Ok after starting up fine this morning, I drove it for about 20 minutes up to the exhaust shop. After talking to the guy for about 30 min, I went back out to start the car and the starter cranked slow and kind of irregular like the battery was weak but after a few seconds it sped up and started. So I drove it another 20 minutes home and was home for about an hour, went back out and it started right up. THEN I drove about 10 minutes to the store, was in the store for about 10 minutes, came out and tried to start it and it barely cranked, very slow and weak, like the battery was almost dead. I checked the battery and the terminals, especially the ground, was very hot to the touch. I jiggled some wires and after another few minutes of sitting, I cranked it a few times and eventually it started like normal. I read on some threads about starter heat soak, cause slow starters depending on how long it sits. Is that what it sounds like? Does the hot battery cables raise any flags? I am unsure if I have a starter heat shield, but I would say it is a good bet I don't because I have been missing so many other stupid little parts. It is currently raining/snowing but when it let's up I wil crawl under the car to see.

 

Whenever I've heard stories of starter heat soak the starter just clicks away until you get down and knock on the starter with a rubber mallet to get the solenoid to activate the starter.

 

Man if I didn't love this car so much I would have taken one of my shotguns and used it for target practice months ago. Well as long as that's all it is,it's not that big of a deal. I am just concerned that it is more of an electrical issue. If I have to carry a mallet around to smack the starter it's no big deal. Gives my car character

 

What would be some suggestions on diagnosing or fixing this issue? Besides confirming it's on there, and if not installing the heat shield, would replacing the starter with a newer, maybe heavier duty be in order? I know for a fact that the heat resistant tube that is supposed to shield the battery cable next to the engine is missing. I never thought much of it, but could that have something to do with it?

 

Hitting the starter may work for a while,but it will ruin the starter.I have seen many ground cables get hot normaly the cable is at fault the cable corrudes and causes resistance causing heat and slow cranking.The next time this happens,run a temperary cable and try it ,a booster cable makes a good temp cable if it starts ok then replace the cable.

 

It's funny you say that because I was just noticing this morning that my battey ground cable looks pretty rusty and corroded. I have been delaying replacing my cables but now I may have to. I will try that jumper test next time and see. I have also been reading that for one reason or another the timing being too high could cause this. It wasen't too clear why that would be, but I resently turned my timing up and this has been the first time this has evr happened. So I will check and make sure that the timing isn't too high. I am 90% sure that the starter is original, and it has not been driven this much for some time so it just may be time for a new starter. But I am going to do some tests before I purchase any.

 

If the starter is original and never been off the car then the heat shield would still be there.

 

This is a known problem, especially with the 455s and standard starters.
I had this same issue a couple times with my 350 when I was driving it home from SC.
It was 98* out, I had the AC on, 80mph, wrong 2 core radiator, and it was running over 200* the whole way. Little did I know then....

These starters are victims of heat soak. When they get too hot, they draw excessive current, which is causing heating of your cables.
455s should have a 4" wide brace that connects from the starter side to the block. Often these are omitted during starter replacement, as they are a pain to reinstall.
These braces are also heat shields as the exhaust runs so close to the starter. Make sure this is there.

Also consider a heavy duty starter. It uses (I think) four windings instead of just two. I plan to get one of thse built up from a starter rebuild shop.
I remember the Toro's soming withthe HDs but not for sure.

Do, of course, replace any cables that are corroded or breaking.

 

The starter seemed original last I glanced at it, but I wouldn't he surprised if it wasen't, or at least had the shield removed for one reason or another. That has been my whole experience with this car is trying to figure out what and why someone did half the crap that has been done to this poor car. It has been a long struggle undoing almost 40 years of sub par care, but has been fun for the most part. I will get under there tomorrow and take a look, and hopefully solve the issue. I will also be getting some new battery cables, one less thing to worry about.

 

You can get new battery cables at the auto parts store if you don't care about "originality." You also might consider a starter thermal sock. You can get them from places like Summit or Jegs.

 

Try replacing with a new high speed starter mine works just fine turns engine over like nothing. Tommy

 

Ok after checking out my engine, and running it, letting it sit, a few times I think I found the problem. I checked the timing and it was alittle off....it was about 52 degrees BTDC. Soooo yeah just a little off. I had turned it up a few days ago, just by ear, and I didn't realize I had turned it up that high. The idle speed was messed up before so I had to turn it up that high just to speed it up. But its wierd, with the exception of the hard hot starting, the car ran real well yesterday. Oh well. I got everything adjusted, and got the timing set right, and doesn't seem to have the hard starting anymore. But I will keep an eye on it.

 

I had that problem once, turned out to be the mounting bolts needed tightening. They are your ground to the block.

Good luck, Dave

 

Did you reset your timing with a timing light and your idle speed with a tachometer?

 

Yes everything is where it should be. I set the timing alittle higher then stock, about 9-10 btdc. As for the speed, I messed around with it alittle because I was still unhappy with how it was running after I got it back from my mechanic last week. I have been going to him forever but I think his place has become much too fast pace. Now it seems like they are just concerned about getting cars in and out as soon as possible. I say this because after checking the speed, I noticed that the slow idle screw was turned in very far to get it to idle at the speed it was supposed to, but the mixture itself seemed to be off. I also could smell a very noticable smell of gas from it just sitting in my driveway. So what I did was back the slow idle out all the way so it wasen't putting any throttle on the initial idle. When I did that it seemed to stumble and I actually had to screw in the idle mix screws to get it to even out, like it was getting way too much gas. So I evened it out with the screws THEN turned in the slow idle screw just a very little bit to get it to get up to speed and now it seems to but running much smoother. For one reason or another I think my mechanic just didn't take the time to really "adjust" the carb, and just set the mixture screws without first adjusting or checking anything else. I may just be actig paranoid, but it seems like that was the case. Anyway it is running very well now, doesn't smell overwelmingly like gas, and no more rough start up, but just like always, I will keep my ear/eyes on it.

 

That is good to hear.