mmurphy77

My friend's stock '69 H/O has begun having hot start issues that seem to be pretty common from what I have read on here. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the fact that the starter is 3/4" from the manifold and down pipe. It doesn't have the correct 1108333 starter in it right now (has a reman) but since the problem is only on hot days after long drives and starts normally once given 20-30 minutes to cool we thought some type of heat shield may help. Will a heat shield help and, if so, a whole shield or just a solenoid shield? If the correct 1108333 starter will solve it then fine. He just doesn't want to spend big $$$ (if he can even find one) unless he has to.

MDchanic

Your symptom is the reason why they put a different starter in the high compression 455s than in all the other engines.

A starter that is just barely able to turn over fast enough under good conditions will have trouble turning at all when it's hot.

I would recommend getting the right starter for the car first, and then talking about modifications and additions second.

- Eric

Bluevista

I used to have the same problem with my '68 GTO, very embarassing at drive thru judging shows when it won't start after you shut it off to be judged. I put a solenoid heat shield on it at least 15 years ago and have had no problems since.

citcapp

This is the correct answer along with a good solid ground. You can buy the correct starter. I found mine at the local NAPA. Its listed as "Heavy duty" with them. I am running a high compression 455 and have never had a problem with the so called hot start

ziff396

It's called a high torque starter for the big blocks and high compression small blocks. The way to tell the difference is behind the selonoid (sp) there will be a extension about 3/4-1" long on the high torque one and not on the lower torque one. Most younger parts counter guys don't know the difference. Been there .

MDchanic

True up to a point.

Olds made THREE starters for the V8s in the '60s (I believe it was down to 2 by 1971 or '72), with a fourth later in the seventies for the likes of the 260 and 307.

• One for the low-compression, low-displacement V8s, such as the above 260 an 307.
  This one has a case that is noticeably shorter than the case of the other models.
• One for the low-compression, "normal" V8s, the 330 and 350.
  This one has a case that is the same length, but its "power tab" (+ terminal) comes out closer to the nose, connecting directly to the solenoid without a spacer.
• One for the high compression 350, the 400, and the low compression 455.
  This one has a roughly half-inch spacer between the solenoid and the "power tab."
• One for the high-compression 425 and 455 only.
  This one is indistinguishable from the previous model mentioned, from the outside, but has different coil wiring inside, which you can identify if you look carefully.
  This one also has a single-layer "power tab," while some of the other types have a "power tab" that is made up of two or more leaves.

If you have a "high torque" starter for a high-compression 350, it is not the right starter for a high-compression 455.

- Eric

brown7373

Also, check both the positive and negative battery cables on both ends for good clean connection. Resistance increases dramatically with increased heat and increased resistance means slow cranking.

oldcutlass

I remember us having this conversation a while back and had seen this list:

http://www.oldsmobility.com/mpc/grou...tarter_idx.htm

MDchanic

Not to be obtuse, but I have no idea what I was supposed to get from that link.

Here are illustrations from the 1968 CSM:




- Eric

oldcutlass

Production part numbers, Eric. He has the correct 1108333 starter in there. I would make sure all the wiring is good with tight and clean connections. I would also invest in a quality starter solenoid as your may be expanding internally when hot, lessening tolerances to not allow it to operate.

MDchanic

Yes, but...

If the starter he has is a rebuild (which may not be obvious), the case may have the correct GM number stamped in the outside, but the internals may be wrong.
The only way to tell is to take it apart and look at the windings.

The commercial rebuilders did not (do not) waste their time separating parts with one number or another stamped on them - if the parts will fit, they use them, and put their own part number on the outside of the box.

- Eric

oldcutlass

He used the word begun. I'm assuming it worked fine until recently. A good solenoid is inexpensive and once the starter is out, easy to change. I agree with you about rebuilders and parts.

MDchanic

True, but he also said it was the wrong starter.

You say Tomato, I say Tomahto.

We'll see what fixes it. Odds are there are different things that will do the same job.

- Eric

mmurphy77

It does NOT have the correct 1108333 starter in there now but even if it did it's a reman and, as Eric said, it may be the correctly stamped case but who knows what's inside. The link 'oldcutlass' provided shows 1108389 as the service part replacement. Napa does list a Delco HD replacement that is described as "high torque/high temperature" that may be the one that 'citcapp' was referring to. I'll give my friend all this info and we'll see what he wants to do. Thank you guys.

oldcutlass

Sorry, it was late last night and when I read it, I thought you said it did have the right starter. My bad.

mmurphy77

Well, my friend bought Napa's 'high torque/high temperature' starter listed for that model and we installed it yesterday. The ambient temperature was in the low nineties and we drove the car for over an hour and it started perfectly afterwards every time (even after a hot soak of 20-25 minutes). Looks like we're good to go. Thanks for everybody's help.

MDchanic

Great to hear! You're welcome.

- Eric

oldcutlass

Well done.

pogo69

sounds like the starter is on the way out....the 333 sometimes do not have the ground bracket hole on the housing...the 389 does

ziff396

Sounds like you are good to go. Yes, I forgot about the windings to match a high torque starter as I used to work in a rebuild shop in the late 70's. I guess I am dated.