The way homes are built now with all the bells and whistles that the wife wants. A lot of piping goes in attics for air handlers, steam shower units etc. Unusually cold temperatures in that region with strong winds - well I’m sure that most attics there are not insulated properly.

 

Woodford and others have made "freeze-proof" outdoor faucets at least since the 1960s. Hose bib and handle on outside wall, the actual valve mechanism is in the crawlspace or basement, connected to the handle by a long valve stem. I've seen 12 and 15 inch versions. Idea is the valve is in a warmed area, and when it's shut off the section the stem runs in drains itself to prevent freezing. Newer ones have warning on the valve handle to disconnect water hoses in freezing weather so it can work as designed. I've lived in two houses with this type outdoor faucet and never had one freeze. The other one had to have an insulated cap over the hose bib.

As long as freezing water has room to expand it shouldn't burst a pipe even if the water in the pipe freezes solid. Shut off the water main or well pump, open a vent to depressurize it, open lowest point drain available. Any water left that freezes should expand into airspace and not burst piping.

 

I have those, but I also have the insulated caps on now.

 

I’m sure the attics are “insulated properly” for the “usual” conditions. You can’t really expect houses to be built for every “unusual” condition.

 

I have never had a frozen pipe in my house. I’m pretty paranoid and leave faucets dripping, and the faucets on outside walls I leave the cabinet doors open. Granted, I have never had my power go out for days on end in freezing weather.

I did have a freeze in my garage utility room. I woke up one morning to find no water in the house. Turns out the water in the line after the well pressure switch froze. As far as the pressure switch knew, there was sufficient pressure. The previous owners had a very small electric space heater screwed to the wall behind the plumbing, apparently they had that problem before. I replaced the water heater the following fall and removed the blanket that covered the water heater. I insulated the utility room, I figured I’ll insulate the room and use the heat from the water heater to keep that utility closet a little warmer. In the 9 years since, the pressure switch never froze again.

 

There is a big difference between “unusual” and “extreme” when it comes to proper insulation. I’m sure our Minnesota and Canadian residents can describe what is required to be safe where they live. But I don’t insulate houses for a living so I am not an “expert” - I just frame them.

 

For everyone that thinks that turning your water off and attempting to drain you pipes will protect you from broken pipes, this is my old man experience:

My ex-wife's parents have a ski house in VT. It had electric heat and they completely turned off the heat when they weren't there. The house was designed to be self draining meaning if you turned off the water opened the drain valves in the basement, and opened every sink faucet and flushed every toilet and put pink antifreeze in every toilet and trap the pipes wouldn't freeze. Every supply line in the house was graded to drain to the basements drains. The basement drain valves were located in a small framed out room that always had the water heater and the water line from the well. This was the only room that they left the heat on it. They had a pretty good system that never failed.....unless you missed one thing.

When I was 21 I took all my buddies there on New Years Eve. I arrived in the early evening, turned on the heat and went out to a bar. When we returned I turned on the water (we always allowed the house to get to about 50 degrees before turning on the water). It was after midnight and I immediately heard the sound of running water in the walls. Someone had forgotten to open one faucet on the second floor. The vacuum in the lines held the water in place and the line split in at least 5 places from the second floor to where it tied into the downstairs plumbing (even though in the basement the drains were both open). I had to cut open walls and the bathroom floor to fix the pipes.

For those that think those freeze proof outside faucets are fool proof here's my experience:

When I bought my house I had two of them. One was unusable because it leaked into the house when you turned on the water outside. It turns out that it was installed on a slight angle allowing just enough water to be retained outside of the valve body and that water expanded and split the pipe....EVEN THOUGH IT WAS COMPLETELY OPEN ON ONE SIDE. The second one eventually froze on the house side of the valve (15" inside my house) because there was an air gap above the basement insulation allowing cold air from the fascia to get that space below freezing.

I also had a supply line to my tub shower freeze 6 feet from the outside fascia because the dumbass that installed the new tub didn't re-insulate the outside wall in the 2'x2' area where the tub butted the wall. The pipe that froze and broke was on the other side of the tub.

My point from all this is that the way houses are generally built there is no way things won't freeze if you have no heat. You can do all the right things and you're still going to have problems. That's why I have a transfer switch and a 7000W portable generator and I keep 10-15 gallons of gas around all winter. My transfer switch powers the essentials in my main living area (kitchen & living room) and it obviously powers my heating system as well.

I would imagine with the advent of PEX a lot of these freezing pipe problems will go away. I use it to replace anything copper whenever I can.

And I don't live in a area that gets extremely cold either.

 

I never said it would be completely foolproof, but it's certainly better than what you recommended, which was to shut off the main valve and make no further attempts.

You were called an old man, not because of your age, but because you thought you were somehow entitled to tell me I was "talking out my ***" [sic]. You later changed that to azz, like that makes it better. I've noticed that some of the elderly, whom society no longer expects to back up their words with their fists, feel the freedom to be insulting at their whim. Me, I'm only in my 40s, and I grew up with the internet, so I never start anything online, nor do I say something online I wouldn't say in person. I know of people who have had online feuds show up on their doorsteps, and the best way to win a fight is not provoke one. I have no issue with you disagreeing with me, but I do have issue with your disrespect.

 

Port Isabel and South Parede Island are pristine fishing, beaches, hunting and rare animals. And vacation spot for many. Port of Brownsville is known for recycling old navy ships and building oil rigs. Not the chemical cesspools of Lake Charles, Texas City or Corpus Christi. And homes of superfund cleanup. I need to roll up the windows and close the vents as I drive through. Purification of the LPG releases large amount of toxin into the air.

Plymouth LNG explosion reveals that the LNG industry is creating a false safety record, and current regulations allow the industry to do so. Though the accident released a dangerous LNG vapor cloud into residential areas, it didn’t meet the definition of “a threat to public safety,” and federal rules did not classify it as an LNG spill. Furthermore, facility owner Williams Pipeline Company (Williams) is still withholding key details about the accident.
https://www.sightline.org/2016/02/08...in-washington/
https://minerva.jrc.ec.europa.eu/en/..._by_maureenpdf
https://www.eenews.net/stories/1060038378
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...dustry-safety/

 

WelI can tell you know nothing about Lake Charles or the local LNG plant with that superfund cleanup comment and needing to roll up windows while driving. That just made me laugh.

These are within spitting distance of the LNG plant
Lacassine National Wildlife Refuge
Cameron Prairie National Wildlife Refuge
Sabine National Wildlife Refuge
Rockefeller National Wildlife Refuge

 

I believe you would best serve the interests of this forum by subscribing to the rules & etiquette of the Classic Oldsmobile site. This is not a forum for the continued proliferation of your own political views. You're taking things far past the limits of the intention of this site. Additionally, your continual proliferation of unsubstantiated evidence of the origin of SARS-CoV-2 is unacceptable. You are NOT adding to the purpose of this site, you are propagating your own political agenda and falsehoods.

I find your statement unacceptable. Please remove this from your signature line.

 

We need to self-police our threads, and thank you for doing a good job with this, Norm.

However, the origin of SARS-CoV-2 has not been established and all statements about origin are un-substaniated.

 

Why must every conversation delve into politics or personal attacks. Can't wait until spring when people can get out of their houses and we can get back to talking about cars. Thread closed.