Octania

rod on lower, extending to the viewer's left at ~3:05 in


Goes from diff to lower end of wheel spindle.

We are trying to replace the four rubber/ steel bushings in these two struts.

The rubber/inner steel sleeve assembly is WAY to big to press into the round steel strut end, and when you press on it the rubber bulges and makes it even less likely to insert.

We took out the inner steel sleeve from the rubber part, and then the rubber can be put into the outer sleeve aka strut end hole... but then the rubber part ID is like 1/4" smaller than the inner steel sleeve's OD, so no way is that going in either.

Tried looking on the internet for clues

have not had time to ck the service manual yet, sorry [shame]

maybe someone here has done this already?

It appears that assembling the rear wheel bearings and shafts into the carriers also requires a press and specialty tools... oy. They use a spacer and selectable shim between the two bearings, like a pinion shaft if the diff, but the spacer is not collapsible.

Maybe we got the wrong bushings

the struts are the top row of:

http://www.vtechcorvette.com/Suspension---Rear.html

droldsmorland

I suspect you have the wrong part. 63-79 has a 1.200 OD strut bushing. 80-82 has the 1.390 OD. Youre likely trying to stuff an 80-82 bushing in there. There is also (possibly) yet a third for the FE7 Gymkana suspension. Thats identified by the rear sway bar and 7 leaf spring, and of course the tank sticker if your lucky enough to have one. Do you have an AIM manual. Its listed there. I ran into this with Dads 68 small block. Then toss in the Big vs Small block rear ends in the early C3s....nother story.

Octania

Thanks!!

I am trying to get the guy to just have the rear bearings done at the Vette specialty shop here, Vette Customs

droldsmorland

Hell be sorry if he doesn't. Ecklers and Mid-Am have complete assemblies mailed to you with a prepaid exchange box. USA parts too. At least they were as of end of last year. Tell him to grease them at each oil change. Tell him while your there MAW install some high- qual Spicer ujoints too. That s the other weak link.

Octania

Dammit
rear wheel bearings done at local shop, seem right.

Yesterday we were working on getting those lower struts in and the trailing arm connected to the rear spring.... other guy says he got the right bushings. I see polyurethane. I says did ye grease them with silicone grease 'cause the will squeak otherwise. PS the outer end is held in by the shock mount L shaped double ended stud which is a flat and SPLINED shaft that has to be more or less permanently assembled because to hammer it out destroys the end of the shaft.

So I look at the free strut, and pull the bushing apart to find that there is like 1/4" diameter difference between the bushing and the strut end- the bushing is wandering around inside the strut end hole... I says, Joe, we cannot assemble this, it holds the rear wheel upright, it's pretty important. It cannot be sloppy by 1/8"+ on each end. "Ah, it'll be fine, don't worry" says Joe.

:-(

I say nay, it needs to be a good tight match
can anyone offer input on this?
maybe poly bushings need that much slop?

We were SUPPOSED to be doing all easy peasy stock parts so this goes smoothly.

I have not counted spring leaves yet.
got distracted with trans repair on the family driver.

droldsmorland

Sorry busy and off line for a few. I just posted a thread for you on NCRS.org. My friend is a C3 IRS expert. Lets see what he has to say. I still suspect you have some mismatch. Unless that poly will compress when you tighten it up. The OEMs dont look like this. They press in and ya they can be a pain to insert into the control arm but they go in and clamp down tight. I seem to remember that the OEMs were vulcanized in. The replacements had an outer sleeve/shell. You need the ones with the outer sleeve I believe. See below...
Did you try calling Ecklers or Mid Am tech lines? Thats all these guys do. Where did the bushings come from? Have calipers and the parts in front of you when/if you call.

One response so far....
"The original bushings were vulcanized in place and used no metal outer shell. If your strut rods currently have bushings with an outer metal shell, then these have been previously replaced.

You need to remove any remnants of the bushing as well as any metal sleeve. Then, the new bushings with metal sleeve can be pressed in. If you have the type of replacement bushings without an outer metal sleeve, I do not recommend that you use them. Use only the type with a metal outer sleeve."

Some of the replacement bushings with the outer metal sleeve are reported to be "off-spec" and fit too loosely in the strut rod ends. The bushings with the sleeves should be an interference fit in the orifices. If yours are not, return them and obtain proper fitting bushings.

One response so far...."You can still get the outer shell replacement bushings from GM under GM #3775762 but they're kind of expensive at about 27 bucks, GM list, per each. Most of the Corvette vendors like Dr. Rebuild, Corvette Central, Paragon, etc. carry these bushings and I believe they all, including GM, come from the same manufacturing sources, Clevite or Harris."

This thread is for a 65 so Im not sure that pn is correct for a 78?

droldsmorland

Two more:

"The bushing OD was increased from 1.2" to 1.39" beginning sometime around 1975".

"Mark is correct.

Equally important to understand is that poly is the worst possible choice for bushing material in any spot where deflection in multiple axis is required. The old marketing claim that poly 'lasts longer' is also proving to be untrue in many cases."

Octania

That is what I was thinking. It needs to be a tight fit and yet be flexible because of the motion this link must endure. I think GM parts from the dealer would be best. There are only 4 of them.

steverw

I bought adjustable struts for my Vette, cost about $125.00. Bought them through Ecklers Corvette. They have poly bushings, easy to install. So far so good.

droldsmorland

Stevew what year of vette do you have? Heres ours along side our other 68 and the 5 is our friends.

steverw

I have a 65 Coupe, ill post a picture later when i get home. Your cars are gorgeous! I love any GM muscle.

garys 68&72

Yep, 2 different diameters based on year.
Also DEFINITELY get the GM or even Mexico rubber bushings. Below is a pic of the Chinese kits some vendors sell. After only a few thousand miles on my 68, the upper control arm bushings all disintegrated. Yes, they were installed correctly and others saw the same thing with their suspension kits.

steverw

I used MOOG bushings on my Olds, and the front suspension on my Vette. I put offset trailing arms on my Vette, they came with polyurethane bushings.

oldcutlass

X2 on what steve said, I've used Moog for over 40 years with no issues.

droldsmorland

Steve thanks. We work hard for our toys. Want to add a late C2 to the crowd soon. Did you use the VanSteel offset arms?

steverw

Im not sure what brand they are, I got them and alot of other parts from Bairs Corvettes. They were great to deal with, extremely friendly! I redid my whole rearend. I changed it from a 3.73 to a 3.08 and I love it. I can actually go a long way on a tank of gas now...LOL. Before i could almost watch the needle dropping. However it was one heck of a job pulling that rear gear housing out! I would pull the Olds rear 10 times before i want to pull the Vette rear again...PITA! I did new trailing arms, adjustable struts, spring liners, half shafts, wheel bearings, shocks, and I got the 3.08 from Jim Monaz here on CO. He was also great to deal with. Got all the stuff to do my Olds rear from him too.

Octania

well the car now has slop fit polyurethane bushings. My associate ran them by the local mechanic and he said it was OK. Not sure I believe any of that. Rear end more or less buttoned up.

This weekend we attacked the front, put springs in. Used the cherry picker to lift the LCA up. Chain frame down to leg of picker. Worked great except when doing 2nd one I noticed gap between rubber boot and upper BJ seat at spindle. WTH the rubber boot got put in ATOP the UCA, between UCA and upper BJ. Sigh.

Maintain spring squeeze, undo UBJ, lift UCA, remove BJ bolts, reinstall BJ directly to the top side of the UCA, put boot underside, reassemble. Then redo the first one too.

Oh and the front hubs- I found them installed but not rotating smoothly. Cotter pin did not want to go thru its hole. Excess drag. Inspection finds inner seal - a flat rubber lip rather than the angled lip I am used to seeing- pinched between the inner bearing race and spindle- where it should not be- with seal OD also not tight in hub. Examination of the seals showed a cone shape, whereas they started life as a flat disk apparently. Something very wrong.

Finally, When my associate mentioned the "outer seal"... I noticed a seal on the OUTSIDE edge of the hub. WTH? The inner seal had been tapped into place on the outside of the outer edge of the hub. Grrrrrrr.... and it fits the inboard hub hole and fat spindle end perfectly. So, front hubs, bearings, and seals are now in place and set properly and spin like they should.

Rear Parking brake. What a nightmare. All new cables, springs, shoes, every last bit. Evidently SUPPOSED to be assembled BEFORE the bearing and hub get pressed together permanently. We CAN NOT get these L shaped forcing strut levers into place

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/3312121...lpid=82&chn=ps

"Actuating Levers" according to
https://www.google.com/search?q=1978...%3B1500%3B1300


Looked at videos, pictures, assembly manual, etc. Folks say the pin joint L shaped Actuating Lever slides in place thru the backing plate. HELL no. The backing plate opening is not even large enough to pass the replica L piece pin/rivet. Even if dismantled. Originals also will not go in. Tried loosening the wheel hub and brake anchor fasteners to move things out but the hub is still right there and the L's will NOT turn the corner and go in. I am ready to cut a new slot in the backing plate to allow insertion of the L piece. We are not inclined to remove the half shafts and rear bearing assemblies and take them apart again. Without a press.

Any tips on getting these "L" pieces in place appreciated.


Also the anchor for the park brakes [at the top in the above link to a diagram] looks like a oh 1/2" bolt thru a beasty tapered thing with two flats, which has to be oriented properly. However, it cannot be removed with the hub in place and the assembler did not buy new or derust these, so the bolt and tapered shoulder thing with flats are one and turn as one and so we cannot choose the final orientation of the shouldered part. Will the rotor fit over with this shoulder part oriented wrong, are are we taking wheel bearings out again anyhow?

Or, 4" cutter and remove the offending part?

Internet image of the Actuating links and anchor

droldsmorland

I can tell you every single parking brake kit I buy I have to "fit". Many times the new backing plates have the narrow slots and the levers don't fit. Get out the dremel, die grinder and files etc...The other things to check are the hooks on the springs, some are too long. The star wheels I have had to "face" in the lathe because sometimes they're too long and the shoe hit the rotor hats. The hold down pins are stamped and not clean. They have to be filed into an arrow head.

The anchor block should be OK but you won't get a new lock on it with the spindle in place. It is a 1/2-20 thread.

Don't think you will be able to remove the spindle and repack the bearings to reuse. If you remove the spindle expect to setup new bearings. JOY!

Let me know if you need more help.
Steve

steverw nice mid-year! 5 right? I think I see roof vents?

Octania

Test fitted rotors to make sure the clear the anchors and stuff before putting shoes in. Seems OK.

I then slitted the backing plates, allowing the actuating links in. After that was some swearing and exclamations of "no way" and whatnot. brought shoes- adjuster- lower spring asm. up from bottom to near final location.

Laughed and laughed about the front shoe retainer nail being behind the spindle. Looked at video again. OK.... It can be done... Just pull the shoe aside [fwd] enough to get the parts in there... Retainer spring and its cup will not stay "married" like real GM parts do, they keep falling apart. Got nail taped in place on fwd hole of LR brake, got nail thru shoe, a few minutes of struggle later, the spring and cup are in place. Yay!

Rear nail.... Well, the shoe has a hole, and the backing plate has a hole, but behind that is a solid steel caliper mount bracket, so the rear shoes are just not getting any retainer springs. Not even remotely possible w/o taking wheel bearings apart again.

Evidently you are supposed to have the park brake all in place on the backing plate when the bearing and hub final install takes place.

"A" shoe retainer is in place, adjuster, lower spring, now we "just" need to get the shoe upper spring in. 5m one side, 30m other side. Poor lighting, one hand to work with, and the usual stubborn parts.... but we prevailed. Only a litlle blood loss from sharp edged backing plate.

Made sure to mark rotors and a stud for proper orientation, allowing park brake adjust access.

The aft shoes, having no retainer spring/ cup/ nail, look like they want to locate outboard and try to hit the rotor/ sheel studs, but no bad noises yet during test turns.

Pads into calipers, calipers went right on no problems

Next up- more rear brake lines, pull bleeders and coat with anti-seize....

Oh and redo the front springs one more time- the TOP of the spring was not babysitted into the exact right position and so of course it is not. It blocks the shock hole instead. I thought that part went a little too easy.

droldsmorland

Ha yes been there...It looks good. Frame looks clean. I've learned to buy the dam arms fully assembled. When you get the the point I am in life your time is simply worth more and the frustration level is way too high wrestling with the stupid sheet. But I guess if I hand not done it the hard way I wouldn't have anything to compare it too...trying to work smarter.

Octania

Right, I would have recommended these assemblies be bought done as an assembly had I known. This is my first real corvette work. I'd rather stick to Cutlass/ Olds A-body I think. I cannot believe that the actuating link cannot be inserted if the backing plate is in place already. That slit made insertion possible.

Octania

Interesting experience yesterday with the 1978 Corvette steering.

Adjust new tie rods to same length as old ones, with tape measure, as a basis to start from. Apply grease to threads to allow easy future adjust/ removal. Going over ball joints and such, torqueing and inserting cotters... get to tie rods... Aftermarket sh....tuff. Hmmm. read Asm. Manual to learn proper clamp orientation. Not all that useful since the original sleeves for adjusting had ONE slit and these have TWO, so you cannot orient the clamps such that NO slit is in the open part of the clamp.

Tighten the clamp. sleeve still spins by hand. Tighten more. Clamp begins to distort. Still spins by hand. Tignten more, nut strips the allegedly "8.8 grade" bolt. Bullsnort- if that steel is 8.8 then this car is a spaceship. Remove the POS bolt, extract original bolts from the old tie rods. Real GM parts, actual 10.9 grade.

PS the originals had prevailing torque self locking nuts, the Chinesium nuts- free running. A bit of a safety issue there.

droldsmorland

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...practices.html

You may or may not enjoy this rant I just posted. I may even get banned? I see red for you! Enough of this chineasium JUNK. Not ever on my cars/trucks. Especially critical items...tires...tie rods...A arms etc...I always call and ask country of origin. If I get the "multi sourced" answer that means china... see ya. My friend just put a tubular set-up up front on a 67 Chevelle....all china! I told him hes insane. His answer "but they were cheap"...cant fix stupid. You got to ferret out the USA stuff. The vendors will point you in that direction first verses saying you have two choices the ecno and USA. Generally the USA isn't a ton more, especially considering your time spent correcting the junk if you live.

Octania

UPDATE!
Jim, the owner of the car, was able to see the engine run! A couple minor water leaks before he got there, but it's very near drivable.


Jim has cancer of the lungs so we were trying to get this done while he can enjoy it.


Always good when a startup goes right. Dist'r not 180 out or whatnot. We filled carb thru air vent, and she fired right up.....

oldcutlass

Cool, sounds like your almost there. Post some pics.

Octania

I can only do phone pics at this time
home computer died again, setting up a new one takes WEEKS because I get like an hour at a time.