When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
My better half is thinking about selling her 2023Chrysler Pacifica now that her mother has passed on since she originally bought it for ease of access for a 90 plus year old occupant and secondly because I bump my head when getting in and have nowhere to put my feet. A 2018 Super Duty long bed crew cab is my daily driver. She said maybe we can trade her van in on something that may fit me better and not fatigue me on a drive that is over one hour long plus get the payments down a little by getting a mid-sized SUV. Well think again Bozo! Every single one we looked at had a HUGE center console extending down from the dash (to accommodate the Gigantic entertainment screen?). My right leg was up so much that my knee was almost in the steering wheel. Every single front wheel drive car had a wheel well that put my left foot about three or four inches farther back and angled my left ankle a weird way. Neither would be comfortable in a longer than one hour drive. We looked at Dodge Durango, Jeep Cherokee, Chevy Traverse, Chevy, Chevy Trailblazer, and Ford Explorer. Her first choice is a MOPAR product since she has always driven them. I know there are lots more out there as we haven't looked at any Japanese, Korean, or European cars yet and my not. She isn't interested and thinks they cost too much, maybe she is right. I finally just told her find one she likes and buy it, I'm done... don't they make a car without that huge center console anymore?
I told her let's look at a mid-seventies Oldsmobile B body. The look she gave me could incinerate a basketball, she want's something new.
My wife's daily is the 1985 Delta 88 four door that we bought three years ago with 5,100 original miles on it. It was a brand new car when we got it. The price was more than I would have liked to pay, but when you consider that it was a small fraction of what a new car with equivalent room and a V8 would cost, it was a bargain. Virtually no electronics (yeah, it's got the CCC 307) and I can pretty much fix it in my sleep. She's a foot shorter than I am, but we both fit just fine. I'll never own a car with a touch screen or electronic nanny features. It's never going to be collectable or valuable, so it's a driver. Got over 40,000 miles on it now and she loves it. They're still out there. The only problem is that repair parts aren't in stock at the local auto parts store, so I keep a stash of critical spares on the shelf to avoid long down-times. Of course, given that we have three 1985 Deltas, that really isn't a problem.
I think a lot of cars a bit tight in the cabin for all the reasons you mentioned.
I've come to the conclusion that they are made for the average person.
I'm not average.
Old story...how cars have changed. I get to change a headlight in an Altima today, yay . What should take a few minutes in yesteryear time, this one will take about 20-30 minutes. Place front tire travel maximum left and peel back the inner fender and then pretend I"m in the circus...as flex armstrong.
I mean...going from a full size truck to pretty much anything is going to feel cramped. Trucks these days are absolutely massive, so any normal sized vehicle is going to feel cramped. Having not owned a full size for probably 15 years now, when I rented a RAM for hauling stuff, it felt like driving a bus.
Either that, or you ought to be playing in the NBA...
How tall are you? I'm 6'6" 250# and used to rent cars for work on a regular basis. I fit acceptably well (not great) in most of them, only a couple times did I have to ask for something else.
My daily is a 2022 Durango and I find it very comfortable on longer trips. My wife has a 2018 Grand Cherokee (same platform as the Durango) and even with the sunroof I have no issues with it.
I will say, I rarely drive in my work boots or bulky gym shoes. I wear slimmer shoes to/from work and for running errands.
Would she consider a foreign car or something bigger?
New cars are at the mercy of .gov having to compartmentalize to make sure the passive restraint system works the way it was intended. I don't like this compartmentalization. It leaves me with a space that seems claustrophobic. My DD is a 2004 Deville for good reason. They're really comfortable and very roomy. They're available right now on your local C-list or f-book mktplace. Prices range from 3500-8000. They will be offered until they are used up by society.
I told her let's look at a mid-seventies Oldsmobile B body. The look she gave me could incinerate a basketball, she want's something new.
She's not wrong, that's the car makers goal. Satisfy us just enough to start dissatisfying asap so people keep buying new. Keep advancing unnecessarily so that old cars get relic status sooner than later. And then people don't want to be in them.
As long as the illusion of overall getting better stays intact it works like a charm. Even at the lowest car sentiment, malaise era. People traded in muscle era for new. But retrospect added that impact to muscle era cars, not letting them die. Fast forward to mid 1980s cars, 1990s cars, so forth and so on, etc. No need to look back because things "seemingly" just keep getting better and better.
Originally Posted by don71
Old story...how cars have changed. I get to change a headlight in an Altima today, yay . What should take a few minutes in yesteryear time, this one will take about 20-30 minutes. Place front tire travel maximum left and peel back the inner fender and then pretend I"m in the circus...as flex armstrong.
Ah yes the let's make even the simplest things difficult so that replacing the car entirely starts making the most sense sooner than later.
My Jaguar needed the entire front bumper removed to replace headlights.
All by design all intentional. At the same time necessary to keep an economy going...
Unfortunately, with the government mandated backup cameras and other safety crap, the big tv screen stuck in the middle of the dash is here to stay.
As big as new cars and trucks are,it seems there isn’t as much interior room.
We returned from a weeklong vacation last Saturday night. We drove my wife’s 23 Challenger roughly 1800 miles over 6 days.
I’m right at 6ft, around 225. I was very comfortable in the car. However, the back seat SUCKS!! Zero legroom. Unless the front seat occupancy’s are short, and the backseat people are tiny, no way could this be considered a family car.
We have driven boring mini vans and SUVs for about 20 years. Since we are empty nesters now, when the time came for her to get a car, we decided it’s time for a “impractical” (as in FUN!) car. While the 3.6 isn’t a powerhouse, the fact that it will knock down 30mpg more than makes up for it. My biggest complaint? The cupholders suck, they are entirely too close together. If we both get a fountain drink, they can’t be the same size. One cup always pops the lid off the other!!
However, the back seat SUCKS!! Zero legroom. Unless the front seat occupancy’s are short, and the backseat people are tiny, no way could this be considered a family car.
I mean, lets be honest here, the back seat in my 68 Cutlass is just as cramped.
Yeah, I can't believe how cramped some of the CUV's are. Our 2017 Challenger is comfortable. The only new vehicle I will consider is a Charger. Trucks are comfortable for me at 6ft 220 but I am not comfortable with their 100K price.
I am short, at 5' 7" so I can be mostly comfortable in anything. My daily driver is a 2024 Silverado with touch screens. I have shut off all of the nanny controls i.e auto braking, lane departure and cross traffic braking. and just get alerts I enjoy driving my Alero coupe cause it's a since to park and handles nicely. My 70 Supreme is more visceral to drive. Cars are getting harder to get in and out of as I age.
The leg room is slightly better in my 70 than my Challenger. Honestly they are close, not night and day. One thing for me being claustrophobic, is the windows open in my Cutlass vs feeling much more enclosed.
Back seat? The wife bought a BMW Z4. It has close to 400 horsepower, gets 30 MPG highway, has fantastic handling, and seats 2.
So the dog has to stay home.
The biggest changes to interior controls has been the complete switchover to computer screens. EVERYTHING is on a computer screen now. Fuel gauge, speedometer, engine temperature, oil pressure, tachometer, you name it. They just occupy a space on the screen. There are no separate gauges to replace anymore. Even the audio system is integrated into the screens.
Here’s a view of the dash in my ‘24 Buick Encore. Two computer screens, one in front of the driver and the other in the center. Both are behind one single, long piece of glass. The center one is a touchscreen. You can set up the driver’s display several different ways to show the particular details you want to see. My ‘23 Silverado goes even further in this regard by offering different “looks” for the displays, such as “classic,” “modern,” who knows what.
One thing that all of this has done is simply destroy the aftermarket audio system market. Vendors like Crutchfield now just say that the audio system in your modern car is not replaceable. No more pulling out the factory stereo and putting in a fancy aftermarket Kenwood or something.
As much as we lament these changes, it’s ALWAYS been this way. Joe P is celebrating the simplicity of his ‘85 Delta 88. But that car, in comparison to, say, a ‘65 Delta 88, was also quite a bit more modern, and curmudgeons in 1985 complained about how these newfangled cars are so difficult to deal with and why can’t we have the simplicity of cars of a generation ago. People in 1965 said the same thing and asked for their 1940s simplicity.
I happen to think that these modern cars are pretty cool. I love the Android Auto. Can’t put that in an ‘85 anything. I also like the backup cameras. They do help. In particular, on my Silverado, I love how you can put the camera into trailer mode, and it puts a little line on the screen that turns with the steering wheel. This makes it a one-person job to line up your hitch to the hitch on the trailer you want to tow.
I hope my computer screens never fail!
Last edited by jaunty75; Oct 12, 2025 at 04:56 AM.
Yeah, I owned a Challenger without a back up camera and the current one has it, night and day better. The car has blind spots, the side sensors alert us to vehicles in those blind spots, saved us a few times, lane changing. The auto dimming headlights and adaptive cruise are great. Also 40 mpg Imperial on highway trips is nice. Screens are an issue, delamination of screens is an issue, ours is starting, makes it go goofy, acts like you are touching it when you are not. We had to put it on navigation, won't allow input when moving. This car has been the least Dodgey Dodge, I have ever owned. If GM had nice looking vehicles, I would consider one, they do not.
Compared to the Challenger, the backseat legroom of my 69 is massive.
Many of us have been in both. A blatant lie like that isn't going to fly. You've likely got the Challenger seat full back, giving you FAR more front leg room. Equal front leg room in both cars, they'll have equivalent rear seat leg room. You don't get to penalize the new car for having more seat travel than the old ones.
Many of us have been in both. A blatant lie like that isn't going to fly. You've likely got the Challenger seat full back, giving you FAR more front leg room. Equal front leg room in both cars, they'll have equivalent rear seat leg room. You don't get to penalize the new car for having more seat travel than the old ones.
Agree 100%, I own both, very close on interior and trunk space between my 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S and my 2017 DodgeChallengerGT AWD. I can tuck a case of cans behind the seat in both cars with the seat in the normal position. The new Charger has an insane amount of room in the back and the hatch back trunk is huge. I will be taking a SO 6 pack for test drive. Add in an 8 speed auto, modern handling and AWD, I won't mind two modern Dodge's in the driveway.
The problem is not the tech itself. The problem is the lack of spare part support from the manufacturer that usually comes after 7 years of ownership. The days of driving a car for 50 years are getting shorter, let alone trying to repair one in your own garage. These cars are computers on wheels where all electronic controls running on a microprocessor bus. As far as an aftermarket stereo, you can always go stand alone. I have no use for all this modern stuff and wish they would just return to a simple car with a V8/ manual trans, and roll up windows. I will not purchase anything that costs as much as a house that you can't live in.
Agree 100%, I own both, very close on interior and trunk space between my 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S and my 2017 DodgeChallengerGT AWD. I can tuck a case of cans behind the seat in both cars with the seat in the normal position. The new Charger has an insane amount of room in the back and the hatch back trunk is huge. I will be taking a SO 6 pack for test drive. Add in an 8 speed auto, modern handling and AWD, I won't mind two modern Dodge's in the driveway.
Its actually the reason I don't own one, despite really liking them and spending a lot of time considering one. Its pretty much the same car. I just don't have space for two cars to occupy the same job in my tiny fleet (though I wish I did).
As Dylan sang, "The Times They Are a-Changin'". Even if you find a manual shift with buttons and *****, it's all smoke and mirrors. There are electronic switches and a sensors by the dozens.
I'm just happy to not have a Microsoft blues screen of death and have to disconnect the battery, wait 69 seconds and reboot. 😳
Its actually the reason I don't own one, despite really liking them and spending a lot of time considering one. Its pretty much the same car. I just don't have space for two cars to occupy the same job in my tiny fleet (though I wish I did).
My Wife has good taste and hates ugly vehicles, so the Challenger is basically her car. She joked, I shouldn't touch it, except to fix it and fill with gas. The Cutlass is my Summer car, a shitty Dodge Dakota is my Winter vehicle. I would like another mid 90's GMC Z71 with the Olds 403 sitting on my stand transplanted in it to replace the Dakota.
Many of us have been in both. A blatant lie like that isn't going to fly. You've likely got the Challenger seat full back, giving you FAR more front leg room. Equal front leg room in both cars, they'll have equivalent rear seat leg room. You don't get to penalize the new car for having more seat travel than the old ones.
I have been in the backseat of both cars numerous times. With the front seats all the way back in the Olds, I have can back there. Not comfortably, but it’s physically possible.
With the seats all the way back in the Challenger, there is ZERO room. None.
While I haven’t missed too many meals, I’m not “dimensionally challenged”. If I had to be a backseat passenger, and the driver needed the seats positioned as I do, I would want to be in the Olds every time without hesitation.
I drive the Olds with the seat all the back. I drive the Challenger with the seat just a little forward of all the way back. My 95 pound daughter is cramped back there when I drive. She has plenty of room in the Olds.
I told her let's look at a mid-seventies Oldsmobile B body. The look she gave me could incinerate a basketball, she want's something new.
Why does she want something new? Chrysler hasn't made anything good since the 90s, and from what I've heard it's nosedived even harder in recent years. Not to mention you'll take a big hit on depreciation and insurance costs.
I am 5'10" and weigh about 185 lbs. Seems to me more cars these days are built for 300 lbs folks. I feel like a kid getting in some cars.
I am close to 300. The thing I have noticed is what the seats will do. In an A body, I am down and back in the seat, and it's as good as it can be. In the Chargers I rent, I am not all the way down, nor all the way back, yet I can sit lower and further back than the A body.
This is important because I want to use the car's left arm rest. Previously, in good weather, it is elbow out the window on the sill. New cars have their sills higher so you can't do that.
The biggest changes to interior controls has been the complete switchover to computer screens. EVERYTHING is on a computer screen now. Fuel gauge, speedometer, engine temperature, oil pressure, tachometer, you name it. They just occupy a space on the screen. There are no separate gauges to replace anymore. Even the audio system is integrated into the screens.
Here’s a view of the dash in my ‘24 Buick Encore. Two computer screens, one in front of the driver and the other in the center. Both are behind one single, long piece of glass. The center one is a touchscreen. You can set up the driver’s display several different ways to show the particular details you want to see. My ‘23 Silverado goes even further in this regard by offering different “looks” for the displays, such as “classic,” “modern,” who knows what.
One thing that all of this has done is simply destroy the aftermarket audio system market. Vendors like Crutchfield now just say that the audio system in your modern car is not replaceable. No more pulling out the factory stereo and putting in a fancy aftermarket Kenwood or something.
As much as we lament these changes, it’s ALWAYS been this way. Joe P is celebrating the simplicity of his ‘85 Delta 88. But that car, in comparison to, say, a ‘65 Delta 88, was also quite a bit more modern, and curmudgeons in 1985 complained about how these newfangled cars are so difficult to deal with and why can’t we have the simplicity of cars of a generation ago. People in 1965 said the same thing and asked for their 1940s simplicity.
I happen to think that these modern cars are pretty cool. I love the Android Auto. Can’t put that in an ‘85 anything. I also like the backup cameras. They do help. In particular, on my Silverado, I love how you can put the camera into trailer mode, and it puts a little line on the screen that turns with the steering wheel. This makes it a one-person job to line up your hitch to the hitch on the trailer you want to tow.
I hope my computer screens never fail!
It's a matter of degree. A car in 1965 was far better suited to the modern road system than prior generations, and the extra "complexity" is minimal and still mechanical in nature. You could still fix the vast majority of its problems yourself without fancy scan tools. Fast forward to today and the same can't be said, they are much harder to work on in general because everything is do packed together, but you need programmers to install even basic parts like headlights. The benefits are minimal, anything built after the mid 60s can handle today's roads just as well as an average car built today.
There is also a longevity penalty, because there's significantly more electronics there's also a lot more failure points, and electrical problems are spendy to fix. Your screens by the way are inevitably going to fail, from what I've seen of TVs LCDs tend to last 7 to 10 years max. You'd be lucky to get that in a car which is a less than ideal environment. Joe's Deltas will stay on the road as long as he keeps them out of an accident because they are much more repairable.
I should have made something clear in my first post. With two full knee replacements and a 6'2" frame carrying 274 pounds (weighed just this morning) the legs won't bend enough to make any of those cabins feel comfortable. Every post on this thread is true reflecting the frustration with modern cars with perhaps the ones pertaining to '69 Charger back seats. On those, I have no comment as I have never been in one. The video has valid points and rings true to me as well. Consider cell phones and home computers and the fact that we EXPECT to replace them in three to four years because they will be outdated. Well, computers are an integral part of our vehicles now too, so...
Now convincing my wife to consider these facts and concede the point we have all made is still going to be almost impossible. She stated she will only buy a new car.
As far the back seat on Cutlass vs Challenger, I will test that today, 6' 220 pounds. I am doing the Winter tires on the Challenger, have move them both anyway. As far as these modern Dodge's having worse quality than the 90's Dodge's, BS. The 90's had sludging V6 and if the battery ran a bit low they forgot how to idle. My 2000 Dakota is a POS. The solenoid issues on the old 4 speed auto vs the robust 8 speed ZF alone is night and day better. My 2017 is supposedly the best year for quality but it went up after 2013 supposedly on these modern Challengers. A horn when basically new, a cracked plastic transmission pan and water pump and just routine maintenance like spark plugs and front brakes is all that has been done at 160,000+ km. I did the thermostat and crossover in aluminum vs plastic since I was right there. I have the PUG, weird cars never got them and a Dorman aluminum oil cooler and a cup as well. Will do Ruthieum plugs when it fails and probably 8 hole vs 4 hole injectors, another PUG upgrade. Helps having port vs direct injection. Other than the screen, a $350 replacement, still a nice car, inside out. We still have a 2008 LCD Sony going strong and has been very mistreated. Luck of the draw with electronics and modern vehicles.
I was right, being married 28 years, that is a big deal to me🫠. I got into the Challenger, put the seat ahead just enough for me to basically mostly extend my legs, knees didn't touch went to the other side, further back surprisingly, Wife usually has it crammed against the steering wheel, about where I would have it, knees just touch. My Cutlass, where I had my seat all the way back, knees hit big time. I moved it to where I probably should have had it, knees barely touch. If my car was a bucket and console car might give the Cutlass more of an advantage, mine has none, other than simplicity. How much this modern Challenger is like my classic Olds in style and dimensions is why I like it so much.
I should have made something clear in my first post. With two full knee replacements and a 6'2" frame carrying 274 pounds (weighed just this morning) the legs won't bend enough to make any of those cabins feel comfortable. Every post on this thread is true reflecting the frustration with modern cars with perhaps the ones pertaining to '69 Charger back seats. On those, I have no comment as I have never been in one. The video has valid points and rings true to me as well. Consider cell phones and home computers and the fact that we EXPECT to replace them in three to four years because they will be outdated. Well, computers are an integral part of our vehicles now too, so...
Now convincing my wife to consider these facts and concede the point we have all made is still going to be almost impossible. She stated she will only buy a new car.
Which gets back to the root of the problem, what is really driving her desire for a brand new car? In my experience with women it's usually one of two things. The first being the fear that a classic is fundamentally less reliable than something fresh out of the factory. The second is image projection/keeping up with the Joneses. The second one is going to be a much more challenging because vanity is connected to pridefulness, which is difficult to get someone out of. It's important to remember that men and women are different and don't approach or prioritize things the same way. In both cases the best solution might be to transition to a 70s Delta or 98 as your full time daily, replacing your truck, while she gets what she wants and experiences first hand what you've been saying. Once your Oldsmobile has been mechanically rehabbed you can drive it everywhere and use it to shuttle her back and forth to the repair shop when her precious new Stellantis Chrysler inevitably has problems, which should put a stark contrast on it. If you haul stuff around, you can always put a trailer hitch on it and get a utility trailer for when you need to do so. Those old boats had quite a towing capacity, for example according to the user manual my 78 98 has a max capacity of 6,000 gross trailer weight. Just something to consider.
I think her concern is the former not the latter. She has tolerated my Oldsmobiles in the past but has never been interested in them much less impressed or excited. I do not think any amount of reason would be able to dissuade her opinions. To your suggestion about replacing the truck with an Oldsmobile and "weaning" her into it, the idea is solid, but I can't go without the truck, I use it too much.
I think her concern is the former not the latter. She has tolerated my Oldsmobiles in the past but has never been interested in them much less impressed or excited. I do not think any amount of reason would be able to dissuade her opinions. To your suggestion about replacing the truck with an Oldsmobile and "weaning" her into it, the idea is solid, but I can't go without the truck, I use it too much.
It's good that it's the former, experience will be what will convince her. If it was the latter then nothing could. Out of curiosity, what do you use your truck for that a Delta or 98 with a utility trailer couldn't do? To be clear I'm also not suggesting going cold turkey on the truck, rather just phasing it out as the rehabbing moves forward. If she sees you daily driving your rehabbed Olds like you do with your truck and it not breaking down, that will make a difference.
It's good that it's the former, experience will be what will convince her. If it was the latter then nothing could. Out of curiosity, what do you use your truck for that a Delta or 98 with a utility trailer couldn't do? To be clear I'm also not suggesting going cold turkey on the truck, rather just phasing it out as the rehabbing moves forward. If she sees you daily driving your rehabbed Olds like you do with your truck and it not breaking down, that will make a difference.
I wonder if this a two way street as in the wife has the same amount of judgement levied against her if she's looking to do something? What I've found in my 4 decades of marriage? That answer is going to be NO. Men don't generally say, "She wanted to buy a special car and really wanted it. I told her she could not buy it as I determined "we" couldn't afford it. On the flip side though, how many times have you seen an ad that read, "Must go, wife says so."
My wife, going on 46 years of marriage doesn't generally want much, so if she wants something she gets it. We always discuss any big ticket purchase beforehand. As far as affording it, she has been the family financial advisor, so if she says we can afford it, we can afford it. In addition she has never suggested or demanded something I have needs to go.
Koda, the renting thing works both ways. At some point one needs to take ownership.
. What should take a few minutes in yesteryear time, this one will take about 20-30 minutes. Place front tire travel maximum left and peel back the inner fender and then pretend I"m in the circus...as flex armstrong.
