There is a ‘70 W30 Convertible 4 Speed on EBay. Claiming to be the all original real deal. Triple gold with black stripes. Not sure I have ever seen a gold convertible top. Anyways it’s naturally claiming to be 1 of the 96 ever made. Car actually looks nice except for the stripes. The glaring omission to me is the lack of pictures from under the hood. Bidding is up to $58k and ends on 7/30. Any thoughts - has anyone seen or heard of this car before ?

 

What the heck is a "Rocket Report"


https://www.ebay.com/itm/22454138527...UAAOSwqvVg9u06

 

I thought I saw a picture of a Broadcast Card for the car up on the site earlier. Any theories as to why no under the hood pictures being posted ?

 

 

OK, I didn't know he had a name for his inspections. I thought they were trying to claim something from Oldsmobile.

 

Unfortunately, "IMO", the first step would be repainting this car. As with many, the stripes are an expensive correction.

 

Is this one that does not have W-30 on the build sheet? After the claim that early W-30 convertibles did not have it then all of the sudden it seams as if lots of "early" W-30 convertibles were discovered.

 

I have a question for the W30 or just 442 experts, the seats on this advertised car are a different pattern than the factory ones on my 70 gold on gold W30 car. Is that because its a supreme convertible versus the hardtop?
The seller states he has the broadcast card, why he wouldn’t post pics of that is odd..One would think Steve Minore would authenticate it as his report says car appears to be correct, however Minore it appears was not given the broadcast card to review? Beautiful car for sure,

 

Yes, all convertibles are the "Supreme" body style and will have that interior differing from the hardtop models.

 

aww, ok, thank you…

 

Ad claims the body panels are factory originals, which means the emblem holes were there when the stripes were laid out. Dude must have been in a hurry to miss it that much.

 

It states was repainted in 1973. Many production shops were not paying attention to exact stripe placement back then as very few do today. Dealer or restoration shop, different story. Looks like a kool W-machine and could very well be one of the 96. I like what I see, but for the stripes.

Just a note but the TM code W-30 specific rear has been found in 4 speed 442s. So while a it's a clue it is not definative for a few reasons.

 

Interesting car in this auction; it certainly has a certain mystic about it considering the wording Minore used in his summary.

 

If the history of the car is true as the seller is saying is there an advantage of auctioning the car off on EBay instead of an in person auction such as Mecum or Barrett Jackson ?

 

Just an hour south of me, may see if I can have a look.

 

eBay is a few hundered bucks for such a listing, while the "Big" auctions charge an entry fee, plus 10% of the hammer / selling price. You need to ship / transport it there. Hotels, food and lodging etc. Not saying one will fetch more than the other, but expenses are a consideration. There are plently of qualified buyers looking into this 442. Aside from the fact that it has no factory paperwork to establish its provenance, it also needs to be restored to be compared to done cars which have fetched top of the market.

If the buyer needs a carburator..... I have one for this car : )

 

the ad says the seller has a broadcast card, not sure why no pics of that or mention of it in the rocket report..some details are surely missing on the ad .

 

Based on the VIN this is an early 442 and the broadcast card will not show the W-30 or 4 speed option, but I would still like to see it. There is only a portion of the "RocKet Report" pictured.

 

I thought the broadcast card always showed w30? Thats what I have read on this site. My w30 broadcast card does.. Without the original dealers invoice how would you ever truly authenticate without a w30 stamped broadcast card? Not doubting you, trying to further my education.

 

_____________________Andy, some examples of W30 have surfaced with W30 missing from the broadcast card, as is likely the case in this example. Search this database here as there are multiple links where this is discussed. As far as authentication, there are those that can speculate or give their best opinion that the subject car is authentic, but for me there would always be that cloud of doubt hanging over such a car; that is why I wouldn’t own a W30 without proper documentation in this day and time.

Which would you rather have a W30 with documentation or a W30 without documentation? I think the answer is clear. Some folks have been amazed at what some undocumented W30s have sold for in the past, but just think how much more the same car would have sold for if it had been documented. Again, to me, it doesn’t make sense economically to buy one without documents, or the correct drive train for that matter.

Of course, this is only my personal opinion for the most part. Any interested buyer can do what the heck they want to; it's their money!

 

Thank you for the clarification..when it comes to the dollar amounts these cars go for I am with you..100% documented or I am out on a high dollar priced car. Now if you ran across one that dotted all the I’s and crossed all the T’s without the docs and the car was under priced, I may roll the dice.. I helped work on a 67 427 corvette a friend bought 6 months back, old dude told him it was an original big block car, but had a small block in it. He bought it right, paid 26,000 for it, we pulled the tank looking for build sheet , what a pain, however there was a remnant of the sheet on top of tank validating it a big block car..As well all the physical attributes..funny story after working on that tank removal for 4 hours and getting all excited about it verifying big block status.. I started going thru the glove box because he never did, damn pop card and original owner info in a bunch of old papers.. 400 hp 427 car..

 

Prices tend to get crazy stupid on certain makes models etc. Then... They crash hard. Look at the story of Mopars. Hopefully Oldsmobiles just level out. Unfortunately for all of us Oldsmobile fans. They can be faked so easily. Sure is not a coincidence that so few cars have paperwork. What really blows my mind is why it seems so difficult to do them correctly. How do you F up the stripes. How do you F up the emblems. Because really you don't care about the soul of the car. That and people that are willing to say screw it. I got cash to blow. So many non car people try and invest just to invest. It has been said many times here and on others. We are getting old. Yougins these days could care less for the most part.

I hope the right people end up with the right cars.

 

This car needs a repaint right out of the box. Just for starters I bet.

 

The real question should be "Which would you rather pay for a W30 with documentation or a W30 without documentation"?

 

Both are fun as long as it is priced accordingly.

 

_____________________Everyone has a different opinion about this and it’s impacted by their purse. As I insinuated, the clear answer for me is a W30 with documentation. In my opinion and the point I make is, if you want a W30 to suffer from anemic appreciation purchase one without docs, a mismatched engine and transmission, and its value will never match that of a pedigreed example.

 

Everyone has the right to spend their money as they wish. Would you rather have a W30 with a broadcast card that’s missing it’s original carb, distributor and alternator or have an undocumented W30 that has its date code correct carb, distributor and alternator ? Guess it’s whatever you feel comfortable with - who cares what other people say or think ? If the engine has never been opened - the real proof would be the car having its factory correct and original (with markings) W30 camshaft.

Getting back to the original question on this post - the seller has not responded to inquiries about posting under the hood pictures and has also not responded about whether or not the car has any of its original W parts. Has to make you wonder about the lack of transparency.

 

____________
Of course, there is a reason for this particular tactic. If it were me I'd provide photos out of the wazoo to increase the propencity for a high sales price. Other choose to be more dubious with the information they share for particular reasons.

If there ever was an investment grade Oldsmobile, this 1 of 96 example (?) would certainly qualify as one, tread wisely.

 

Wish air conditioning was available.....
Really pretty and unusual color convertible. Love the color combination. Good looking car!!! Love the steering wheel.
I hope the seller gets over 100k.

 

Geash stripes....

I told The painter who did my car...get it correct...will pay extra

 

Seems the stripes ( pick a year any year) are the hardest thing to get right. Notched valve covers on correctly are a close second.

 

That is obviously a very nice example of a 70-442 (W30?) 4 speed car. I find it really interesting that someone would order a car w/power windows and not choose the sport wheel. I guess that is why they called them options (I assume the W pkg did not include the sport wheel?). But, minus the stripe issues, I really dig the car. Olds 442's and 442 W30's have generally been making consistent $ gains over the past several yrs, so I hope the guy sells it for top dollar. I don't recall seeing this one come up for sell, so the current owner did well to purchase it privately if would seem without fanfare.

 

No 4 speed 1970 W-30s with a/c

 

Of course, as this one does not either. Was looking at a different car and got them mixed up, thx. Still a little different to not see a sport wheel on a car with power windows to a degree.

 

I'm one. I started driving at age sixteen with a slightly used '65 factory air, tri-power, 4 speed convertible GTO. I hated that car and I couldn't wait to sell the car.
​​​​I went into Faulkner Oldsmobile in Philadelphia when I was eighteen (18) years old to buy my first new car. I ordered a 1970 442, factory air, W-30 convertible with automatic transmission, bucket seats etc The car was not ordered with a sport steering wheel, Super Stock wheels, Rallye Gauges or a dual gate shifter. I knew I was putting Cragar SS wheels as soon as I took delivery, so why bother spending money on factory wheels. I didn't want air conditioning either. I knew I wanted to race the car and when my father asked why I didn't want air conditioning I came up with every story except the truth... convertible, you could put the top down and open the vents when I was asked what I would do when it rains; and the cost (approximately $475.00). Finally, my father had enough of my bs and told the salesman that he would pay for the ac.
I didn't want a W-30 either. My father felt that it was a good value (approximately $300.00) and you would get the hood, emblems, stripes and a slightly larger engine.
When the car was delivered, the first thing I did was put on Cragar's and a burglar alarm. I removed the rear seat for wires, found a printed card without prices, which I discarded and now today learned was the broadcast card. In 1970 few of us cared about documents, except the Protect-O-Plate, which we all needed for warranty work.
Today, fifty-one (51) years later, I would be accused by certain people on this site as a fraud because I lack documentation, a sport steering wheel, gauges and a dual gate shifter.

 

Cool story, thx for sharing

 

x2

Pictures? Colors?

 

Hi Stefano,.
I agree. Air conditioning was not available in '70 W-30 4 speed cars.
This car is beautiful. As you may know, I am required to have air conditioning.

 

I don't think anyone is saying it is a fraud, Just can't pay top dollar for it compared to a similar car with iron clad docs. I do know that most of us never knew the early w-30 convertibles did not have W-30 on the card. Now that people hear about this we have seen several early W-30 convertibles come to market. It puts a question in peoples minds on all of them real or not without docs.

 

You can tell by Steve's language in the RR that it's an opinion piece which is smart on his part. There isn't a "silver bullet" in terms of saying that without a doubt the car is a factory W-30 ragtop. It's well documented that there are 1970 W-30 ragtops assembled in Oct/Nov/Dec of 1969 that didn't have 'W-30' printed on the broadcast card.