4-ever-olds

Check out this 70 442 conv on ebay!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-...f916c4e2#v4-32

I apologize if this car has already been posted on here, but I had to share.
All I can say is, Wow!

joe_padavano

Pretty car, BUT...

"...TRUE TRAILOR QUEEN,,,"

Why is that a good thing? And what is it about sellers of supposedly high dollar cars who can't spell (or even use spellcheck)? "Trailor"????? Give me a break. Of course, it would also be nice if the seller were able to find his CAPS LOCK button...

"...THIS SPECIAL ORDER 442 IS 1 OF 2 CONVERTIBLES PAINTED IN EXTREMELY RARE RALLEY RED PAINT..."

One of two???? And we know this HOW, exactly? The noise you hear is the BS alarm going off.

"...IDENTIFIED BY THE - ON THE BODY TAG WHERE PAINT CODE SHOULD BE INDICATING A SPECIAL ORDER PAINT. THE ONLY WAY TO GET YJIS PAINT COLOR WAS TO ORDER IT..."

News flash: The only way to get ANY paint color on a new car was to order it. That has to be one of the stupidest statements I've ever seen in a car ad.

"...THE CAR IS COMPLETELY STOCK AND IS BETTER THEN THE WAY IT CAME FROM THE FACTORY..."

Any car that is better THAN the way it left the factory again likely had all the rare options added during a "restoration". As I've said before, I don't think I've ever seen a body off resto of a low-optioned car.

"...THIS 442 HAS WON NUMEROUS PRESTIGES AWARDS..."

But apparently not any PRESTIGIOUS awards.

"... I WILL HELP WITH TRANSPORTING CAR AT BUYER EXSPENSE..."

Wow, talk about going out of your way.

68conv455

I think its great that it will win this "20008 NATIONAL AWARD(RANSOM E. OLDS)" in 17,999 years. It may win the Nobel Peace Prize for its future greatness as well.

agtw31

i believe that car sold at atlantic city auction for 55k a couple years ago

MX442

OK, so the guy can't write a proper ad... Is the car worth $100k?

Since we're nitpicking, it doesn't have the "correct" fenders. What is up with all these restos plastered in stickers, and paint globs underneath? I think it is a little over-exaggerated.

z11375ss

If you don't want the car please stop making fun of it. I'm just trying to sell it.

z11375ss

I'm hoping the Federal Reserve will step in with an Oldsmobile stimulus package, (and a spell check crisis management team!)

mugzilla

x 2 , looks very welll detailed ...

I thought it sold for $75 OOO ...

Musta been a stroker ...

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post106874

agtw31

is the car offended?

Olds64

Wow! It is a nice car, but $100k is alot of money.

z11375ss

Yes, the car was offended. Antifreeze and wiper fluid everywhere.

jslabotsky

Now that's funny right there I don't care who ya' are!

Concours restorations aren't my cup of tea, but WOW! The detail is pretty remarkable. It's kind of like hopping in the Wayback Machine and seeing what these cars were like when they were in showrooms. Granted, the real thing probably wasn't quite so nice, but still...

I did not think these cars were bringing upwards of $70K. As much as I love them, it's hard to fathom spending Porsche money on a 442. Give me a nice low option Cutlass for 1/10 the price.

Joe P's skepticism is understandable. You see some wild claims on these cars. Agree 100% that being a trailer queen is no good. IMO a car you're afraid to drive isn't worth having. Then again this is coming from a middle-class slob who doesn't have 75 large to drop on a 442. I might feel differently if I had lots of cash. And hey, better it be kept as a museum piece than sent to the crusher.

Bobsw32

It looks like a very very very nice restoration....I am impressed with the amount of details......I like how it was done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
When I purchased mine new it had bleeder valves on the master cylinders, no humps on the fenders, and my rear sway bar was black, and had 3 serrated grounding springs around the cowl seal.

TK-65

The amount of paint daubs and inspection marks under it are ridiculous.

oldsdroptop

Only thing I can say is...why would you leave drum brakes on it and do ALL that work...you ever try to stop close to 4000lbs of car going over 100mph with drum brakes.....better have a good life insurance policy....and good luck explaining to Hagerty's how it got totalled. I guess they were chasing originality more than anything, But what did they cost in 70? Probably $28.00. I guess hindsight is 20/20. I always look for a BB engine, a turbo 400, front disc brakes and air. Just my wish list when I buy a classic muscle car. Just my 02 cents. Oldsdroptop

Allan R

First of all, if the tone in this reply sounds defensive, it's not intended to; it's just meant to point out a couple of issues we all seem to point out to each other from time to time. Email communication seems to have the most potential for being misunderstood, because we never know how someone else could interpret or react to it. That being said, read on.....

Regardless of the typos in the auction (and I think they've been picked them apart quite a bit), you know that most computers have a default NOT TO CHECK FOR SPELLING MISTAKES WHEN ALL CAPS ARE USED - RIGHT? Normally, all caps are used to emphsize or "speak loudly". I think the seller was just trying to emphasize. Don't tell me that none of us haven't made spelling mistakes that you accept and move past, because the intention was simpy to communicate. And, when you're posting to most web pages, there's no spell check either.

This is one really nice car. It would probably be a different story if you were talking to the seller in person. Hey, he put in his phone number. Call him and find out. I won't because I simply can't afford to buy this car.

It's just so hard to write something that everyone will understand exactly the same way. With the exception of possibly not understanding his cowl decal codes, I think the only issue the seller is trying to get across is that he's extremely proud of the way the car was restored and is being presented. I also think it is well presented. Might have been a good idea to have someone proof read the auction before it was finalized though. One thing missing: trunk pictures. Wonder if the seller has a picture library of the restoration as it progressed?

Over 100,000.00 in restoration cost? Could very well be given the amount of details. Also wouldn't be surprised if there was over 1000 hours in body work involved to get perfection. High end restorations can easily cost more than the value of the car. Do you have to be nuts to do this? No, just rich. Well, maybe a little nuts too.

But tell me one thing, all who read this; aren't you glad someone took the bull by the horns and restored a beautiful Olds to better than new? C'mon, we all know it's easier to look for flaws. Lets look on the positive side of this: Someone may end up buying a car most of us only dream of owning or sitting in. BTW, I didn't know that Thornton's was world class. I know they do extremely nice work and specialize in Olds, but this is the first time I've heard them referred to this way. Maybe they should be if this is how they turn them out.

No, I wouldn't be afraid to drive this car. Yes, it's drop dead gorgeous. But you know what? If it was done once, you can always do it again. Just be a little choosy on what days you want to drive it.

One thing that the seller has recognized: the market will determine the price. He has set an opening bid price (obviously to try and recoup some of his restoration expense), but was smart enough to see what others may be willing to part with by also including a "Make an Offer" option. Anyone brave enough to test the water by offering the 55 or 75k it may allegedly have sold for in the past? It would be like buying at BJ wouldn't it? Not quite, at least you wouldn't be paying a 10% buyers fee, and have to pay to get buyer privelege that BJ requires.

This took a little time to think about and write. Hopefully there are no spelling mistakes. I hope Fred gets top dollar for his car. Personally, I know that Oldsmobile doesn't have a large market niche out there. But when you see one like this, you'd have to have antifreeze for blood not to appreciate its style, power, comfort, class and presentation.

citcapp

Well written Alan

mugzilla

I've been watching this car. I talked to the guy as I have a '70 I'd like to detail and this one has all the details...

He told me he would sell for $75,000 which I thought he got in his last auction ...

Nilsson

I would much rather have 5 nice 15,000.00 drivers then 1 75,000.00 car that must be hermetically sealed.

stevengerard

I sent him an email as well and he was kind enough to not only respond but to give me his phone number if I had any questions. I too think this is restored to the extreme but I understand there are folks who go this route. I thought this car sold a few weeks ago, not sure if this is the same person selling it again because the other sale fell through or is it the new person trying to flip it? The car is awesome.

Believe me it is very easy to be carried away with a restoration. I am spending probably 4 times what I thought I would spend on my restoration and about time you get near the end it is hard not to say "might as well replace that too as it is easier now" it is a bit easier to swallow for me as I have been buying parts for 15 years and have spent over two years restoring it (at a shop not even me doing the work). The owner of this car told me where to get all those labels, for 45 bucks you can crawl around your car and label everything like it came from the factory and they are plastic coated to last a long time - might sound goofy but it is something I can do little by little that won't affect the performance or any real appearance until someone crawls and looks under it. I think it will be a fun thing to do, I'm going to do a lot of the little interior details, under the hood and suspension stuff myself and this will be done then as well.

TK-65

I know the place he got them from. And unless you have a buildsheet for your car, the sticker set will not match anything from your car. So odds are the codes on all those stickers are wrong.

joe_padavano

I've probably been most critical of this ad and car, so let me try to expand a little. Reasonable people can debate whether or not this car is worth $100K or not. In the end, the only thing that matters is that one person with the financial resources DOES think it's worth that much. As for the typos and all-caps, well, in this price neighborhood, perception is everything. The fact that the seller is asking $100K and can't be bothered to correct careless mistakes in the ad calls into question whether there are similar careless mistakes in the resto. This is not necessarily a fair assessment, but it's reality. Would you go on a job interview with typos in your resume? Of course not.

Similarly, comments like the "one of only two with Ralley Red paint" cannot be substantiated and really do raise red flags. First, the -- paint code only proves that the car had special order paint - it doesn't even prove that the car was originally Ralley Red. Given that it has had a total body-off resto, and similarly appears to have been "over-restored", we have no proof that the car even was Ralley Red originally. Similarly, there is no way of proving that only two convertibles were painted that color, and frankly I doubt that is the case. To make such a statement without proof again raises questions.

Finally, as with the 68 442 that I saw at Hershey, the fact that $100K or more was spent on a resto certainly does not mean that a car is worth that much. The 68 with allegedly $150K of receipts only proves that the owner had more money than brains. He could have spent $1M on a resto, but the car would not have been worth that much.

Of course, my opinions are meaningless and all that matters is that one buyer agrees with the seller. Good luck with selling.

Oldsguy

I don't like cars restored to that level but should leave each to their own vices. If I had that kind of money who knows what I would spend it on? I never understood the paint daubs and chalk marks though.....

Allan R

I don't think even the restorers know what the paint daubs and chalk marks are. Best way to find out would be to ask someone who worked on an assembly line. There must be some reason, I don't think GM, Ford, Chrysler just let people walk around the factory making grease pencil marks wherever they felt like.

Does having all these little "tags" and markings actually give you points in judging? If it doesn't, I really can't see the reason for it either.

citcapp

Dan,

We could always devise own panit marks on 46-48 Olds and Market them as factory correct, wink, wink.

Nilsson

When I got my car it had a mud dauber nest on the fire wall, maybe I shouldn't have removed it.

TK-65

The paint daubs are inspection marks. Along the way guys made sure the parts were bolted on. Some marks denote what shift the part was made. Critical parts that must be installed properly may have had a guy that did a second check, and he noted that he did the check with a mark.

A lot of the other "letter" marks mean nothing. I make transmissions for Ford and a lot of them have writing on them. Sometimes its for a model change, a reject, or something else.

There were also inspection stamps used.



Now, all those nice paint marks on the suspension of the topic 442 would have been covered up at the blackout process. That was where a cheap coat of black paint was sprayed on the frames. So technically a "factory" restored car must have this nasty coat of paint on all the suspension parts.

Pic of the process at Olds in 1965

Allan R

TK 65
Nice illustration and detail information. So, in the long run, you're saying if the car is blacked out on the bottom, it's more factory correct than the ones that have all those mystery tags showing? Neat that the inspection line would have a 2 stage check.

I know that Olds started a Sentinel Program for quality control that was fully operational in 1972. I don't suppose that would do away with all the inspection marks done on the assembly line? Or would that be the 3rd and final check done when the car passed its final inspection?

stevengerard

great point Joe, money spent on a car does not (and should not) always dictate future value, just look at our housing market. If you spend 50k refurbishing a car worth 20k that's fine if you like it or have the money to spend but don't expect it to be valued at that because you spent it.

I had a 1970 Buick Wildcat the only year it came with a 455 and it was a unique sleeper yet my dream car was always a 442. So at the time I weighed my choices. Spend 10k refurbishing a car that would be worth 4k or sell it and add that to the 10k and buy a 442 - I chose the 442

TK-65

I really dont know what the process at Olds was. But those markings were applied for that reason, a check for a part or a assembly installed.

Some tags are legit, they are detailed in the assembly manuals, ie spring and shock tags. But others like sway bar tags, A arm tags, and brake line tags are suspect.

And yes a factory correct chassis had a coat of tar like black paint. It was applied to cover up any bare metal and any places where the frame got nicked. This process is called out in the assembly manuals. Even says where to paint and where to stay away from.

The bottom of the bodies and the firewall got a coat of black paint. Olds didnt mask these areas as the car was painted so the bottom and top of the firewall got overspray. Olds then blacked out the firewall, thus all those neat chalk marks on the firewall got covered up.

Aceshigh

You and I think alike. If I can't ENJOY my investment, it's more of a liability at that point.

It's a nice car though. Good luck to the seller either way.

TK-65

People enjoy their cars in many different ways. Some love driving them every day, some love to keep them spotless and trailer them to shows.

mugzilla

This car can hang with any car made for$75000 ...

I always thought that most restos' are a good deal compared to the a new car ...

A car like this should be good to go for awhile ...

mugzilla

But then there is the doing ...

I'll bet this car has a new car smell that you only get when you replace EVERYTHING...

An Old car new car smell ...

Aceshigh

Except a 2009 Z06 Corvette.

Unless you meant "hang out" with any car. Then i agree.

Nilsson

That is just my personnel opinion, not to say the car is not worth the price. I have the means but I still wouldn't pay $75000.00 for any one car classic or new.

mugzilla

I have to admit I've seen some good deals lately, and I guess I could do the same resto for $50,000 or less ...

That's it ...

Like if the big titty girl has the choice of riding with you or the vette ' ...