GoolzCutlass

Folks my 77 Cutlass has 102k miles. I have had it a few weeks and seeing as I am not sure when the last oil change was I am planning to do one tomorrow. What is the best possible oil to use. Amsoil synthetic? should I add zinc? I have ran half a can of seafoam in the last half a tank of gas. it never smoked at all after the seafoam was added to the oil. I took some long highway drives too afterwards. Also for a 77 350 engine what are the best plugs to put in here? Thank you

oldcutlass

I'd use Valvoline VR1 10w30 with no additives and a Wix or Napa Gold oil filter. AC or autolite spark plugs will work fine.

442Harv

I have been using Chevron Delo, diesel oil, in my Olds 442 , for years, and works great. But I talked to a oil rep from Brad Penn, at a car show, and he showed me the oil, they make for flat tappet cams, and has what these cars need. I bought some, and going to change over to it. They do not sell it in most stores, need to by from someone like Summit, Jegs. I bought mine in line Ebay, lots of different prices. check around.

GoolzCutlass

Thanks Harv. Which Bradd Penn oil should I try?

Sugar Bear

I'd go with a diesel rated 10w-30 in a colder climate and 15W-40 in a warm climate.

RROLDSX

Summit had Joe Gibbs on sale a couple of weeks ago.

442Harv

I bought the 20-50, but I live in Cal, maybe you would like 10-40, or 10-30. It is not a full synthetic, they call it part, synthetic. Myself, I would not use a full synthetic, in these old cars.

Fun71

I agree. My local auto parts stores have VR1 on the shelf, so no ordering, shipping charges, and waiting for it to arrive. And I can pick up the WIX oil filter at the same time.

w-30dreamin

I use the exact same as oldcutlass and Fun71.
Valvoline is a name brand with good reputation,the VR1 has all the zinc you need and Wix are some of the best filters on the market. Napa gold filters are made by Wix.
No need to mail order anything,visit your local Napa.

redoldsman

X4 on the Valvoline oil and Wix filter. That is all I have used in my 54. That zink additive is some expensive stuff and to be able to do without it really lowers the cost of an oil change.

oldcutlass

The problems with adding zddp, is that some of the additives do not mix well with some oils creating a situation in which the oils friction pkg quality is actually reduced.

1970cs

I use Quaker State defy 10W-30 it has 1200 ppm of zinc. And Puralotor filter.

Pat

Mike77

Now you guy's have me wondering. On my 100% stock rebuilt (2015) 403 cuin. Olds motor, should I be adding ZDDP next oil change? I have only about 500 miles since the rebuilt. I was going to change the oil next spring. My cars are currently tucked away for the winter.
Mike

Lsx442

Have you seen the Archoil motor oil additive. It's supposed to be able to be used in place of ZDDP and is supposed to create a coating around the metal it coats to reduce friction.

I was told to use 20w-50 but I worry it's too thick before warming up. My motor has around 500 miles since being rebuilt

droptopron

If you don't have a roller cam you should use it.

dc2x4drvr

Brad Penn here.

Mike77

No rolly cam. I will definitely put some ZDDP in next spring. Now do you think I may have caused excessive wear in the 500 miles? Other than pulling the valve covers and the lifters. That would be a major PITA on the passenger side ( A/C car) and she is show room pretty, how could I tell if I started to wear the cam lobes or lifter base excessively. I think I know the answer but defer to the experts here.

Mike

Fun71

I seriously doubt it. Smog era cam with low lift, slow ramp rate, and factory spring pressures. And it was broken in 100 thousand miles ago.

olds 307 and 403

I bought up all the old formula that was SL rated. Now they are SN rated and they changed the name to High Mileage Defy and the newest are green bottles. The Silver bottle VR1 here is also SN rated, the only SL rated oil is Motorcycle oil which starting to be SM rated like most Diesel oil. I can find GM EOS additive which is supposed to be good.

Mike77

Thanks for the heads up Kenneth. I will be sure to put in the additive for the future. Certainly can't hurt.
Mike

Tedd Thompson

No need to use a additive if the oil you use has 1200 ppm of zddp out of the jug.And as Other Eric said on some oils test have shown that additives actually cause more friction than that same oil without additive.

I use Rotella T 15/40 but not just for the high zinc content but for other properties it contains that helps my first generation Oldsmobile stay alive, it's not all about the zinc but the whole package and the engine it runs in..... Tedd

atkinsom

I use Valvoline VR1 20W50 up here in Canada, on my 455, during the summer months where it gets to 30+ Celsius on a semi-regular basis. I buy it at Walmart which generally has the best prices in our area.

olds 307 and 403

The Silver bottles of VR1 20W50 at Walmart is SN rated. This will be the next oil when my SL Defy runs out.
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...VtaxYLhiyukjTb

GoolzCutlass

Is that 20w50 VR1 good for cold and warm weather?

oldcutlass

Warm weather, use the 10w30 for cold weather.

w-30dreamin

Most research I have read says to avoid additives,use an oil that already has the zinc blended in as Eric mentioned.

GoolzCutlass

Has anyone used any of this stuff. I see walmart has it... https://lucasoil.com/products/hot-ro...w-30-motor-oil

redoldsman

Ian:

I have not used it but don't think I would be afraid to. I have always believed Lucas makes good products. How is the price? I would compare the price to the Valvoline.

midnightleadfoot

Love the comments on using diesel oils.. hint when the epa forced exhaust scrubbers on them the oils lost the zinc just like the automotive oils did..
Also check tht Valvoline v4 oil they make two. one is like most other of todays oils with low zinc. and then the offroad use racing oil that has it..
most of the chains carry the vr that is race oil only in name.
as far as flat tappet engines are concerned

If you use a zinc zpp additive you need to use non detergent oil as todays oils will wash/clean the zinc/phosphor off as fast as it is put on the part/surface..


Many get away with the normal low zinc oil. because their valve springs are worn out .
Oh, and the rocker ***** and rocker tips and valve tips will thank you also.
any part that is metal to metal sliding..


Many also get away with it only because they don't put a lot of miles on them. and are not daily's anymore, one long trip of a few 300+ miles days and those rocker ***** will be a nice shade of blue.

midnightleadfoot

I'd also not use synthetic in an engine that has tons of miles on it without knowing what they ran in it.. the synthetic will be thinner and will also clean all the crap out of the engine, and that sounds good until you find out that was all that was keeping it from leaking everywhere , Part of what those high-mile oils to is soften up the seals to help seal the engine and this helps once the oil has cleaned up, but is a band aid and the seals will soon start leaking or fall apart..

RROLDSX

Thanks for the info. Lead foot. I was under the impression the diesel oils still had zinc. I used Rotella 15-40 with Lucas oil additive on my new engine and zi think that might have wiped out my cam along with everything else. Brad Penn with zinc for the next one!

midnightleadfoot

I'm sure some of the oils still do have the zinc as the diesel's got the exhaust emissions cats iirc about 7-8 years ago.. but most chains carry what most of the diesels on the road are going to use, as the big rig guys are not walking into autozone/advanced/orilies/etc for oil.. they'll go to a fleet /big rig parts store to get oil/etc.. You'd have better luck at that type fleet store to get the older spec oil, than a automotive based chain.
heck dextronIII my local parts stores don't carry no more..

oldcutlass

Worn or mismatched parts create friction and heat on their own. If the push rod ***** are turning blue (get yer minds out of the gutter) there is a problem and its probably not oil related.

midnightleadfoot

Welp, the cam and lifters need the zinc and phosphor because of metal on metal sliding and without it lobes fail, but you don't think the same metal on metal under spring pressure wouldn't cause heat and wear.. ok. There was a reason even back in the day they offered grooved *****. and that was with wimpie cams and oil full of zinc..
Sure highway gears and lower rpm help, but my vehicles that at 65 was buzzing at 3200-3400 rpm, the rocker ***** turned blue, from use and this engine had valve spring oil cooler lines in the v/c.. it wan't a lack of oil.. these where sbc, not olds v8's if that matters.

oldcutlass

3200-3400 is by no means high RPM's, that's normal for a muscle/performance car. If the push rods were turning blue, it may not be oil related, it could be lack of oil pressure. Again, ball did not match the rocker socket, micro burrs in the socket, anything that could cause friction and heat, too much valve preload, cheap aftermarket parts, etc Turning blue is not the cause of the problem but the end result.

By the way, I've torn a bunch of Olds 350's down in the 70's and 80's because of valve issues. Some were abused and gummed up but others were not. I found concave lifters, flat cams, worn rockers and bases. This was how they wore out.

Back in the day factories didn't break in cams. The customers did by driving.

ELY442

The OP has a 77 Cutlass. I thought you dont have to put zinc in a car that has a catalytic converter?

oldcutlass

I don't think he has a converter any more. In addition all oils had zinc in them back in 77.

midnightleadfoot

The zinc was removed when the epa required emission parts to be warrantied for 100k.. before that the oems didn't care if the converter lasted past the short warranty they offered.

Koda

My OEM used to run every engine at the engine plant before shipping. This was after the "spinner" that spun the engine with air pressure drive on a starter gear. Now, they run about every 20-50. They all get the spinner. Sounds like the engine ate Mexican for two days and is farting it all out when they do it. Then the cars get run through confirmation after build, and driven out to the yard, onto the train/truck, and onto the lot, so they end up with 5 miles or so on them. We put about 2 gallons in the tank on the inspection lines for this. Some dealers fill them up.

olds 307 and 403

I have yet to see an Olds V8's have a flat cam or worn out lifters, I am talking original non rebuilt motors from the 70's. The only cam that was changed was for a lifter tick, I would bet new rocker arms were all that was needed, cam and lifters looked OK. The great sbc from that era was a different story, many, many totally flat lobes. No wonder oldscutlass runs a Chevy in his Cutlass, if he saw that. I saw how poorly made the sbc was made from that era, why I still don't care for that V8. I also saw a few 454's that spun bearings as well. I noticed some lifter noise with SN 10W40 with my huge cammed, high spring pressure 260, switching to SL 10W40 seems to have fixed it. I also like NGK XR45 plugs the best for a stock motor.