I am replacing my points on my 1969 442. I have a fusible link (resistor wire). Do I remove it and run the Pertronix at 12V?
Thanks,
Ken

 

Yes you do.

Heavy pink wire from the ignition switch, if you're splicing in, otherwise you can pull the resistor wire's spade terminal from the firewall plug and re-solder the connector to a new length of copper wire instead.

And it's a resistance wire, not a fusible link. Two different things.

- Eric

 

Or you can run a new wire from the fuse block that has power when the key is on, preferably off in accessory.

 

I think I am going to need a lesson on auto wiring. So in the main harness what is the 35ohm wire to the coil? That is not the fusible link? I need some help!
Thanks,
Ken

 

It is not a fusible link, it is the wire that runs from the firewall to the coil. It reduces the voltage to prevent the points from premature failure. The pertronix system requires a full 12v minimum to operate correctly.

 

That wire burned out 20 years ago and I removed the bad section that was 3" long. I was told it was the fusable link. I replaced the section with a fusible link. Now can I just cut off the link and connect my Pertronix?
Ken

 

Can you post a picture of your "fusible link"? You may have replaced the wire with a "ballast resistor". I assure you a fusible link will not drop the voltage to operate the points correctly.

 

At this point, none of what you have told us makes any sense.

Ballast resistor (also ignition resistor or coil resistor): A resistor located in series with an ignition coil to reduce the voltage through the coil and points.

Resistance wire: a length of silver, hard nichrome wire, with a cloth-like insulation, that is used as a ballast resistor.

Fusible link: a short (about an inch) length of wire that is smaller than the wire along the rest of the run, designed to melt first if the circuit overloads, saving the entire wiring harness from burning. Usually used on heavy circuits, where a similarly-rated fuse would cost the manufacturer extra money.

- Eric

 

I will take some photos tonight and post them. I will also scan the factory wire diagram.

The 35ohm wire. I know it is there to drop the voltage from 12v to 9.5 to prevent the points from burning. I also know on startup the points get 12v from the starter to give you a hotter spark and drops to 9.5 on run. Next question is where is the fusible link? Why is it never talked about in the repair manual.

Sorry for all the questions but I need to sort this out in my brain.
Thank you for your help!
Ken

 

Eric,
Sorry if I am not clear but I do not understand. I will take some photos and scan the wire diagram tonight.
I spoke to Pertronix and it is not clear in my head. They claim the coil has some resistance and if it is under 1.5ohms to leave the link in.
Thank you for the help and patience.
Ken

 

The fusible link is generally between the battery terminal and the main hot wire to the car, and is often covered by shrink tubing.

I am not certain which years and models had them, and which did not - I have seen them in lots of cars, but I honestly can't recall whether I've seen them in a 1960s Olds.

- Eric

 

Thanks Ken, we cannot grasp what you are talking about either, that's why I asked for a picture. You are correct as to why the resistor wire is there. To the best of my knowledge there was never a fusible link in there. That's why Eric and I are asking the extra questions. We both would like to see the installation of your Pertronix ign be as simple as possible.

 

To the best of my knowledge there were no fusible links used in 1969 and I've never seen one on a resistor wire to the coil. Find a wiring diagram for your car. If there are any fusible links they will be shown in the wiring diagram.

 

Yeah. There would definitely NOT be a fusible link associated with the resistor wire.

If they'd wanted to put a fuse on that circuit, they would have used a fuse, but they specifically did not fuse that circuit, presumably because the ignition coil is highly unlikely to cause a dead short situation (especially with a resistor wire feeding it), such that there is a greater chance of accidental fuse failure leading to potentially dangerous sudden loss of power than there is of damage to the car from a short.

- Eric

 

Both my Chevelle and Cutlass run fine with the standard resistor wire with the Pertonix Ignitor 1. I remember calling Pertonix directly to make sure it was OK and they said you could do 12 V but also the factory resistor wire is fine as long as it is >7.5 Volts and they designed them that way originally so you only needed to change out the points and not re-wire anything. The Ignitor 2 and 3 need 12 volts.

Anyway, that is what I was told back 10 years ago by them

 

Thanks for that comment, Oldsconv. I have installed numerous Pertronix units and never had a problem, but they were a number of years ago. I just removed the points and hooked up the module to the coil (after checking the gaps) and one car has been running fine for 15 or 20 years. But they were all the original Pertronix Ignitor. So the newer models require dorect 12 volts.

 

OK! Let me start again. My 69 442 we have had for 30 years. Shortly after I purchased the car I drove to a summer car show about 150 miles round trip. When I returned and the car cooled down I could not start the car. It would turn over but no spark. After speaking to an uncle (mechanic) he told me I have burned the fusible link. I was told to check the black wire (resister wire) and walk back with a continuity tester until I had power. Cut off the bad section and splice a fusible link into the harness. See photo. It has been there for 30 years no problem. The cause of the problem was the previous owner replaced the positive from the starter to the battery and it was touching the exhaust manifold and must have burned through and shorted on the trip back.

OK! Fast forward to today. I would like to replace the points with a Pertronix 1181LS Ignitor lobe sensor unit. Their instructions are not clear! The first thing I know now is that my car should not have a fusible link on it. When I install the Ignitor can I use the resister wire or do I need to add a 12v wire? I am not sure I want to add another wire! The car is a 71k original car and I do not want to cut up the harness!

After calling Pertronix I was told to measure the resistance across the coil and if it was more than 1.5 Ohms I should run a 12v wire. My coil is 1.8 Ohms

I just want to replace my points but I want the 442 to run correctly! If someone sells some thing better let me know. I want to thank everyone for his or her input and I appreciate all the help.
Thank you,
Ken

 

This is why I tell people not to go to mechanics.
If the fusible link were burned, you wouldn't have been able to crank the starter.

Sounds like you had a burned resistor wire, not a burned fusible link.
This technique will work, so long as you don't cut off too much.
Every inch of the resistance wire you cut off means less resistance. At a certain point, you will risk burning the points or overheating the coil.
Also, the nichrome resistance wire is difficult to connect to in a permanent way.

This doesn't make that much sense, as the ignition wires shouldn't go right past the manifold.
The starter wires do, but not the ignition wires.
That is, unless some prior owner messed them up...

I dunno... Which part seems unclear?

1. Turn the ignition switch off or disconnect the battery.
2. Remove the distributor cap and rotor. Do not disconnect the spark plug wires.
3. Examine the cap and rotor for wear or damage. Replace as needed.
4. Remove the points, condenser, and grommet.
5. The Ignitor does not require any modification to the distributor. Therefore the points, condenser and hardware can be used as backup.
6. Clean any oil or dirt from the breaker plate and point cam.
7. Install the Ignitor plate onto the breaker plate, and fasten Ignitor plate in place.
8. If the distributor ground wire was removed during the installation process, be sure to re-attach it securely.
9. Install the magnet sleeve over distributor shaft and onto the point cam.
   Rotate sleeve until a slight locating position is felt before applying pressure. With sleeve lined up on point cam, press down firmly insuring the sleeve is fully seated.
10. Insert both wires through the hole in the distributor housing. Pull the grommet into place. Make sure that the wires do not interfere with any moving parts.
11. Replace the rotor and distributor cap. Make sure that all spark plug wires are attached securely.
12. Connect the Ignitor black wire to the negative (-) side of the ignition coil.
13. Connect the Ignitor red wire to the positive (+) side of the ignition coil.
14. Reconnect the battery and make sure all wires are connected correctly.
15. The engine can now be started. Let the engine run for a few minutes and then set the timing in the conventional manner

and:

• Q. The engine will not start or runs rough. Are there any tests that I can do?
• A. Yes, remove the red Ignitor™ wire from the coil positive terminal.
  Connect a jumper wire from the positive side of the battery directly to the red Ignitor™ wire.
  If the engine starts and runs well, you may have a low voltage problem.
  Remember this is just a test and not intended for permanent installation.
  Read “ How to correct a low voltage poblem”
• Q. How to correct a low voltage problem?
• A. First, if you have an external ballast resistor, connect the red Ignitor™ wire to the ignition wire prior to the ballast resistor.
  Second, if you do not have a ballast resistor you must locate a 12 volt source that is controlled by the ignition switch to connect the red Ignitor™ wire to.

Well, actually, your car DOES have a fusible link, as illustrated in the schematic snip that you posted.

The fusible link, as I said earlier, goes in between the battery and the main feed to the car. If you look at that terminal, one red wire comes in from the battery and three go out:
one to the alternator,
one to the regulator, and
one to the rest of the car. This one has the fusible link. It splits and goes to the headlight switch, the "always on" circuits (dome light, cig. lighter, trunk light, etc.), and the ignition switch.
If this fusible link had melted, you would have had NO POWER in the car whatsoever.

The resistance wire is completely separate from the fusible link (though it is connected to a circuit "downstream" from it).

1.8 ohms is more than 1.5 ohms, so I would follow their reccomendation and use 12V and not the resistor wire.

Then don't install a Pertronix unit.

- Eric

 

You can hook a relay triggered by your resistor wire and then use a 12v feed to the coil.

 

Eric,
Thank you for your time and education. I just want to get this installed properly and safely!
The mechanical installation is self-explanatory. The electrical side is not clear in their instructions. I had to call and get more info. Most people just hook it to the resistor wire and drive it. I think that is how I have it hooked up in my 67 442. Looks like I need to correct that installation!

That is why this web site is so valuable to all of us.

Again thank you for all your help!
Ken

 

Please excuse me for butting in but this seems like a good place to ask my similar question. When I go back to my E engine I want to use the stock dist. converted also. Pertronix is a brand name I have always heard but I noticed that M&H offer a one-wire unit that would look stock when installed. Has anyone tried this one? Opinions? I have had good luck with their harnesses-High quality!
Thanks guys.

 

Sorry, it's just that this question comes up about every day and a half on these boards, and it comes down to four choices:

1. Run it through the resistance wire and risk poor running, or maybe get lucky.
2. Open the harness and replace the resistance wire with a copper wire, right to the cowl plug.
3. Splice in a whole new wire under the dash (or plug it into the fuse block, which I don't much like), run it to the coil, and ignore the resistor wire.
4. Connect a relay to your resistor wire and use it to switch a whole new circuit, as OldCutlass suggested, or,
5. Just leave the thing alone and adjust your points every now and then.

There is no magic solution that will let you keep your cake and eat it too.

Personally, since you like originality, I'd say just leave the points in there - after all, they worked fine for forty years...

- Eric

 

Eric,
Again thanks. I looked at some of the old threads and it just made no sense to me. Some said one way and others the other. Maybe CO could make an area for tech threads so this does not repeat every 6 months. At this point I know what to do.
Be well,
Ken

 

Actually, for completeness, I should have said six options:

6. Us a different brand of electronic unit, as there are one or two that will allow operation through the resistance wire.

I am not familiar with all of these, but there are one or two out there that have been well reviewed.

Good luck with it, I'm sure you'll get it running great!

- Eric

 

Nope. As far as I know there is not supposed to be any grey wire there, which means that someone added it later, and it could be anything.
The only grey wire in that car from the factory was the instrument panel lights wire.
You may need to do some testing to try to figure out what it is.

Sounds like you've got a the solenoid R and S terminals connected to each other.

I think you need to follow those mystery wires and see what's connected to what.

The solenoid should have one great big wire from the battery connected to the big terminal, then another less-big red wire connected from that big terminal to the horn relay. The S ("Start") terminal should have a purple wire and the R ("Resistor") terminal should have a yellow wire. That yellow wire is seen coming out of the harness in your picture.
If you are using a Pertronix setup, you can skip the yelow wire, and just leave it disconnected on both ends, which may cure your problem.

- Eric

 

I agree with MD. Yellow wire is resistance. Bypass that with a new 14 gauge wire and you should have 12 volts instead of 7.

Once I hooked the pertronix up with my MSD 6AL box, it seemed that the pertronix couldn't handle it much past 4800 rpm. It kept breaking up on the top end at the Byron B.O.P. Race. I swapped out the rev pill for a different one that I got from Bill Sullivan, and it didn't make a difference. Air fuel/ratio could have been a little lean as well though in the 13 range, so I Can't blame it 100%

 

I've used the Pertronix (Ignitor II I believe), Crane xr-i and the M&H one wire conversion, in that order. The Pertronix was fine. The Crane, it's known the built in rev limiter is off by like 500rpm. The M&H hands down the best of the three. The W-31 will be getting an M&H (to replace the Pertronix) when I get it back on the road.

 

Thanks to all for the information!
Ken