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So my son just moved to Great Falls, Montana, where Thursday's forecast low is -32F. Garage is full, and one summer vehicle is parked outside. Other than testing his coolant, & maybe a dipstick heater, I have no other guidance. Thoughts?
Pull the battery in the car outside, bring it in the house to warm up,then charge it. Perhaps keep a battery tender on it if its placed back in the car.
Install a block heater. I live in North Dakota, winter is what you make it. Lover it or hate it. I enjoy it and don't put my 72 Cutlass Supreme in storage. The more one bitches about the weather, the more you will hate it no matter what. We have not seen temps above zero for over a week, and forecast looks like a few more days of it ahead. Drive my CS weekly, just have to be careful.
A few years ago I spent two weeks in Saint Paul Minnesota working with a medical device company - went to the ice festival, did some ice fishing, had a great time. It was temporary for me - not sure I’d want to live where the thermometer never got above zero for 5 days, and each night the weatherman tells you to be aware: exposed skin will freeze in 8 minutes.
I got a kick out of the same weatherman saying it could be worse - up in Winnipeg it’s 40 below
These cars were expected to start in that environment when they were new. Properly maintained, there is no reason they won’t today.
Make absolutely sure the coolant has the proper antifreeze mix.
A block heater would be nice, but isn’t needed. Same thing with a battery heater. Get the biggest CCA battery you can, proper size battery cables, with a proper tune s d functional choke it will be fine.
Put a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator. That will help keep the engine warm when driving in temps that cold. It’s not absolutely needed, but does help.
If the car is just being stored and not driven, as long as the coolant won’t freeze the car won’t care what the temperature is.
Last edited by matt69olds; February 9th, 2021 at 09:26 AM.
Thanks for the replies! It's not being driven. It's an '82 VW Westfalia camper. Upgraded diesel engine. My only real concern is that the coolant mix is at least 50% ethylene glycol (-34F (-37C) freezing point). 60% is -63F (-53C).
Last edited by F-85 4-4-2; February 10th, 2021 at 04:03 AM.
Point the engine out of the wind. When you park. It helps.
Pointing into or away from the wind makes no difference, perhaps it cools the engine down faster but the temp is the temp, wind-chill only is a factor against ones skin.
Pointing into or away from the wind makes no difference, perhaps it cools the engine down faster but the temp is the temp, wind-chill only is a factor against ones skin.
All I know, in upstate New York. We had only two seasons, July and winter. If I pulled my car into the driveway facing to north wind. It was harder to start or would not. Backing in with engine not facing the wind. It would start. It was not just me. Most did that. I am not sure of the reason, except possibly the wind chill factor had something to do with it. You can believe it or not.
Your engine has no concept of wind chill because there is no inherent temperature loss making it feel colder than it really is. It is a factor of increased cooling effect to get to a temperature, rather than the actual temperature. Your body temp is 98.6 average, wind makes you cool faster to the temp point, the engine is not under a 98.6 requirement. Sure an engine may cool faster with big winds but it will not feel below ambient temp as you may.
Plain and simple it can not be colder than the temp. If it is minus 20 your block, after sitting etc, will be minus 20.
Pointing into or away from the wind makes no difference, perhaps it cools the engine down faster but the temp is the temp, wind-chill only is a factor against ones skin.
I can see both arguments to this case. I do agree with the argument that the wind chill won’t have an effect on the mechanism. However if you had a block heater installed and the wind were flowing over the engine directly, it could negate the warming capacity of the heater. In the temps listed, every ounce to your benefit counts. I’ll cite my tenure in Minot as my personal reference.
Just a shot. I am not sure why it does. Does Not explain -30
Richard Neal
, former Fleet Mechanic -Explosive Ordnance Tech -Machinist at Lockheed Martin (1986-2016)For practical purposes with auto engines (slight warmth still detectable to the touch) 2 hrs. (minimum) to 4+ hrs. depending on several variables. A large cast iron engine will take twice as long to cool as a smaller, aluminum engine. Air circulation in the engine compartment is a major factor too. I’d estimate the cool down time is double, in still air, with the hood closed.
I am a former Navy Meterologist and the wind chill has only to do with the evaporation of moisture on the skin. The same as the "feels like" temp in the summer. The temperature is always the temperature. Evaporation can make it seem colder in winter, or in the summer, if there is no evaporation to cool your body, it feels hotter.
I would think that pointing into the wind and out of it will not do anything for the ultimate temp, which will be ambient either way. However, one of the main things that makes an old car cantankerous is not temperature, but humidity. The longer, and more gradually, and more "still-ly" an engine cools off, the less humidity will get into the harnesses and seals and such; thus making it easier to start. An engine should start much easier in a cold, dry climate than in a cold, wet one. I think this is part of why cars in unheated garages start better than outside; they're dry.
I would think that pointing into the wind and out of it will not do anything for the ultimate temp, which will be ambient either way. However, one of the main things that makes an old car cantankerous is not temperature, but humidity. The longer, and more gradually, and more "still-ly" an engine cools off, the less humidity will get into the harnesses and seals and such; thus making it easier to start. An engine should start much easier in a cold, dry climate than in a cold, wet one. I think this is part of why cars in unheated garages start better than outside; they're dry.
Yeah, I had that thought, but at 30 below, the relative humidity is zero. The only thing wind will do in that situation is potentially increase the rate of convection cooling, as the circulation will chase out pockets of warmth more quickly. If you're talking about parking the car overnight, then that's meaningless as all parts of the car have long since reached ambient temperature. This only matters if the car is warm and only parked for a relatively short period of time. To clarify, this has nothing to do with wind chill (which is a made-up thing anyway). This is about increasing the rate of convection cooling.
Im w koda on this there may be low no humidity, but at those temps there is frequently blowing snow. When i leave my snowblower outside engine heat will melt snow, cold temps refreeze it and everythings stuck when i goto start it frozen throttle, frozen chute etc. when i park it in the shed its exposed to the same temps but no blowing snow, enough residual snow melts off it and doesnt refreeze onto moving parts and i have no problems.
parking engine. away from the wind accomplishes the same thing but perhaps in a less effective manner than parking indoors in an unheated area.
A fully charged battery has a freezing point around -80 °F while a discharged battery has a freezing point around 20 °F. By keeping the battery fully charged during the winter months, the electrolyte is less likely to freeze and cause unexpected failures.
Lived in SW Michigan for 8 years.
!st winter in 1978, I parked into the wind facing Lake Michigan.
Car acted like a dead battery.at the end of the day.
No start, only one click.
The land of horizontal snow blew through the radiator and made a large ice block on the front of the engine.
It totally the crank, pulls, etc.
Had to have it towed to warm up inside garage.
No way it was ever going to turnover with that ice block.
That was the last time i ever parked facing the wind.
If the car isn’t going to be driven in the winter, most of this discussion isn’t relevant.
Make sure beyond a shadow of doubt the coolant freeze point is well below anything expected. Charge the battery, and then either remove it or disconnect the cables.
There are many other things that could be done to properly store the car, but if it’s only for a couple months I wouldn’t worry about it.
If the storage time period is for more than a couple months, there are many threads on this forum discussing the steps to ensure a stress free wake up after hibernation.
Diesel? Good luck with fuel gelling. I hope he filled the tank with #1 before he parked it.
My single experience with fuel gel involved a "parlor stove", a prehistoric fuel-oil furnace that had an outside tank, copper plumbing embedded in the concrete, and there was a two-chamber/two float "carburetor" on the side of the furnace to control the flow of fuel oil into the two combustion chambers.
Doofus fuel-oil delivery guy gave me a tankful of #2 (Fuel oil for indoor tanks) instead of #1 (Fuel oil for outdoor tanks). He dumped several bottles of diesel fuel treatment into the tank, but that didn't help. The carburetor plugged up with pink "pudding", and even when warmed it wouldn't dissolve back into the rest of the fuel oil. I had to have the outdoor tank pumped out, and re-filled with #1. I spent hours cleaning the pudding out of the carburetor and copper plumbing, and out of the fuel filter on the tank.
Currently -22 here right now, but the overnight low is supposed to be ten degrees colder. Tomorrow's high temp is projected to be -16. This is the most mild winter I've ever seen. Usually we get a week or two in January that's worse than this, and maybe comparable weather in December--but not this year. God bless Global Warming.
I do my "indoor" projects in the winter, "vehicle" projects are on hold until spring.
I have had a diesel truck for the last 20 years, I have never had issues starting it in the cold, with or without the grid heater plugged in. I have also never had an issue with fuel gelling. I think that’s either a problem that’s way over-exaggerated, or just a very rare occurrence that gets much more attention than it deserves.
The first winter I had a diesel, I took a weeklong snowmobile vacation in Minnesota. The warmest it got that week was -10 below, definitely pretty cold. I didn’t have any trouble starting the truck. Obviously the grid heater stayed on a lot longer than it usually would, the engine did crank a little slower than normal, but it started and ran just fine.
Properly tuned, properly maintained, the car will be just fine.
It has be hoovering in between -35 and -40C all week here in Saskatchewan. I am not even talking the windchill, that was into the -60 range😳. Honestly, we have been spoiled this Winter temp wise till this last week. Don't own a Dodge, when my Dakota's battery runs low, it forgets how to idle. It is so cold out, the trickle charger cracked at the end. I had to fix the plug in and put wire loom in case it cracks and arcs out again. Even our Challenger isn't command starting for some reason. I deliver fuel and Winter diesel is an absolute necessity. Even Antigel in Winter diesel isn't enough to make heavy diesel work properly in -40C. Coop's Summer diesel is good to -15C, we do the switch early enough to make sure our customers have no issues. The fuel economy loss is about 10%, Winter vs Summer fuel. We did the test on near identical conditions for the railroad.
It'll be low of around 0 °F here early next week. Compared to other places, that's only an annoyance. But here, at a latitude more southerly than San Diego, it's 50-year cold, only 8 degrees shy of the 140 year record.
I left the cover on my DD early this week before I realized it was raining. Now it's glued to the car and won't come off until late next week when the temperature gets back toward normal.
Our trees won't bounce back as well as my car will. Lots of branches are broken from the weight of ice.
Speaking of cold weather, my wife says it's way too cold to walk the dogs in the morning. This is the same woman who doesn't go into the swimming pool until the water temperature is above 88ºF.
Apparently this temperature thing is all relative. She likes summer when it's 82ºF indoors.
Last edited by Fun71; February 13th, 2021 at 07:53 PM.
February 9th, 2021, 04:36 AM
