Ok, so I bought this 1970 Cutlass Supreme earlier this year. I was looking at the engine bay and remember the conversation with the previous owner. He did 3 things change the timing gears (something is noisy in the front of the engine, either the OEM water pump or the timing gears, still have to investigate that) the radiator with a plastic/ aluminum version (also getting replaced), an aftermarket radio (also removed now) and even before him an external fuel gauge as the original failed with the last item being a GM Style HEI distributor.

The question is around the distributor, it is of unknown brand. Based on other work, I have my doubts it is of any quality and cheap ones have a tendency to fail down the road. That said, the coil mount is gone and I not even sure where it mounts. I still have to trace how the red lead was connected.
As I plan to build to as a daily driver (I work mostly remote) I am thinking of either replacing it with a small cap and an external coil, or the OEM style points. I am not afraid of points in my distributor, as a well sorted one will last for years before it needs any work and I have found them very reliable. But a conversion is also not out of the question.

Everyone has an opinion, what is yours on these thoughts. Ultimately it is my car, however input is 100% welcome and in this case needed.

 

Points to survive the EMP blast 🤘

 

I had aftermarket HEI ignition in my 71 98 and the module failed multiple times. I got tired of fighting cheap imported parts so I finally went back to points ignition.

I should probably buy 1 or 2 extra sets of points since they'll probably discontinue them before too long. 🤔

 

I put a GM HEI from a 77-79 403 on my engine back in around 1982 and it's been pain-free. Original GM module, Accel HEI Super Coil, NAPA Echlin cap and rotor, and aftermarket performance plug wires (Accel for 20-ish years, then Taylor Spiro Pro for the past 15 or so).

 

Points have a maintenance schedule of 10k miles. Since most people don’t daily drive these cars, 10k miles is a lot of leisure ice cream trips. On the other hand, HEI is reliable and for the most part maintenance free, unfortunately the ignition modules made today are crap. So if you want HEI, find a good factory distributor, and find a couple good used DELCO modules. Put one in the car, keep the other in the glove box.

 

Most humor rates L at best. That was LOL. You crack me up, Fleming.

But you're not wrong!

I'm still laughing as I type this.

 

Might want to look at some other direct plug & play electronic options first like the MSD p/n 8529, Pertronix Ignitor II (or III)

 

This is a no brainer. Progression Ignition small cap. Get a Pertronix Flame Thrower II from Summit. Get a new coil bracket from where ever, they are everywhere. You can even get a female cap and use the retro look wires.

These ignitions are so easy to tune via Bluetooth on your phone. Not to mention the gauges screen and the ignition lock.

I don't know why anyone still messes with springs, weights, advance limiters and guess work.

 

For me, it's because it's already there and has been working fine for 40 years, so no need to change anything or spend $600 for a new distributor.

 

Points, will always get you home...
Points, were good enough for GM to have installed them in their vehicles for 65 years straight...
Points are part of the formula for the golden era of US car manufacturing, 1949-1972.
Ai, by way of Hagerty, says it better than I ever could, so let me quote.
"Point-style distributors were the mechanical backbone of the automotive golden era."

"This venerable design was invented by Charles F. Kettering, first appeared on the 1910 Cadillac, and was used on most cars through the mid-1970s." Hagerty
https://www.hagerty.com/media/mainte...-vs-pertronix/

Personally, I believed in the HEI hype 30 years ago. 25 years ago, I bought a unit from the late 70s 403. 3 A-body's later it is yet to be installed. My 69 still has the point set that was in the car when I bought it in 2014. I'm closing in on 40,000 miles since I bought her. This is how she runs...

Lastly, the HEI distributor is a byproduct of the malaise era. Now, yes, it's the best part of the malaise era bar none. But it doesn't belong in our cars...

 

Why is it one of us always gets into EMP survivability when talking about HEI vs. points? There must be a few ex-military among us. Not including me.

I’m sitting ‘bout 25 miles from San Francisco and remember well a newspaper article in the 1970’s describing effects of a H Bomb (not A Bomb) blast over downtown SF.

Blew me away to learn glass in Sausalito, CA would melt and the first “safe” place would be Santa Rosa, CA - bout an hour north of me. I’m between the 2, so my fate would be somewhere unpleasantly between the 2…

To get back on topic, I’m using 2 Progression Ignition HEI’s and they’ve been great. But yes, the foreign parts for normal HEI’s are not too reliable and yes points will get you home. My solution in standard HEI days was keep spare modules in the trunk / glove box. I always thought HEI’s ran smoother than points, but that could have been my inexperience.

I still like my Bluetooth adjustable timing maps in my Progression Ignition HEI’s.

Well, at least until the H-Bomb blast goes off over the Transamerica Pyramid in SF. If I live, I’m sure I’ll be digging in my stash for a usable points distributor and points to get my anti-diluvian Oldsmobiles back on the road in the aftermath.

Sure hope it never happens
Chris

 

In my experience, factory HEI units are just as reliable as points. I truly believe that most people that had a module failure point to that as a reason to go to a points setup, or just plain can't let go of what they're used to. I don't run around with modules in the glovebox, or even an extra set of points where applicable. I always bought OLD SCHOOL Delco modules/points and was never disappointed in either one's performance. I have a little stockpile of each still so I'm good until death. NEVER GO CHEAP on your ignition system. Unfortunately, there are people I know buy expensive cars, then buy the cheapest repair parts, even oil and fluids, that they can find. Then wonder why they fail. Never understood that.

The key for stock HEIs is that you don't want to have Grand Canyon gaps on the spark plugs, and enough room to provide a bit of airflow around the coil (or set up an external coil). Super fat plug gaps >60 thou will kill an HEI module in short order. 35-45 thou works great with HEI, depending on your needs/compression ratios. Pound for pound, HEI sparks better than points in the same conditions. If you want an aftermarket HEI module that does well, check out Holley HEI modules where applicable. I'd stay away from the Chinesium ones.

I prefer to keep the ignition systems in my cars original, but if I were to do a change, I'd look to the Progression HEI. Even though it's a bit pricey. But that's just me.

 

Points are extremely reliable but need maintenance, folks often confuse the need, and the lack of maintenance for poor reliability.

That being said, HEIs are also extremely reliable. The modules fail once in awhile but it's no where near as bad as some make it seem. I think this is a classic case of internet parroting.

 

True, EMP won't kill points ignition, but it will kill the diodes in your alternator. Hope you have a backup source of power to keep the battery charged. Or a big glove compartment that can swallow a spare alternator.

 

I really don’t like installing unusual critical aftermarket parts on my vehicles. If you have a primitive points style ignition, chances are you can find ignition points somewhere. Same with HEI, more than likely a parts store nearby will have a module.

Now, if you’re 10 miles northeast of nowhere and your fancy aftermarket mail order distributor fails, you aren’t walking into a Napa for a replacement part.

 

Back in the early 80s I had a very well set up points distributor. Swapped it for an HEI, also with quality parts, with the timing curve modified to be the same as the points distributor. I saw zero difference in performance between the two setups - acceleration times were the same and mileage was the same.

 

Thank you all.
I am for sure going back to points. They are easy to deal with and very easy to troubleshoot.
I have to see if the PO cut or removed the resistance wire or not.

I see maintenance of these like plugs and oil changes.
check them, if needed a little filing, readjust (I have a vintage Sun tuneup kit for this) and away you go.
99% of the time the points are bad with that 1% the condenser. Or maybe it is the other way!?!.

either way carrying an extra set of points is easy and can be changed quickly.

 

I had a 72 Cutlas over 20 years and one of the first things I did after I bought it was put an HEI. I bought it out of a junkyard and did not do one thing to it before I installed it. I never had to touch it the whole time I owned the car. I have the original HEI in my 75 Hurst Olds and have not had to do anything to it. I do carry extra parts just in case. Just my experience.

 

To get back on topic, what I can report is that my ‘66 big blocks had smoother idle behaviors with HEI vs. points.

At the time of my HEI switch, I was aware of, but inexperienced with dwell & timing. HEI simplified my search for best timing. Looking back I might have come down on the points side, but HEI’s have worked well for me for something like 35 years or more. The end of my HEI road was Progression Ignitions HEI where I can (and do) dial in advance degree maps with my iPhone.

If you’re using standard HEI, I can confirm it’s a good idea to keep an extra HEI module in the trunk or glove box if you go that route. They latter day, cheaper modules fail completely without warning, so an onboard spare is cheap insurance against getting stuck far from home.

In the back of my mind I wonder whether I’d like points better, but I’m happy to leave timing very well enough alone.

For reference, I gap my HEI plugs to .045”. I’ve tried larger gaps. This seems to give me best power & smoothest idle. If I were to run points, I think I’d dial the gap back to .035”, but that’s pure speculation on my part.

Cheers
Chris