Demond's Muscle Car

Having purchased the CSM for the 1967 Cutlass from OPGI, I am a bit disappointed. I need to identify the connections/wires for the: Fan Speed Switch and the two connections on the A/C-Heater Control Head, Blower Resister, Relay, and Blower Motor, as well as the A/C Compressor.

I have a factory A/C car. The Heater Case Assy was out of the car when I got it and has been repaired to include a new Heater Core. I have a new Resistor, Relay, Diaphragm, Reconditioned Rotary Vacuum Valves, questionable Fan Speed Switch (they are hard to find and expensive ) and need to get the Water Valve (modification required).

All righty then, I done gone and installed a wicked little ole Chevy SB stroker circa 1972 solid lift type build since no motor or trani came with it. The thing is the CSM from OPGI for the 1967 Cutlass Chassis Electrical 33 thru 86 Series Fig 12-3 Wiring Diagram appears to be for NON A/C Cars.

I traced the A/C-Heater Control Wire from the Fuse Panel but I'm still geussing at connections in the pics.

I have found wiring routing but need the wiring for the above mentioned components...am I looking in the wrong place??

MDchanic

Yup.

Chapter 1C - Custom Air Conditioner (Manual, Cable Control).

All of the functional, vacuum, routing, and wiring diagrams are in there.

- Eric

tmaleck

The factory wiring diagram (sold separately) has vacuum hose routing. I also found an AC only diagram online from a 72 that was very close to the 67, I'll see if I can find it. One of the reasons I went Vintage Air was the blower switch. It is A/C only as you say and very pricey. I bought a good used one for $35.00 before I gave up on repairing the factory A/C.

Tim

Demond's Muscle Car

Tim,
MDchanic posted that diagram of the 72 Cutlass Blower Motor on 23Apr2012 . Yeah it is similar and I'll be using it. The 67 do not use the Thermal Limiter or Super Heat Switch as far as I can tell. I sprayed WD-40 in/on my Fan Speed Switch to free it up. I'm going to Radio Shack and get some contact cleaner and hope that once I get the spaghetti bowl sorted it works.

Do you know of a source for a Wiring Diagram for A/C Cars??

MDchanic,
I've looked at 1C previously and now again like you said and have found it helpful. Specifically 1C-58 thru 1C-74. Never the less, being that the previous owner did a good job of attempting a resto, I need something like the diagram/drawing you posted for the 72. I'm gonna compare that to the wiring in my pics. I had expected the CSM to have another drawing for an A/C car like Fig. 12-3.

Regardless...You Guys Are THE BEST!!!!! Thanks A-Whole-Lotta-Much!!

MDchanic

Okay, here you go.

First, the vacuum line diagrams for both the '67 L-6 and the '67 V8:







Next, the 1970 A/C wiring schematic - you are right, there is none in the '67, '68, or '69 CSMs.



- Eric

Demond's Muscle Car

Eric,
You da MAN!!
I'm studying the Vacuum Line Diagrams now. The 1970 A/C wiring schematic looks more like what I need more so than the 1972 you posted. I'll be using it.

I wonder why they did not include such an important piece of info in the CSMs for those years...go figure.

Thank you Sir!!

MDchanic

I don't know the answer, but I would imagine that there are some technical bulletins out there that contain the information. Also, since all GM cars for a number of years had essentially identical wiring for their A/C systems, it was probably assumed that once you had worked on them for a while, you'd just get it.


You're welcome!


- Eric

Demond's Muscle Car

I spent a few hours last night alternating between body work and tracing these wires down. I identify the Master Switch pigtail, Clutch Solenoid pigtail, and Resistor pigtail thought there is no jumper on it. The pigtail for the Relay is completely absent.

I now need to identify what terminal is what for both the Relay and Resistor and really the Blower Speed Switch as well. Fig. 1C-124 from the CSM for '67 shows a jumper coming from the Resistor going to the Blower but then this is a routing diagram. The diagrams above show the Blower being feed by the Relay which makes more sense to me.

I used my Ohm Meter to test for continuity to get this far, but I am unsure of how to test the terminals?? The Relay terminals are numbered.

MDchanic

First, here is a photo of the relay wiring, thanks to 69442C:

• The Purple wire goes to the fan motor.
• The Blue wire (looks green in this picture) comes from the fan speed resistor.
• The heavy Black and Orange wire comes from the high speed fan fuse, from the horn relay.
  It's the one to the left of the Purple and the Blue in the picture.
• The light Black and Orange wire comes from the High speed terminal of the fan speed switch, and triggers the high speed relay.
  It's the one that's connected all alone.

The lower three fan speeds route power from the corresponding switch terminal through all or a portion of the fan speed relay, and then through the high speed relay, to the fan.
The high fan speed routes power from the high speed switch terminal to the pull-in terminal of the high speed relay, which closes and routes power from the power terminal of the horn relay, through the high speed relay, to the fan motor.

Does this answer your question?

- Eric

Demond's Muscle Car

Eric,
Sure does!!
I usually look pretty hard on this site for answers before I post but I didn't see the one from 69442C.

I just finished wrapping my head around this and detailing diagrams for the Blower Motor Relay, Fan Speed Switch as well as the Blower Motor Resistor.

It wasn't until I got to the Resistor diagram that I found my mistake where by I had connected the High Speed Fan Pigtail to the Resistor when it needs to go to terminal 4 on the Relay. Then like a ton of bricks it hit me, as I looked back at Fig.1C-6, to connect the Blue wire in your example to that now empty terminal on the Resistor. It was all spelled out in that last post!!

I'd like to use your Magic Wand

MDchanic

Glad to help out!

That's a nice diagram - I suspect it will help others with the same questions in the future.



- Eric

Demond's Muscle Car

Eric,
Thanks for fixing the pic of the diagram. I'm a gonna figure out how the post like the Guru one of these days.

danimal442

Guys = thanks for the diagrams and pic - really helps as I'm troubleshooting why my blower isn't working at present - could have something to do with the connector at the relay - one of the sides of the terminal is melted!


Is just that three way connector available somewhere? Also, I'm having a hell of a time trying to find a blower motor resistor - the guys at the parts place keep sending me the wrong one (the terminals are turned the wrong direction.

MDchanic

Well, I was going to suggest checking at pcs connectors, but their web page is coming up blank and white.

What you're looking for is a three-cavity female Packard 56 connector. They are available.

- Eric

danimal442

Thanks Eric!!

Demond's Muscle Car

danimal442,
www.thepartsplaceinc.com part # HS2176Z is for A/C cars.
I finally went to Radio Shack and got some spade connectors for the time being. When you find the correct connectors for the Relay PLEASE post. I'll do the same if I find them.

Check this post out: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...onnectors.html
.
MDchanic,
I want to use the R4 Compressor currently on my Chevy 383 in my 67 Cutlass. I have read your reply to Nop in "Modified AC system , valve or pressure sender" where the POA has been replaced with a valve that has a Low Pressure Cycling Switch. I have also read 69442C "How To- Modifying the 68-70 A body AC Compressor Function". Having had your help in sorting the AC / Heater Control Head, Resistor, and Relay wiring I am wondering if you know of a post where by some one has combined the original functionality of the Control Head ect. with a R4 Compressor that needs to be cycled? I'm still searching the site and intend to create a drawing that will illustrate my complete ignorance while outlining what components I think I will need in order to make this "work".

danimal442

For the 3 socket connector - I bought this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300976742087

I will let everyone know the quality when it arrive. Will take some soldering but should work.


As for that resistor, I had ordered one of those from the Parts Place and they sent the wrong one. When I inquired and sent pictures of what I had, vs what they had sent, they just refunded my money. Not sure if they even have a source for the correct one. Attached pic of what they sent vs what is correct.

I'm still looking. Will update this post if I have success.

MDchanic

No, I'm sorry, I don't. There should be no functional difference, though. Fitting it together should be a matter of plumbing.

I've never used an R-4, but if I remember correctly, you can use one on a small block if you use the full bracket and pulley set from a 307 from a later model car, but if you want to install one on a big block, you will need to custom-make brackets.

- Eric

Demond's Muscle Car

danimal442,
Do a continuity check on your existing Resistor, all terminals should check positive for continuity across. See the pic I have on the post I have above where my upside down diagram is. Pulling the coils apart a little helps me thinks. Chances are yours is ok. I remember buying one but can't find it. I do believe it is for the AC cars with the four terminals. Airtex might have them, OPGI did not have the one for the AC car...they're high anyway but have quality stuff.

Eric,
I have the pulley system sorted. Since I'm running Hooker Headers I modified the Driver's Side brackets from one of the many 3RD Gen Firebird/Camaro I once wrecked .

I am just unsure of: Using an original type POA vs one of those eliminator types; Muffler; HPCO vs DFPS vs LPCS; Hold In Relay with 69442C's mod. I have a single groove NAPA 25118 R4 Compressor. Since I've isolated the Clutch Solenoid Wire by use of the diagram you posted I'm stuck.

MDchanic

I'd just use the original system with the original POA valve, myself.

The original arrangement worked well.

I'm not entirely clear on why you want to make all of these changes.

- Eric

steverw

Im thinking its Classic Auto Air that has alot of NOS parts, you might check with them.
Steve

Demond's Muscle Car

Eric / Steve,
It has been my experience that using R4 Compressors in our Early model cars that they must be cycled. Having spoken with Ron at Classic Auto Air who told me that ALL Compressors are built to run continuously I am still skeptical due to the fact that I have personally burned up several R4 Compressors that are wired to not cycle properly. Quite possibly cause I'm a dumb@$$, but they got hot and eventually failed. I know that the A6 Compressor was in fact built to run continuously and that has been confirmed by not only your posts but factory literature.

My situation is that I have a Poked and Stroked 350cid Chevy (383) solid lift in my 1967 Cutlass. Please no laughter. Yes I do have a 330cid Olds I could put in her. Never the less, with the compressor I have installed with the aligned braketry and what I have noted in the past leads me to want to do this conversion with not failures. Meaning cycle that compressor.

Ron suggested the POA Eliminator calibrated for 134a with a LPCS. He says that there is a '66 currently in their shop that they are doing a similar build to, though I may have had my Rose Colored Glassed on when I heard that.

Ron told me that the POA eliminator will cycle the R4 Compressor and I'm thinking no need for Muffler or Hold In Relay & Mod.

MDchanic

Interesting. I wonder what would cause that... There are times when even a cycling compressor will run continuously, such as on a hot day at a steady low ROM (like being in traffic).

- Eric

Demond's Muscle Car

As I eluded to earlier, I did not always do things in a correct manner. Kinda just make it work and forget what it might make fail. I don't want to be that guy anymore. Could have been not enough oil. For some reason I'm fixated on the cause being the cycling. So maybe I'm paranoid, but I still think the gremlins are after me!

danimal442

Update: The connector I received was good, but the pigtail wiring is very small, looks like maybe 18 gauge? I'm removing the packard connectors from the assembly and will reuse. Still looking for the resistor though...

Demond's Muscle Car

Yeah I would think that 18ga is too small. But I think the wiring drawing in the CSM says all wires 18ga unless otherwise noted. What does the rest of your harness look like for this Resistor Circuit?? I know mine is 14-16ga.

Demond's Muscle Car

Success!! Thank you all!!!!

MDchanic

Great!!

Demond's Muscle Car

UPDATE!!

Turn on your speakers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqhD...ature=youtu.be

MDchanic

By Jove, I think he's got it!

- Eric