Allan R

Well, it's gettin on towards winter time and I got the winter tires out. Knew that my brakes were getting really low in the spring when I swapped out the summer tires. Saw a small crack in the RS brake hose so I knew that it would be on the parts list. Well these rotors and pads have been on the car since I bought it back in 03. Brakes never ever felt right. They were pulsing a lot. I did take it to a shop back then and they machined the rotors and did replace the brake line that was cracked. Like I said, brakes never were smooth, even with machining. So during the summer I ordered new rotors, pads and what the heck, 2 new brake hoses from Auto Parts Online. They had really good prices, and free shipping. 3 days after I ordered I had the parts (Fedex). But I didn't feel like doing it right then.

Ok, pulled off the RF tire and went to take off the caliper. WTH??? These calipers are held in with a recessed 3/8 hex bolt!! Great, put the wheel back on and go to the parts store so I can buy the dang thing. $11.00 for one socket, or $50.00 for a whole set of 20 hex and torx combined. Never could say no to a tool bargain. So back home I go with my goodies. The caliper bolt was in so tight, I had to use my torque stick for leverage. Every turn out was by wrench. Those beeatches were in there and siezed. So finally they're out, and do they ever look like crap. Now the other problem...the sleeves they go through are seized in the caliper. Way to go GM designers; this one is a real winner! So I phone up the parts store and ask "How much for calipers?". "Hey, you're in luck" says Binky on the other end, "they're on sale right now for $36.00 each". "Save me 2, I'll be right down" I say. Now I gotta beg for the wifes car for a 10 minute run to the shop.

Well, since I gotta change calipers, I figured I might as well change the brake hose first cause that isn't too hard. Pull the C clip and grab 9/16 flare nut wrench for the brake line, 5/8 on the brake hose. Yup, the SOB brake line flare nut is rusted all to hell. Fine, out come the torch. Open the bleeder and heat the hell out of the brake line flare nut. Yay! something moved!! Great, it's the 5/8 on the brake hose. The brake line nut won't move, and worse, the 5/8 is rusted solid to the holding braket, so I can't even twist it off because there's no dam clearance between the strut. Crap! Only way this is coming off is with a hack saw, so that's what I finally had to do. Cut the damn bracket off to get the brake hose off. This is what I ended up with. You can see the crack in the brake line....and also the bracket end still "glued forever" to the damn brake hose. Going to have to get another one from the wrecker.
IMG_1137.jpg?t=1257700498


Anyway (oh did I mention that I now have brake fluid dripping all over the place?) I got the new brake hose onto the brake line and temporarily clamped it off. Fortunately I did buy a couple of pints of brake fluid. Top up the reservoir and lets keep going. Need to temporarily find a way to hold the brake line and hose. Check in my fastener drawer and found a cable clamp. Not fancy, but it'll do for now. Cut a small piece of tubing to insulate the brake line and couple of self tapping metal screws to hold it in place.

IMG_1143.jpg?t=1257702285


Put the new brake pads into the new caliper and compared them to the old one. Hmmmm, I'm thinking I might have 10-15% brakepad left on the old ones. Good thing they're getting done now cause they sure aren't going to make it through the winter. You can see one of the sleeves from the old caliper bolt sticking out a bit. That's as far as it would move.

IMG_1139.jpg?t=1257701750

Anyway, I decided I want the calipers to look nice too. So clean with brake cleaner, get rid of the shipping coating, tape off and spray with Gold VHT brake caliper paint. Looks gooooood.

Off come the old rotors and on goes the new ones. Oooooh, shiiiinnnneeeyy new metal.
IMG_1141.jpg?t=1257701903

On goes the new calipers, with slick new chrome bolts and a little bolt lube. Hey it's starting to look like it should.

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Ok, time to put the brake hose on and bleed this sucker. New copper crush washers in place and clamp it down. WTH??? it's dripping like a bastard!! Quick, check that fitting. Out comes the banjo bolt and it's only crushing part of the washers......OK, now I know what's wrong. When the brake hose got threaded into the brake line, it was 180 degrees off because you normally fit it through the support bracket (which I don't have anymore) and then you turn the brake line nut down (which is frozen in place and wont move). So the brake hose needs to have a 180 degree twist to put the flat part of the metal fitting onto the caliper and snug it down. Ta da....it works. no leaks. Bleed and close the valve. Pressure wash down the wheel well and driveway from all the brake fluid. Cleaned up right nicely.

IMG_1144.jpg?t=1257702844

On goes the wheel,

IMG_1145.jpg?t=1257702966

remove jack stands, and lower the jack. Bob's you uncle. New RF Brakes!

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Over to the other side, pop off the wheel. Holy MOTHER OF GOD! The brake line on this side is ruptured in two spots and there's brake fluid stains on the inside of the aluminum rims. Talk about lucky! Couple of weeks ago, I was driving this car in the mountains with no idea that my brakes were on borrowed time. Anyway, long story short, the drivers side only took about half an hour including cleanup and was Much, much much much easier than the RH side. Took her out for a spin....wonderful. Brakes work exactly like they're supposed to.

Next day...Oh, you thought this was over???....I go to the wrecker and find another mounting bracket for the one I cut off. Also found a brand new set of brake lines, calipers and pads. Too hard to resist: 3 bucks for brake lines, 17 bucks for calipers with new pads. Anyway, back home we go and up she goes onto the jack stands. More heat on the 9/16 flare nut and finally, it turns!!. Uh huh, it turned all right. Sheared it right off. Now the damn brake line's dripping. Easy fix. Piece of hose, clamp it off. Get out the flare tools. Ah, ha ha ha ha ha, GM you rotten bastards!!! It's NOT a double flare; it's an ISO flare (otherwise known as a bubble flare) and there's no way the brake hose will seat properly with the double flare. Crap! Crap! WTH Crap again! Called my mechanic and asked if he has an ISO flare tool set. Nope. It's Sunday and no one I call that's open has one. So I call Peter back and tell him what's up. "You are screwed my friend" he says. Gotta go to work on Monday and can't use the car, so it's going to be a bus/train ride. "Can I get it towed to your shop on Mon?" I ask him. "Sure" he says, "But I'm going to have to get an ISO set to make this work". "ok" I say in defeat. Towing: anyone priced out towing lately? Crap! Hook up fee is 68 bucks and 2.50 per km. Finally find a guy who will do it flat rate for 70 bucks. Took it to Pete's shop back door. He can push it in on Mon.

Phoned him Mon afternoon. "How's it going?" I ask. "Wonderful, just friggen wonderful", he says. "I just finished working on your Oldsmobile from hell". Turns out the brake line was too corroded to put in a small splice in the wheel well because the coil around the line was rusted and had transfered the corrosion to the brake line. So he had to replace a 30 inch section and custom bend to fit. Problem was getting the flare tool into the space between the firewall and the engine block. Anyway, it's done and done right with a little help from my friend. A case of beer wasn't enough this time. The ISO flare tool set cost $200.00, but it flares in one move instead of the double flare kind. For 120.00 for his time and frustration that's not bad. Probably paid half the flare kit, cause brake line is cheap and Pete does stuff for me at really discounted rates. If he lived next door, it would have been much easier.

Bottom line: Brake Job for everything I did myself at the Tire Warehouse: $950.00 + tax. (I know because I got a quote)
My cost: Brake rotors, calipers, pads, hoses : 223.00 + the 190 for towing and Pete: 413.00
I know that shops have to make money, but this is ridiculous. Even with cost over runs, my total was 40% of what they would have charged.

Also, I now have the greatest admiration for GM standards of consistency. To wit:
Brake Line Flare nut - 9/16
Brake Hose Flare nut - 5/8
Brake line bracket nut - 7/16
Brake line strut mounting nut - 10 mm
Caliper banjo bolt - 11 mm
Caliper bolts - 3/8 "hex"

That's just retarded, and one of the reasons this was the brake job from hell. Would I ever do this again? Hell yes. Now I'm prepared.

citcapp

Nice to know I am not the only one who learns in this manner. This how I have collected all of these special tools that set in my tool box, along with all of the different sizes of standard and metric sizes. So how come is it that there is always one size or type of tool you don't have when doing a job on a different car?

wolfman98

Ain't that the truth , I think another thread had that as Murphy's Law.

Bluevista

Funny? I just did my wife's '03 GP and it was a piece-o-cake.
The backs of the front rotors were basically gone, all I did were rotors and pads and it was golden, but it doesn't have cool golden calipers.
They did do the red painted calipers factory on those Poncho deals in the performance versions.

Doesn't your '72 have 3/8" recessed caliper bolts Allan????

Hindsight is 20-20 but if you heat those caliper bolts up a little they come right out every time for me, I use breaker bars and I breaker off bolts.

No torches near brake cleaner residue per Gearheads post or the gasses produced will hurt you bad or can fatally kill you.
I'm too absent-minded so I pitched mine to eliminate the threat.

jaunty75

A great story. Thank you. We can certainly all relate. I can't tell you the number of times a seemingly fast job is stopped in its tracks because a bolt or nut just will not turn. Or you need a deep-well socket in a size you don't have (but I have it now!).

But there is an indescribable satisfaction in finally finishing the job. I just redid the brakes on all four wheels on my '67 Delta (new hardware, shoes, and cylinders all around and new brake hoses in the front, all four drums turned), and when I step on the brakes now, there is an immense satisfaction that comes from knowing that the car stops because of (or in spite of!) something I did.

dan2286

Use some anti-seize on those bolts. Whoever did the breaks last on my old Cutlass used it on them and the bolts came right out. The car was sitting for over 3 years also. I also just started coating the break line fittings in grease to keep them from rusting, I also do that for suspension and steering bolts also. A mechanic I knew told me that trick and he said it has saved him lots of time when we he got cars back in that he did that to.

cutlassgal

I want beautiful gold calipers too!

OLD SKL 69

Nice job on the brakes. Now you need some aftermarket wheels so everone can see those nice calipers!

wolfman98

sshh , if I heard you then Allen can hear you and you know how that will end just make sure you have some extra paint for when he comes over

cutlassgal

Ok! But I have to pretend I'm not listening to you now! lalalalalalalalala

Cecil Anderson

You seem to have had a bit of trouble but think what kind of brake job you would now have had you dropped it off at the local shop for pads. Then just sit back be proud and smile its all over, Andy

1ATony

Looks like you made out pretty good.Yah brake jobs,and exhaust work are always big money for some reason.

Bluevista

By the time she got to Restored Stock
Bluevista had to work too long
That Wolfman put ideas in Sandy's head-ed-ed.

(chorus)

We are Calipers
We are Golden
Allan R. had to get new brake lines
'Cause his were mol-oldin'

I don't even have to hear anymore, my ears ring when you guy start talking about me.
I thought it was the meds or Redgoat calling but I came here and my suspicions were confirmed.

Allan R. do calipers, Allan H. do engines.

I think your partner in crime should come on down from the tundra and help too.
It's not that difficult to paint an engine, even a Wolfman could do it.

cutlassgal

OMG!!! You are funny!! Now you're singing!! "And we've got to get ourselves back to the ga-ra-a-a-a-ge"!! I tried reeeally hard not to listen to Wolfman... honest I did... then Redgoat distracted me for a second, and before I knew it, I was corrupted again!

So simple, even a wolfman could do it! LOL!

wolfman98

been there , done that See sig line.
I did not put that Idea in her head see just saw allan R's and wanted them , all I said was not to talk too loud or you would hear her. seems your hearing is ok but your brain is confusing who said what first

cutlassgal

Well then, you better come down and help! You're more than welcome!

Confused??? "I've been dazed and confused for so long it's not true".... that sounds familiar!!

Come on, my alpha male friend... take the blame... you live further away than I do!!!!

Allan R

Great suggestions. I thought about that too now that its done and over. Springtime it'll happen. Also, FYI, this car came from Ontario Canada, which was notorious for using salt on the roads. Much of the problems I've had to deal with were a result of that. I don't honesly know that some penetrating oil would do the trick. Heat in combination? Maybe. But now it's not an issue anymore.....at least until I have to change the fuel filter.

Sandy, you can have the leftover can. If you get carried away, we'll name you "The Girl with the Golden Car" (J. Bond eat your heart out).

Ummmmm, these are the wheels I got for the winter tires. Not bad for 100.00. Took them to work and bead blasted them, a little silver wheel paint and voila! Much as the lure of seeing those calipers gleam in the sun would be nice, No aftermarkets in the plans. Going to redo my summer wheels during the winter. Stock wheels are 15" and have Michelin 205/70/15 Harmony's on them. These are 16" 225/60/16 Goodyear Ice Radials all the way around. They REALLY work! No ****. Honest to God, cross my heart, and I'll burn my wife's bra (ok that's stretching it, but now as well as she does) if I'm lying.

Allan, (hmmm, it's like talking to myself!)
1. Glad your wife's car was a piece-o-cake! It must be as easy to work around as she is.

2. My rotors could have gone 1 more turn, but I'd rather have new. The pads were really bad, 2 were at about 25%, 1 was maaaybbeeee 5% and one was about 15%. Scary.

3. Don't know about the discs on the 72. Truth be told, I've not touched them for over 25 years. The car has only beeing driven sparingly: 720 miles since 1986. Before that, I honestly wasn't mature enough to realize the payoff of getting mechanical with my car. It was more about having a good looking car. Fixin was for the repair shop. I'm sooooo ashamed of myself

4. Those caliper bolts were seized worse than a Scotsman's wallet. To be honest, I don't think heat would have worked any better than my torquestick. Anyway they're toast now.

5. Yup, that's why I pressure washed the drive pad and wheelwells after I was done. I contained as much old brake fluid as I could (note the cardboard and blue bucket). Glad I'm not a smoker.....

Thanks Cecil, I am.

I feel inspired by Allan H now
I feel good,
na na na na na na
Like I knew I would
na na na na na na
I got new brakes
and some plans to make
(sorry James Brown, it was too easy....)

Hey, I do engines too. Maybe not as pretty as Allan H, but I can play Have Paint Can, will Travel. Wolfman, you in?

cutlassgal

I like that idea!! Come on down, and bring Wolfman with you!! I love your engine - It's so beautiful!! Allan is going to make mine look more beautiful, though!! I can't wait!

I do like those gold calipers though, and would like to have the rims re-done and painted...I'm sure I can find lots of things to keep you guys busy!! Might even be able to find a she-wolf for wolfman around here too! LOL!!

2blu442

Hey Allen R
That's why you need to use your vintage Olds as a daily driver A few years back I bought a 1997 Boooik Riviera for my Mom. She's in her 80's and I like the big comfy cruiser for her. It's even got a mini blower on the sideways V6 But... the other day she called to say "the car made a funny noise" Whoops, whatever I was doing was on hold and I headed across town to investigate. A serpentine belt was delaminating from the back side and was slapping the underside of the hood. I had replaced the belts last year with GM parts To replace the belts you need to lift up the engine and remove one of the motor mounts as they go through it. That's just not right! To replace a fan belt you gotta lift up the motor and remove a motor mount???

I just don't like working on newer cars

Allan R

What? Turn my silver ghost into a daily driver? Hmmmm maybe. But not during the winter. Too many idiots out there who use other cars for bumper cushions.

Love those serpentine belts. Changing it on a 3800 is actually pretty easy, at least on mine it is. Glad to hear you're looking after your Mom. Lots of kids today don't have that kind of respect for their parents. Probably won't be much longer and she may have to trade that big comfy cruiser in for a nitrous wheelchair. I don't mind working on newer cars, IF it's something that I can handle.

wolfman98

What you still have wolves in Ohio Maybe should round up my submissive followers and look around Hope you don't mind my scent marking all around your place it's really sweet odor to any wolfwomens within 20 miles Could be further depending on the wind.
from another thread sounds like I can always find food along the way even if it's roadkill

cutlassgal

Allan R

Farkletush! You must have worked on yours recently. This was kind of bugging me, so I went down the the "mancave" just now and checked the 72's caliper bolts. 3/8 hex drives. Allan H, you were right.

Funny thing is though, I'm positive my 83 Ninety Eight didn't, and I know that my wifes Saturn doesn't, and Gary's Volvo doesn't 'cause I've done brakes on all of them. Anyway, like I said, GM is soooo consistent. Maybe next time a bolt is seized, I'll just light a tiger torch under the car and pull out some weinies and marsh mellows.

cutlassgal

Gotta watch the other Allan there, Allan! That Redgoat part of him is purdy darned smart!!

Allan R

Oh yeah??? But, is he smarter than G.W.Bush the 2nd?? Let me tell you this one:


An airplane was about to crash; there were 5 passengers on board but only 4 parachutes. The first passenger, said, I'm Kobe Bryant, The best NBA Basketball player, the Lakers need me, I can't afford to die." So he took the first pack and left the plane.

The second passenger, Hillary, said, "I am the wife of the former President of the United States, I am the most ambitious woman in the world, I am also a New York Senator and a potential future President."
She just took the second parachute and jumped out of the plane.

The third passenger, George W Bush, said, "I'm President of the United States, I have a great responsibility being the leader of a superpower state. Above all I'm the cleverest President in American history, the American people won't let me die". So he put on the pack next to him and jumped out of the plane.

The fourth passenger is a Chevy dealer from Ohio. He says to the fifth passenger, a 10 year old school boy, "Ever since we stopped selling Oldsmobiles, life just isn't the same. I know I'm going to hell anyway. Here you have the last parachute."

The boy said, "It's OK, there's a parachute left for you. The Americans' cleverest President jumped out with my backpack."

OLD SKL 69

Allan,

What year is the olds you are working on in this thread? I can remember seeing them on the road years ago but I have not seen one in a while. Any pictures of the whole car?

Allan R

It's a 1995 Regency Elite. 3800 Series 2 non supercharged. Cloth interior, and just about all the options you can name. Only missing: Moon roof (which I don't like anyway) Traction control, and ride adjustment. It's got everything else. This pic was taken in July this year. I had just got it back from the body shop for rust repairs on both quarter panels. Took this picture about 1/2 hour after I finished pin striping and polishing it. The wheels that are on it are the original stock aluminum ones. I have to refinish them (hopefully over the winter). They look better in the picture than they really are. I know it's hard to believe, but this car is actually in better condition now after 5 years of ownership than when I bought it. Fortunately or not, there's still enough of them in the wreckers that I can get some GM parts when I need them.
IMG_1059.jpg?t=1258091874

mugzilla

Heat the nut and then hit with wd, it will suck in like solder on a joint ...

I'm just glad I'm in a rust free zone ...

I've pretty much stripped all my cars nuts and bolts and none were rusted together ...

I lived in Brookings Ore. on the coast and I've worked on cars where you had to break everything loose ...

Allan R

Well, it's over and done with now, so no worries. You live in a "rust free" zone???? Aint no such animal.

Here's one for you, how do you get the fuel filter nut loose? Its on a line that runs under the car and is exposed to all kinds of crap. Supposedly, it was changed in 04, but the line nut seems to be pretty siezed. Hmmmmm, I remember now, Heat the hell out of it and spray with WD??? ummm, No, that's not it. I guess I'll have to use some penetrating oil and keep tapping it. Could take days or weeks unless I replace the whole fuel line (and that's not gonna happen)

cutlassgal

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutlassgal
Gotta watch the other Allan there, Allan! That Redgoat part of him is purdy darned smart!!

Oh yeah??? But, is he smarter than G.W.Bush the 2nd?? Let me tell you this one:


Yeah, I think he's smarter than that!! Good story!
Nice car too!!! Now to see if I can post... very frustrating again on here today!

Bluevista

I never went to Harvard and Yale but I'm smarter than the average bear.


I don't know what the deal is with the site.
A lot of buzz on facebook about recent internet problems I've been told. My wifes facebook farm crop grew in 2 seconds.

cutlassgal

I've been thrown out more today, or disconnected. If I'm lucky, I can get in to read some forums, but can't post. Will try again! My home and work computers are all ok. All other sites are ok.... it just seems to be this one. i haven't heard anything about internet problems.
I think the powers that be got upset about the thread regarding ownership of the site, and are paying us back!! LOL ok hit post and pray.....

cutlassgal

Thank ya Jesus... it worked!!!

OLD SKL 69

Nice car. Glad to see you saved it from the crusher. I'm sure it is pretty rare by now.

BTW, I am having a lot of trouble posting too.

mugzilla

Sometimes you can tighten a little first ...

Line wrench or REAL Vice grips. I used to grind off the teeth on my vice grip so it wouldn't mark the nuts and bolts ...

Allan R

Thanks for the compliment. Being as it's going on 15 years old, it's been a fun car to drive. Lots of power and lots of neat options. Nice riding car, but strangely enough, my 72 Cutlass rides nicer.

Just went to the boneyard yesterday. there were 2 98's to pull parts from: one was a 92 Touring sedan and the other was a 93 regency elite. Neither one was very well cared for. Made me feel sad when that happens. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of parts on 92 and 93 that interchange with 95. The only ones that really work are 94,95 and 96. I think people just give up on cars once they get to a certain age. Either that or they're too cheap to fixit and just drive it into the ground. I wish these cars had the old fashioned analog odometer so you can actually see the mileage on the car with no battery hookup.

Bluevista

I had a '95 Bonneville with 250,000 miles and I gave the a car away when that filter conection started leaking.
Impossible to get loose with all the rust and that thing started gushing gas more if you even looked at it. I could have sold it but the guy I gave it to was a down on his luck mechanic and had a brother with MS that had to be driven to the hospital all the time. I'm not that bad of a guy no matter what you've heard, I have my weak moments...Sandy.

He drove it about 20 miles to his house with the gas really pouring out.
I could of lit it on my end and the trail of flames would have gone the 20 miles to the car and blowed it up good it was that bad.
He was a nice guy so I guess somebody was looking out for him up there.

He fixed it and it's still on the road, 3.8's never die.

csstrux

What he said!...Grease and anti seize are my best friends.