Looking for some advise for A/C options.

1967 442 - Car came with factory A/C. Local shop says there are so many leaks he can not even test it. He wants me to replace EVERYTHING except dash controls. That works out to about $1,000.

Curious about replacing complete system with - Old Air Products, Vintage Air, Classic Air.

Any feedback would be appreciated - particularly how the install went.

Motor - Done! (Rebuilt three times to get it right)
Transmission - Done (even added electronic switch pitch controller)
Radiator - Replaced with aluminum unit
Wiring - Done (replaced complete from front to rear)
Instrument Panel - re-chromed by Ron Roth
Rear end - Posi-trac added
Front end - replaced all (converted to front disk brakes)

It is A/C time now

 

Three years in a row I have tried to get my factory air working, guess what - this summer will make 4. So I can see why your guy is saying replace everything at once. I'm trying to stick with the original looking equipment and the R12 as it cools better. Though I have heard many many people say the newer stuff may not be as cold but works fine. I am not familiar with to many of the aftermarket companies but I have replaced my hoses with new repos an they look fine and work great, now to find the leak elsewhere.

 

I have spoken with both Vintage and Classic air. They do not have a kit for Cutlass/442. They do have one for GTO/Lemans. They both suggested a 'universal' type kit, which doesn't work for me. The GTO kit would at least get you the evaporator and basic ducting under the dash. The controls would have to be custom modified though. This has kept me from moving forward on my 67 as I don't have the time and desire to build my own kit for $1500+. Anyone else done this?

Tim

 

Remove it all and send it in to Vintage. Reuse all the OEM components just have it restored....Thats what I did with mine. They cut the OEM end fittings off of the lines. Made new lines and welded the OEM ends on back on. Good as new. Cut open the dryer replaced the descant welded it back up. Rebuilt the pump, new clutch and wire harness. New O-ring kit and oil for which ever refrigeratiant you're using. Tell them where the original rubber insulation goes on the lines if it originally had any. Its usually missing. They will not include this unless you tell them. Commercial high density foam covers work but they are split whereas the OEM is applied before the ends are crimped on.

 

I did the same on my '71 Corvette as droldsmorland did. I specified that I didn't want them to tamper with the original sticker on my compressor. Everything came back, it went together (this is 10 years ago now) and it all works fine to this day (converted to R134 as well). I like the idea of maintaining the original look and having those parts rebuilt did it.

Randy C.

 

I am in the process of rebuilding my A/C now. Mine is a 71 Cutlass. My system was open for probably 20 years and I debated wheather to go aftermarket or restore to original.I posted a thread as you did asking for advice. I got lots of replies and decided to go with the factory type system w/R134a. I am in the process of doing it so don't have the results yet. I took apart all the under dash parts and cleaned-made sure ok,etc. I took the evaporator into a local a/c shop and had checked-it was questionable so I decided to replace the evaporator, hoses and the condensor (Classic Auto Air has a condensor made to work better for 134, don't know about for your 67). I am either going to replace or rebuild the compressor and have the POA valve recalibrated for R134a. Other guys have noted that they have had Ok luck w/the original hoses, others have recommended replacing them because they leaked using 134. I think your 67 has a different type system (maybe STV? don't know for sure) I like the looks of original instead or using the smaller sanyo compressor. I just figure that parts in the future should always be available for a GM system if are needed in 20 years or whatever and availibilty may be a issue for aftermarket-especially if that company goes out of business in the future. I started a thread on my project, you can look at it if you want. Lady72nRob71 has a real good one-"into the unknown-under hood restoration" and O's_Car has a good one about putting in a aftermarket system. You can search air conditioning on this site and find a bunch. Good luck. Start a thread when you do it any everyone will watch it and comment.

 

I like the original look myself. If you have access to R-12 i would go that way. If you don't i would upgrade to 134. To upgrade to 134 you need new hoses, a bigger condenser, rebuilt compressor, and recalibrated. One thing is for sure. You need to remove the entire system and clean/rebuild everything. You may be surprised what you will find in the evaporator box. I just started to restore an A/C condenser from a 70 but i will keep the R12. I think i have enough to last my life time.

 

I have a 72 with factory air and I get 30 degree air from my vents, in south Florida. Mine was converted to 134A, but uses the original hoses as far as I can tell. I was told by one of the A/C companies that NEW R12 hoses will leak if you run 134A, but used ones, because they have had the oil running through them are sealed up and unless they are cracked or have a hoile they will work fine. Mine do not leak. I have installed a recalibrated POA valve and a Classic Auto Air Cross Flow Condenser, designed for 134A. This cools the 134A and I don't lose much cooling when I stop at a traffic light. If you do it yourself, remember that it takes less 134A than R12. Most advise between 70 and 80 % of the R12 charge. If you do the same amount as R12 it will be overcharged and will not cool very well.

 

Also be aware of the difference in oils used for each Mineral vs Ester vs PAG. 134a typically uses PAG. R12 uses mineral. The two don’t mix and you will starve the pump if converting from R12 to 134a and don’t take the necessary steps to insure proper pump lube. Ester oil is said to be compatible with both and as such is generally accepted with conversions. Additives (stabilizers) can also be added to enhance the mixing properties between mineral & 134a if you’re unable to totally evacuate the mineral. You need to try to completely evacuate the system and drain the pump if you convert from one to the other. Also change O-ring material per refrigerant. Black = mineral, blue or green = PAG.
The procedure for the POA adjustment is to loosen the lock nut and give it a 1/4 turn CCW. The 134a requires a lower pressure on the evaporator to work efficiently. It can lower the differential as much as 10* on a 90* day! This is where a lot of the misconception comes from that 134a doesn’t work as well as R12 in a system originally designed with R12. A higher efficiency condenser will alleviate the problem as well.
Always follow the manufactures recommendations. PAG comes in several weights.

 

It is A/C time now[/QUOTE]


This is the biggest dilemmas you will face rebuilding an old car, I know im a 5 time veteran. (4 hits one miss)
Spend the $1000 upfront or it will cost $ 2000 by stealth later!
The guys at Classic Auto air really came through with original bits. The modified stuff I had made by the local Aircond guy using the original lines and adapting it for R134A.

 

OK.... so the consensus is......... send the original stuff for rebuild? That is why I check with the "been there - done that" experts here. I see "Vintage Air" mentioned, does anyone know of other companies that do complete rebuilds?

 

I checked with Classic Auto Air in Tampa Fl. They wanted 339.99 to rebuild my original '71 compressor or 279.99 for an in stock unit. A new PRO6ten compressor is 345.00 from Old Air Products. It is a direct bolt in replacement for the A6 compressor. Several options to consider. Good Luck !

 

I converted my 72 cutlass to R134a and it cools the car fine. Only problem is I have no ducts to go to the vents......Does anyone know where I can get them??

 

If he is replacing EVERYTHING you'd better jump on it with both feet. I had mine resorted a year and a half ago and it was $900 and they removed the R134 someone had installed changed and cleaned out all the oil in everything, replace a bunch of Orings, replace the receiver drier, and fill it back up with R12. It works great now but man it's pricey.

 

It is not OEM, but I got duct work from NAPA and it works very well.

 

They wanted 550 to rebuild my compressor - what's up with that?!

 

The plastic formed ducts will need to be sourced used. I dont think they are being reproduced? 442.com has several individuals who have barns full of used stuff in the classified section. Check the same section here. Evil bay, craigslist etc...do some surfing. The general purpose round hose can be found at the better parts houses (read; not the big box house of china retailers). The restoration vendors also offer the general purpose round duct.

 

Thanks!!

 

Unless your car needs to be a 100 pt restoration, I'd go with newer parts that will work fine. I called Classic Auto Air for A/C parts for my 64 F85. Here's what I did:
Pulled my old evap core out and had it checked for leaks by a local reputable shop. Had it flushed, too. It was good which saved some $$. A/C shop didn't even charge me because he knows I'll be back to get the system charged. Get a new A/C box seal kit from OPGI or use seam sealer (the seal kit is not that great). Replace the heater core while you are in there. Got one from Autozone (best price I found). From Classic Auto Air, I bought the new, smaller R134 compressor AND BRACKET FOR A LATER MODEL OLDS. My car had no A/C brackets. The Classic Auto Air bracket bolted up fine to the 330 in my car. Bought a new condenser, receiver/dryer, expansion valve, STV rebuild kit, universal A/C hose kit with fittings, and low pressure switch. I also bought a new vacuum diaphram for the heater/ac box (the one that bolts to the heater box in the engine compartment.
All of that is essentially a new A/C and heater in a car no one makes a kit for. Total cost was about $1000 +/-. But working A/C is a big deal to me.

 

I am still in the middle of trying to get mine sorted out, drove the car to Springfield for the Nats and had issues with slipping clutch on compressor... Very unhappy... But was a great Nationals and luckily cool, didn't need the air.