oldsguybry

more fun ..... I beleive the ignition switch is going bad , when I turn the key the steering wheel seems to unlock normal , but there is a very noticeable hesitation and " click " noise in the igniton before the ignition is turned far enough to start the car ... and like before the hot indicator dummy light on the dash lights up and then keeps flashing on and off , even with the engine cold ... i would not think the two are related .The light is working properly now , but the ignition still feels messed up.... I'm afraid the alternator is on the way out to ( a diode perhaps? ) it still starts the car fine , but I get the gen light to flash on and off everytime I shut heat off or every once in a while when I take my foot off of the brake.... I beleive the alt is about 10yrs old.

don71

On these old cars you can expect to change out the key ignition switch, so its not uncommon as is the altenator.

If this is your daily driver, you need to consider doing this soon as not to leave you stranded.

It a $12-$14 part. If you've never done it, you're gonna need a little help. It only takes an hour or much less if you've done it before. The job will require two special tools that you can probably rent at the auto parts store where you get the switch.

The tools are:
Steering wheel puller
Lock plate removal tool

Its also very handy and allmost required to have the Factory Service Manual to know how to do this Good luck.

About the Altenator, just remove yours and exchange it for a new one and be done with it. It might cost 50 bucks or so, you don't need no fancy 100 amp unit.

MDchanic

As far as I know, the non-tilt internal column parts are all the same for pretty much all GMs through the late '70s / early '80s.
If you've got a bad gear or other components, it should be easy to find them.

I'll trade you for a 12 year old car that's falling apart!

- Eric

droptopron

Do you mean the key in the column of the actual ignition switch (electric) lower on the column? The one on the column is an easy job tou do yourself and should be readily available at any parts store. Only difference being if you have tilt, I believe.

gearheads78

Don't feel bad. I make my living off of 3-4 year old cars falling apart.

Lady72nRob71

Remember, the older the car is that is falling apart, the cheaper and easier it is to put it back together again!

oldsguybry

oh yes please , I really wanted those great cars that were being made 12yrs ago

oldsguybry

thanks , I got the steering wheel puller already , I just need the other tool ... other then that it would seem to be an easy repair , remove a retaining ring and possibly a wire and I cant think of anything else that would be in the way or would require any extra help .... unless you know something I dont lol.

oldsguybry

its cheap until you get to those darned " might as wells "

Lady72nRob71

Uh, yes......
Let me interest you in one of my anti-MAW helmets for only 19.99...

Allan R

Bryon, do you have the CSM for 72? That will help you change out the keylock.

Alternator? Easy - take it out and get it load tested - Autozone, O'reilly's, etc. They do it for free. If it comes back shot, you have your choice to rebuild it yourself or you can buy a new one.

O'reilly sells rebuilt for 45 + 15 core
Rock Auto is a great deal: AC Delco - 63 amp 53.00 including 5.99 core charge

Here's a link to help you with your steering column diagnosis: http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/membe...Section_9C.pdf

Lady72nRob71

If just the brushes or diodes of the alt are bad, get a repair kit and change out the bad parts for 10 bucks. Keep your original alt, too!

oldsguybry

thanks for the link ... this looks familiar , I think I did this repair on a 78 Regal I use to own , I remember renting that tool after you get the steering wheel off , but cant remember if it was the turn signal switch or the ignition ... it did not matter much anyways because the tilt steering gave out after awhile and I ended up putting in a chevy steering column in place of the faulty Buick one to which all of the play in the steering column was used up in order to make it reach the gear box. I had to carve some of the plastic off of the back of the steering wheel so it would turn .... all I have is a Chiltons manual for the car , ill have to look in there to see what I all have to take off in order to replace ignition.

oldsguybry

how hard of a repair is it to do , if that is the problem ? ive taken electric motors apart before and dealt with the brushes and what not so maybe this would be the way to go.

Kajun442

Before you remove the lock cylinder from the column, make sure it's what causing the problem. It sounds like the ignition switch (electrical switch on top of column) may be causing the binding. Un-bolt it from column and work the key and see if it is still binding. Most of the time the electric switch is the problem.

Jim

Lady72nRob71

Since you can do motors, an alt is not too much more involved. You can do it!
If you have the factory service manual, the instructions are in there.
Here is where I repair the alt on my '86 Cutlass. It is a newer type, but the concept and many of the parts are the same. The new one has the internal regulator (which I had to replace in mine).
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...lternator.html

I replaced the brushes in the alt of my Ford with no trouble. Took an hour, just taking my time. Worked fine after. I can still say it has the original alt, too!

MDchanic

Bryan -

The alternator is easy to take apart and repair, and you can change the brushes, regulator, diodes, and bearings for much less than paying for a rebuilt unit.

If you want to take your column apart, you don't need that compressor tool - you can sit in the driver's seat and press the plate down with a few fingers while picking out the clip with a pair of small screwdrivers - it's a bit tricky to put it back together, but you can do it if you're patient. I've never used one of those tools. If you really want one, they're about $14 at the parts store.

- Eric

oldsguybry

ill have to check that once im in there , thanks ... I really have to get this car on the back burner again , and find myself another DD so I can slowly work on this one .

oldsguybry

yea , we had this cheap vacuum cleaner that the bearing on the motor kept going bad , so for $6 I would take the motor apart to replace the bearing and it would work for another year or so then go bad again .... so the brushes should be a fairly easy fix at that point .

oldsguybry

so after the retaining ring is there anything else to take off ? or does it slip out after that.

oldsguybry

ok .... now everything seems back to normal , but now I have a screaching sound coming from the front of the motor mainly when the motor is cold and not under load..... im thinking waterpump bearing or the alternator bearing is going !!!!

Allan R

Bryon, (this sounds so like a line from "Hunt for Red October") you've gone and broke your car -again?

Well a few things come to mind.
1. If your water pump wasn't screeching before, replacing your alt won't make it fail either.
2. I'm leaning more toward your belts need tightening. When you loosened off the belts to get your alt off/on you might not have done them back up enough? I would check that first before jumping into a water pump.....
3. When you rebuilt the alt did you change the bushings? Or did you get some crud in there?

Highwayman

Did you know that you can take a long screwdriver and roll your hand around the handle end, making a cup with your hand. Hold your cupped hand to your ear and use the screwdriver blade to probe like a stethoscope and listen for noise. It could help isolate the noise to the pump or alternator.


Or you could break down and spring a few bucks for a store-bought one. There work pretty good.

droptopron

if its a virgin column there may be a thin piece of aluminum you'll have to "punch out" to depress the retaining pin in.

oldsguybry

oh crap , that sounds like its gonna be one of those bad language moments when I get to that repair

oldsguybry

I never rebuilt the alt , just put a replacement in about 10yrs ago ... ill check the belts and ill also try the screwdriver thing , I have some big a$$ screwdrivers laying around that are over a foot long , maybe that will work good.... what I really need to do is buy another car and get this one back on the back burner.

Allan R

Bryon,
Don't sweat bullets. You're a really level headed guy who's given me some good advice over the past year too. I'd start with the belts.

Even if it's the alt or water pump those aren't really big ticket items to replace. Just takes the better part of the morning to git 'r done. I'm totally confident you will find the answer. As you know, don't take everything apart all at once. Use the process of isolating one thing at a time. BTW, cool tip on the screwdriver Highwayman! Might help to stuff some cotton in the other ear so you get more direct sound through the driver?

oldsguybry

I started car at lunch time here at work , and the screaching sound has a little grind to it too making me think its a bearing again instead of a belt... its not ruled out though.

MDchanic

Remember, alternator bearings can be changed without replacing the alternator.

With water pumps, you've got to change the whole thing, but they're cheap.

- Eric

Allan R

Bryon, if you have to change the water pump, you're more than half way to replacing the timing chain! Timing chains are cheap too! (less than 20.00 from R.A or O'reillys) Can't you just feel the love???

Water pumps? Around 30 - 40 bucks at OR, 25-30 at R.A.

Now that you're at this stage, you might as well pull the engine and do everything.... Aren't fiends like us nice to have around?? (Yeah, it's spelled right)

oldsguybry

lol I did not realize timing chains were that cheap.... man , them taxes better get here soon

MDchanic

Yeah, but....

I have read (can't recall whether a thread here or Bill Trovato's book) that the really cheap ones can be something like 7° off .
I don't have enough experience to be able to verify this myself, but the advice is to use a "better" set at a higher price, and degree it to be sure it's good.
I suppose you could use a cheap one and degree that, but you may be running back and forth to the store returning bad units for a while.

- Eric

oldsguybry

If I end up replacing the water pump I will have to stop there unfortunately , even though I'm getting more tax money , it was because I made almost 10 grand less then I made 2 years ago and all my money will have to go for bills and family vacation this summer. I HAVE to get some rust areas coated , so I have to get me some POR-15 , and I have to deal with the engine knock/click ... I was going to start with that Marvel Mystery oil , and maybe something for the fuel system too. The tires on this car are completely toast , but there is no way I will have the money for new tires ( hard to find that size tire used anywhere ) The steering is VERY loose , needs a rebuilt gear box I'm assuming .....etc....etc. The list goes on and on

Allan R

Ok, I'm not arguing. Here's the thing. I just checked RA, O'Reillys and Autozone. The 'most expensive' chain any of them sell is 26.00 (AZ). Even jegs is only around 27.00 for just the chain. What is the criteria to determine 'a cheap one?". I need to know this because I also am looking at an engine rebuild. Prolly will be part of the kit, but how do you tell if the chain is 'substandard'? They all have 48 links. What brand is better? Also, if you replace the chain, is it recommeded to change the timing gears too? I thought the gears were reusable unless they have damage to the teeth.

Highwayman

Allan, as long as you have the chain off, you're more than half way to replacing the gears! Those gears can't cost that much. Might as well while you're there......

MDchanic

Yeah - you don't just replace the chain - you replace the gears, too.

All together, it's probably about $60-100. I think there are sets of chain and gears for about $20 total. Don't buy those (or, if you do, be SURE to check them with a dial indicator!).

- Eric

Allan R

You and Rob Young must party together... I was going to do more than that. Plans were to do the whole engine. IIRC you can't get the chain off without taking the gears out.

That makes sense. Most of the gear/chain sets I looked at were around 70.00. To be honest, I'd be scared of a set of gears and timing chain that cost 20.00. You get what you pay for (mostly). Thx Eric

bigD

cloyes is probably the best commonly available timing set. i've had good luck with the comp cams too... edelbrock wouldnt scare me any...

oldsguybry

I figured I would just remove each belt and see where the noise is coming from .... Pic #1 .... I started with the alt , and that was not it , so now I was going to loosen the power steering adj up so I can remove that belt to see if its the water pump bearing .... Question # 1 Pic # 2 , Which bolt loosens the adjustment on the PS ? the one circle ? It looks like I may be able to sneak a adjustable wrench in there but it will be tight.

MDchanic

There are TWO - that's one of them.

Someone posted a nice picture here somewhere - I'll have to see if I can find it.

- Eric