it in a vise and used vice grips and an extension (yes it was that tight). I figure about 80 ft/lbs of torque to bust it loose finally. That would explain why the OEM brake line simply twisted itself into a knot when I applied force - even holding the hose end securely.

I had seriously thought about re-using the OEM brake hose, but it has been clamped for almost 10 months so the inner hose might have some restriction. The hose itself is still incredibly flexible and has no cracking at all! I'll keep it as a souvenir of this project. Maybe I'll hang it over the mantle as one of my 'conquests'....

So while I have the opportunity I thought I'd document the difference between the OEM part and the ILT repop I ended up buying. Most of this you can see in the side by side comparisons.

First thing I did was put the OEM part through the media blaster to clean it up. Shows the details much better.

OEM connection at fitting is a single crimp and not plated. The ILT replacement is Cadmium plated and has a double crimp. I guess the double crimp may be safer, but the OEM line never let go at any time in its 41 year life span. Note also the OEM has a hexagonal machining where a wrench can be used; the reproduction just has 2 parallel machined surfaces. So a box end wrench on this end (to hold secure) will work on OEM, but NOT reproduction.


The OEM fitting to the top of the differential is brass and specifically contoured. If you look closely there is a machined bevel at the bottom of the OEM that creates a 'small ledge' inside the machined cavity. The ILT replacement is a completely different shape, Cad Plated, and is the wrong diameter bore to install the factory bolt to the differential. I had to drill out the reproduction so the bolt will fit.



The side profiles are also different. As seen, the OEM is stepped whereas the reproduction is the same height across both upper/lower surfaces. Not sure how important that is though because the main thing is getting the rear brake lines in the fitting and tight. That will be no problem.



Now for those folks who are looking for the concourse info for their 1000 point show car, here are the stampings on the OEM brake hose. Best I could get considering I had to blast the undercoating off the hose to get these.



One thing I'm really amazed by. The OEM parts that are stamped, whether it's brake hoses or radiator rubber parts...GM had someone with a conscience stamp them very clearly. No runny water based stampings that are 'readable' but sloppily done. I've run into that with other rubber parts, even from Fusicks, which I complained to them about. (I even sent them a factory correct picture of the original to use as a template.) They sent me another set of hoses that were marked properly but still don't have that 'crisp' detail of original parts.

 

Hmmm, I replaced that hose with one from Fusicks 5 years ago and IIRC it was almost an exact match...and it was made in the USA.

 

Your experience dealing with a different vendor helps everyone who's going to attempt this work. I did look at Fusick's for that part and noted it was 59.00 at the time. The ILT catalogue showed the hose (a little fuzzy - but so was Fusicks) and their price was less than 1/2 at 25.00. Don't get me wrong - both products will work and my car isn't going to be concourse. If it was I would spend the extra $$ for the correct look.

Thanks for chiming in - that's the kind of info we need to share!

 

Next time you run into something that stuck try wax and heat to draw the wax into the threads. Worked for me on several occasions when just heat or p b blaster wouldn't.

Great info Al thanks for sharing.

 

Hello Allan,
Oddly enough I chose to use the hose listed for your car, 72 Cutlass, when putting a 12 bolt Chevy rear end in the blue 66. When the 12 bolt is used where a 8.2 10 bolt was the hose needs to be longer. So I researched online at Auto Zone and chose this one because it was long enough and way cheaper than most.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par.../N-iptslZ8knpa
If you look the end where the single line fits is also different than your original, but the end which bolts to the differential is very much like the original, although both ends are double crimped. And check the price, $18.99.

Good luck always,
Mike

 

most all these 'sunsong' hoses i have seen are china even the delco ones. its hard to tell if originals are good but i would rather use an original one if in good shape

 

That's the conundrum with my OEM. It looks just fine, but still shows the pressure clamp point where the vice grips were attached. I honestly don't know if that damaged the inner part of the hose or not. What are your thoughts? I can put the hose out in the sun to let it soften and maybe 'reshape' itself? As you can see from the pics, there's absolutely no cracking in the rubber, but I wonder if it will be safe to re-use. I know sometimes guys will clamp off a front disc hose for a short time to change out calipers, but that's not a long time and doesn't seem to leave an impression on the hose either.

 

If the question is to reuse the old hose vs the new, I vote for the new hands down.

 

I vote new but is there a USA or CAN made one that you can buy.
I HATE OF SHORE CRAP

I never clamp the brake hose I think it is a bad practice and if I were to do so I would buy the tool for the job not use vise grips.

 

I myself would stick with the oem provided it passed inspection...the new would make me feel better if it just wasnt made in china...the suicide rate in china is pretty high from being overworked....its really a tough call and i can see how new is the way to go i just dont feel good about critical stuff from china, however some of the supplies used in the hospital i work at are from china so they are capable of good quality and if thats the case with brake hoses (able to buy a better quality one) then i would get new otherwise i would get a nos 10 year old usa made bendix or whatever

 

There is absolutely no way to know if a brake hose is good by inspection! You have no idea what's going on inside. I hate China stuff, too... but a new hose is way safer than a 40-50 year old hose, and your life may depend on it. Right....the double crimp was mandated by the government years ago, that's why the stamping changed. I scored 999 at the OCA Nats, and I judge, too. Trust me...even James Kryta is not going to check that hose or it's shape. I would use a new hose anytime, before I would put a used one back on.

 

Well i see the point about using the new i would prefer using aftermarket usa....now i bought china hoses and opted to use one of my older ones but the u clip was bad so when i tried to swap the china clip onto my older hose the clip tang snapped off...talk about cheap crap

 

Right...because the China clip is probably metric-sized and smaller than original. You can get those clips (USA) at NAPA, they have them around here in stock. But...they are behind the counter and you have to ask. I do agree old stock quality (Wagner, Raybestos, Bendix) NORS is best. But you have to have old catalogs to know the part number. Stuff like that is always on ebay, NORS non-cogged fan belts, correct shaped rad hoses, brake hoses, etc. All that stuff was originally made for GM by Gates, Goodyear, Dayco, Bendix, Wagner, etc.

 

Don't know about the repo quality but in my mind 40 - 50 year old rubber for a safety related part that works under extreme pressure........it's a no brainier. Double crimps were for safety purposes as well.

 

Hmmm ok i will check when i am at napa and ask for the non metric clips

 

Allan, if you go with the china line let me know i will buy the GM Hose if you want to sell it

 

I've already installed the reproduction hose. No issues with it at all. Why would you want to buy a used GM hose? I'm not sure I would be doing you a service with it. If you want, I'll post a picture that shows where the line was clamped - it still shows.

 

send a pic...when you say clamped, is that in the vice?

 

No, the hose was clamped with a small set of vice grips. I didn't put huge pressure on it, just enough to stop brake fluid, but as I said, the clamp marks are still there. Still interested?

 

Just went out to the garage and took a couple pictures for you.

 

This is why I never clamp brake hoses and think it is a bad idea.
You can learn a lot buy a visual brake hose inspection if it is cracked the rubber is starting to fail. If there is bulges the line could fail at any moment and will give you a sponge pedal. Look around the fittings for rust and rubber cracking you could have it fail at this point. If the hose has inward dip the hose could be collapsed and this would lead to the brakes not being fully released.

 

When I do brakes, I use clamping grips with rubber sleeves when I need to clamp the hose. Usually brakes go so fast that the clamp is only on for 10 minutes or so. If it's a brake hose replacement I don't spare the hose.

Most new car brake hoses have a protective sheath over top. + and - IMO. + it keeps the hose from exposure to the elements. - you don't actually see the condition of the hose when it starts to deteriorate.

When I clamped this OEM hose, I did so with every intention of replacing it, but I also needed to control (stop) any fluid leaking from when I removed/upgraded the rear axle and also did control arm bushings. That's why I didn't really care that it was clamped so long. I get your point, but this has sort of turned into a side discussion from the original post.

Before

 

They make special brake line clamps but feel there is no need to clamp the brake line. I put a pan down and let the fluid run out this way I flush the line at the same time if I open up the system. I don't like to run old brake fluid through new calipers or cylinders.
Its a good idea to flush out the old fluid when doing a complete brake job. From time to time I let the master run dry no big deal I just bench bleed the master on the car. When I flush the master I pull out most of the fluid with a syringe and fill it right away with new and let it gravity bleed out at all four corners. If any point you let it run dry you will have to bench bleed the master. I use a large container of fluid on a complete brake job so this adds $ 15.00 to the overall cost.

 

Thanks for the pic...it is obvious that this hose should not be put back into service

 

Nice comparison...
I took a look at my chinesium Dorman brand hose and it is shaped more accurately at the diff end it seems.
Hope that means it will fit without drilling.
I need to see what my original looks like. I am up in the air about replacing it.
It would be a MAW whenever the upper bushings get done.

 

Looks a lot closer than mine did! Both are offshore products.

Drop the rear end!
Drop the rear end!
Drop the rear end!

 

Not going to happen at my place, that's for sure. MAW deflector hat is strapped on tight.
I had tried to recruit Richard to do it for cash but he never got his lift installed and working in his new shop. Just planning to restore the upper control arms, change the bushings and that brake hose, that's all.

 

Umm, you do know that in order to remove and change the upper control arm bushings, it's damn near impossible to do while the differential is still in the car? That in itself is a great reason to drop that sucker out, do the upper/lower control arms, pull the axles and replace the bearings/seals and then change the gear oil.....Absolutely nothing to do with MAW. It's all related. Of course you'll be able to get all that done easier if you do pull the rear bumper and fuel tank. That's also related since you want to put that cutout bumper on the back right??? See, there's no such thing as MAW, it's all related maintenance. Ya want I should catch the red eye special and be there to get it done next week??? (I should talk, mine still isn't done)

 

I can see the hand wringing now Rob. Better double strap the deflector. I need to do my rear control arm bushings also. Just waiting till I find a suitable rear diff first.

 

Eric, you have a 12 bolt in your 67? It's MUCH easier to press those bearings out and in to the differential on that. Whoever designed the ears on the GM 10 bolt corporate should be shot. One side is easy, the other is a visit in hell.

Looking forward to your build!

 

I think mine is a 10 bolt O type. It's an open rear end though, I'm looking for a posi.

 

Check with Brian Trick 507OLDS) or Jim Mitschke (monzaz). They will have something for you. I bought my series 3 posi from Jim. He was very good to deal with.

 

I have a local line on some thank you. It's just not high on the priority list at the moment.

 

Umm, you do know that in order to remove and change the upper control arm bushings, it's damn near impossible to do while the differential is still in the car? That in itself is a great reason to drop that sucker out, do the upper/lower control arms, pull the axles and replace the bearings/seals and then change the gear oil.....Absolutely nothing to do with MAW. It's all related. Of course you'll be able to get all that done easier if you do pull the rear bumper and fuel tank. That's also related since you want to put that cutout bumper on the back right??? See, there's no such thing as MAW, it's all related maintenance. Ya want I should catch the red eye special and be there to get it done next week??? (I should talk, mine still isn't done)

As long as we are talking related maintenance here. Those hockey pucks as Allan refers to them are much easier to get out once the gas tank and rear bumper are cleared out. And I can tell you from experience that it is much easier to get the upper control bolts out with the body off the frame. It is all related maintenance.

 

I talked to a parts man today and he said the best bet for a USA made hose would be Wagner. Even though I'm far off from needing them I'm going to have him order all three in and see what shows up.

 

http://fme-cat.com/overlays/part-det...71374&pt=Brake Hydraulic Hose&lu=1969 OLDSMOBILE 442&vin=#.Uf31rlJrbIU

This Wagner brake line looks close to stock

 

For what it's worth, I just replaced all the lines (metal and rubber both) in my car and the rear-center rubber unit I got from Inline-tube (as well as their stainless lines). It looked very close to the original. I didn't take any side-by-side photos (they have them of their parts on their website), but the shape of the lower metal portion that you can actually see if you are looking for it is the same or at least very similar to the OEM unit, not just a square cube like you the over the counter piece you ran into earlier...