I am this guy here. And believe you me i would rather spend around 5-1k for a repop H/O intake instead of trying to hunt down a real one and spend 12-15k that people ask on them. I know my H/O is real because i have the paperwork and it is documented, but i am damn well not going to spend more on one freaking part that i could buy a restored car for.....

 

Also i am surprised that no one brought up Thornton's OAI hoods? Just playing Devils advocate here .

Like other people are saying... if you dont know what you are looking at then who cares? People are trying to make a goldmine out of tinfoil. I am sure if you had the skill to do the same you would think about doing it as well.

Does this also fall under the fact of when people try to sell bucket seats that it out of a 442 but it really came out of a cutlass?

What i guess what i am really trying to say here is if people are going to spend money on the stuff people arent going to stop making it. ESPECIALLY if it sells for 10X the amount...

 

jumping back in here..... I bet 8 out of 10 people couldn'te tell the difference between a repo W27 cover and a real one unless side by side - and tons of folks put those on (And I'm ok with that). And having a repo W30 mainfold and a couple of real ones myself I know I'd even be hard press to tell which was which without having them side by side.

 

That would clearly be fraud. If you believe it's ok to do this then I would never buy a thing from you.

 

I wasn't taking it personally, I was just pointing out how I'd react if someone was pushing "correctness" about my car, to my face. I don't hold any rare car at a high standard. They are just cars. I love them because of the way they look, the way they sound, the way they smell (yes, even a moldy smell), the way they handle on the road. Even if I was overly wealthy, I still wouldn't buy a car because of it's rarity or value. I'd buy it because I like the way it looks.

 

Allyolds68 I buy sell and trade a lot of stuff. I'm very honest and stand by what I sell. I got above and beyond to make sure when I make a sale who ever buys it is as happy as me on the deal. I'm just saying I would not get caught in all the hype sometimes it's fine to tell a little white lie. This is why I'm not a numbers match correct guy. I sell what I sell as what it is. I don't care if the heads are 6's or 4's I make sure who ever buys it gets their moneys worth based on product and not rareness. That's how it should be these are cars . The whole rareness this has been blown out of proportion by auctions who are looking to sell something diffrent than the garden variety cutlasses chevelles etc. I'm sorry but I cut up a 442 deckild and did away with the emblems and those emblems went on my tool box which I sold and they where mint. This is how little I care about rareity. They are just parts that's all they are. There is also a slew of other parts I have done things that would make people cringe.

 

Like me giving away an OAI hood cleaner, an NOS driver side Cutlass S grille for a 70 and a set of w/z manifolds?

Parts come and go is right....

 

this is not an attack on you but your last two sentences are disturbing to me. when younger people don't seem to take interest in preservation of these older cars and think that a part is just another part that can be stamped to make it look right... and correctness means nothing...the future of historic olds cars will be hurt

 

theses are cars not the liberty bell. Those special emblems and parts where just number and letter to gm to sell more cars they where not created so that some day they would change the world. Im all for restoring cars but the numbers match deal etc. is not my gig. I have a friend who drag races a real deal 71 w30 442. Im sorry but to me a car is a car i bought my car with one purpose in mind to use it and beat the tar out of it. I restored , I race it, I have crashed it , and re fixed it . They where original once It is nice to say i have a 69 h/o or a rallye 350 they are nice and limited production cars but to me they are cars. Im sorry when i go to car shows i pull up in my cutlass which always catches good attention due to a really nice lous lopey idle but as soon as the olds purist come over they just snub me when they see i have a roll bar, fiberglass front end , and a slew of other modifications. I get more p[rais from the chevy guys for running an olds in my olds. Also consourse restore cars borderlining museum pieces just dont cut it for me so to me perserving old detroit muscle is significant but the little details mean nothing to me. these cars where usually modified on day two by their owners. I work on cars day in and out and to me cars are cars. I appreciate a piece of machinery but i appreciate it even more when i see someone else's flair on it. It's like looking at a car in a showroom its usually pretty boring add some wheels and odds and ends and it changes . My buddy has a real 68 h/o same guy who races that 71 w30 it's a very rare car but it just does not do it for me i appreciate the history of the cars but if i had an h/o i would probably change the wheels drop a built engine and race it . The people who hunt for the corrct number match parts and this and that are the same people who bring the prices up and make it impossible for the normal guy to buy a nice 442 and restore it and race it etc. To me thats no fun build it race it drive it enjoy it dont worry about the pitty stuff because it was only original once . Chances are these cars where bought by kids/ young adults with the same mentality as me so in reality im keeping the spirit alive im usuing my machine just as it was back in the day with out a care. You think thses cars where bought by people who cared if the car had the original intake or wheels or cam i doubt it. Im not perserving history im enjoying a piece of of an era i did not have the joy of enjoying and i intend to have that same free minded spirit many guys had back then. Plus it just looks Bad@** when im hangin it side ways roasting the hides . Thats what these cars are to me.

 

Excellent responce ...
I am Buying a Car to Use. Take the OAI Hood, I will take a Thornton hands down because 40years Newer for 1, Plus the Toolings Up todate.
would be proud to say its replacement Hood.... A1
When I bought My HD first thing took off were stock Items. Its about personalize and enjoyment.
Now its stock HD Items sit on shelf never to go back on Bike.

BJ auctions and E bay ... Is Pie in the Sky....... What are We going to leave to Younger Gen. Greed and Profit tops all.


"Greed is the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort. It is applied to a markedly high desire for and pursuit of wealth, status, and power."

 

Or like my friend who has a 10 second 1970 w-30 post that was originally a 4 speed car LOL. Talk about RARE!!!!!

And hey no need to attack me when i own a Rallye and a H/O. I daily drive both of them good sir...

 

Not attacking you i actually was using you as an example . You have two rare cars you drive them you enjoy them you use them as you should .I did not mean to offend. They are nice but just because you can't find a right piece does not make it any less rarer and I don't think you let that bug you for one minute.

 

ok, if a car was REALLY just a car to you then you wouldn't even be owning/driving what you have. You would own a very civilian car and not change anything about it. Clearly you appreciate cars and your passion is to modify them to your liking. Fortunately at my age I have a couple of cars, one is numbers matching, one is more of a day two car and my daily driver is modified to the nth degree. But I still respect trailer queens and a 442 with a rat under the hood - its the taste of the owner at that time.

The rarity of these parts should be respected. The intent of Oldsmobile selling cars 40 years ago doesn't mean we should disregard what remains of them now. I guess owning W30s has put a little bit of an expectation on myself to preserve them - yet I still drive mine and enjoy them. I think its a shame when folks belittle a modified car or a car that isn't perfect yet I don't feel we should belittle those who take the time to bring a car back to what it was originally as that is an accomplishment itself. Look, some guys pay big bucks for trailer queens but some folks also pay big bucks for pro- touring cars that they have no idea what to do with. There will always be some people who know how to wrench, some who don't and some who just rather pay someone to do it. What's important is in the end they are all enjoying the car hobby.

 

I agree...you want to put a chevy in your olds...fine..you want to grind off all casting numbers to save weight in your race car...fine, you want to customize...great... you want to buy an ORIGINAL you should be able to do that also

 

Once a car is repainted it is no longer original if you look at how rough/crude/lacking quality the original H/O cars were, and how over restored most cars are who cares if a number on dist or carb was restamped. Most cars that I have seen that were listed as numbers matching had been blocked with two part high sold primer and were painted in a modern paint base clear.

 

Truth is I'm tired of overinflated prices for parts. My brother is very much into the numbers matching but we had this very conversation this weekend and I told him I've had enough. The parts from here on in that goes into my 69 Cutlass S will be what I can afford and if that is chevy, clone or any other compatible part then so be it. I love olds but if he wasn't around to give me some of his original parts or sell them for a case of beer I couldn't afford the olds stuff. It's crazy sometimes and I know it's supply and demand but a car is a car that should be enjoyed...not put you in the poor house. Anyway there's alot of good honest olds guys out there that won't scam you, you just have to know who they are.

 

married?? go tell your wife your going to pop the diamond out of her ring so you can buy some stuff....just tell her your going to replace it with a fake...she won't mind


fake rolex watches sold in NY for 50 bucks then passed along as real... how are you going to tell? going to pay 5 grand for something worth 50 bucks? nothing wrong with counterfeits?

 

Now that's a funny thought.

 

as long as she dont know about it why not lol.

 

I suppose technically a zirconia wouldn't be a forge but,... pretty sure the wife isn't going to be happy with anthing but what was orginally in the ring setting

 

I know this is off topic but how would you guys deal with this . This is my good friends 68 h/o all original unmolested 48k miles original hoses , plugs wires even exhaust and its still holding up. this is a true survivor . Personally i would not restore this car . I think as a car that has aged well it's a testament to how gm built cars. i would like to hear what you all think.

 

I have no problem with someone selling knockoffs for $50. The person who tries to flip them for $5K is the one committing fraud.

Unfortunately, you continue to refuse to answer the very direct question and instead offer somewhat unrelated "examples". I'll try one final time:

Do you consider a brand new REPRODUCTION part to be a counterfeit? Is it acceptable to make and buy a repro W-30 intake, knowing that it's a repro? What happens if the next buyer tries to pass it off as real? Is the original manufacturer the one at fault?

 

I think the repop intake falls slong the lines of re creating stampings on heads . Which is a forged part based on what i have read.

 

So much passion in our hobby! That is good.

 

No - I do not hold the manufacturer at fault.

 

Hell, I traded the first wife in she was an original but a factory second. Now I have found a replacement and she has no blemishes and in fact she is more beautiful than the original. I ask you, is there anything wrong with introducing her as my wife. Introductions now ---- Hi I am Greg this is my second wife --- There is no point in revealing this information to strangers. All my close friends know I am married for the second time and might even introduce me as Greg and his wife. That said I am in no way trying to pass her off as my first wife and if circumstances are right I would reveal the truth. There is usually some strange story for one side or the other but the only thing that seem to hold steady is the pure truth in the motives of the individuals.
I will buy anything that will get the restoration done. I have a lot to do!
I will not try to sell it as an all original and if I did the guy that’s making the parts is not at fault.
Buyer beware!
Seller be honest!

 

The thing that really gets me is people try to find number's matching equipment for there car to make it all original. Guess what, if it wasnt on your car when you bought it and know for 100% fact that it is original to the car, then you are frauding your car out just as much as someone who restamped their part i say.
These cars were meant to be driven and have babies in the back of, I say treat them as such. Both of my cars are rare and one of them is numbers matching drivetrain, and i daily drive the both of them.

 

I am not sure if i am a Fraud by proxy 46 years later?
My car came with no origional engine, a 455 in a 1967 442 but did come with what is listed below. I found a 1967 400 and if it has no problems it will go in by me with no regrets. To bad I found no build sheet or protecto plate info.
The thing is I have no info on what was installed 46 years ago. I am just going to reinstall everything I found in it the exception being the period correct engin I found.
Hmm what if my electric rear antenna is not working and i put a replacement in is it ok?

Soft Ray Tinted Glas
Drivers Seat Is Power

Passinger Seat Reclines
Delux front seat belts

 

I am not very familiar with the manifold...is the repo part cast with all the same markings ( date,part number casting clock etc).. as the original

 

There are differences as I mentioned before but without comparing the two side by side 90% of folks would not be able to tell the difference. The only obvious difference is the part number on the bottom, it does not exist on the repo but once installed you can't see it on the real one anyway.

One thing I tell people is my car is restored to as original - as far as I know. I tell them there are many parts that have been replaced or I had to find that are either used or reproductions but it is an original faithful restoration.

Sicky Olds, I admire your stance with enjoying your cars but in reality those of us up north can not daily drive our cars. Its not practical to drive on salted roads with these cars.

 

Seriously? You're going to compare your commitment to your wife to the commitment to your car?

Once again.....it's just a car. If you're married, your wife is your life.

 

I know sir, i am originally from Ohio on the snow belt you know .

And no you cant be 100% sure that plate is original to your car, unless you have known the car since day 1, just saying. What if someone transplanted the plate at some point on to another 67 Olds. Might be pushing my point a little far but still, i hope you get the point

 

I had the car before I had the wife

 

And I owned some expensive guitars before I met mine, but I still wouldn't put them ahead of her.

 

http://www.thepartsplaceinc.com/ocat...ake%20manifold

Yes, this is intended to be a reproduction of the 1970 W-30 intake. A trained eye can see the differences from stock. The date is not visible with the intake installed on either an original or repro (and I'm pretty sure the repro does not have the date). Please explain how this "reproduction" is different from a "counterfeit" H/O intake. Both have small differences from original that a trained observer can spot (but a casual observer is unlikely to spot).

 

X2 Well said

 

I was not going to bring this up because I am not a lawyer, but I do know this...certain parts etc that are reproduced have to be licenced, I cannot start my own business reprodcing a new honda engine for example complete with serial numbers etc this is acounterfeit...nor can I sell my own hand made a/c delco pf-24 filters... Napa cannot sell its own line of parts that contain original factory identifications, they can rebuilt ones though...now an individual selling a few parts thats thare forged,altered etc for a company not in existence anymore is not going to get GM lawyers involved because its small scale... selling but a forgery is a forgery

 

All he is doing is rebuilding parts, just to the customers needs.... Modifying them, just like porting and polishing heads...

 

my comment you replied to is in responce to Joe P's question about a reproduced GM part (probably needing licencing at the least) I am not even mentioning the business of altering/restamping etc...parts

 

Pogo I would bot go there about napa. The re package and re lable a ton of stuff so yeah even parts vendors forge stuff. Napa I know for a while sold the points conversion and it was a re labled re boxed mallory unit but only more expensive.