Ronoman

My grandfather purchased a 1976 Oldsmobile Delta 88 in 1982 with 9,000 miles on it. He drove the car for some years as a daily driver and then he decided to baby it. He would keep it out of rain and snow for 30+ years, and just recently he gave it to me. At only 80,000 miles the car is in amazing condition, not a spot of rust anywhere. (other than the undercarriage) It has the 350 engine & the 3 speed transmission, right now the power it's putting out is pathetic, foot to the floor it takes ages to hit 60MPH. Would it be worth my time and money to try to make this a quicker car? Or is the 350 engine a limiting factor? I am a poor college student on summer break and I'd like to cheaply improve the performance. I do not have the time or money to be able to completely rebuild the engine or swap a new one in, I just want to make it more fun to drive. Tomorrow I will be giving the car a thorough cleaning and I will post pictures to this post.
Thanks

oldcutlass

Welcome to the site, it was nice of your grandfather to give you his car. Have you checked the catalytic converter. They were known to clog and the engine could not breath. It would make noise like its putting out all kind of power but not go anywhere fast. The next step would be to ask him if he ever changed the timing chain the last time it was tuned up.

MDchanic

Short answer: No.

Not worth your time or your money as a poor college student.

There are many ways to increase your power, some involving the original engine, others not, but all involve enough time and money, in various proportions, that under present conditions, they would not be worth it to you.

I'd hang on to it for a few more years, and then tackle it, when you have the time and money to do it at least reasonably well.

Welcome to ClassicOlds.

- Eric

ps: Eric's advice is good, but I would note that the large-size '76 models with the smog motors and the catalytic converters were never even close to being fast, so even if you do have a problem, and you correct it (which you should), you will still not have attained your goal.

Ronoman

Thanks!! He has kept a very complete record, including every invoice since he owned it. I did not see timing chain anywhere, as far as I know it's still the original one. Right now I have plans to recurve the distributor and make it dual exhaust. I'm hoping that will help

MDchanic

You will never remedy the extremely low compression.

It's a good idea to check, and possibly replace, the timing chain, but I would advise enjoying the car as it is, for now.

Dual exhausts are always nice, but, unless you find the cat very gummed up, I predict no noticeable improvement after the change (aside from the extra 50hp that will come from the increased noise).

Also, be advised that removing the catalytic from this car carries with it a potential $10,000 Federal fine, so I would be cautious about whom I talked to about it.

- Eric

Ronoman

My exhaust shop and I get along well. So they wouldn't say anything about the cat. My goal for this car is now going to just be to improve the drive with little modifications to preserve its condition, maybe some years down the road I'll overhaul it. Thanks everyone for the help.

MDchanic

Just making sure you know. Trouble is unlikely, but nowadays the younguns may not know what we all knew back in the Dark Ages.


Exactly what I would advise.

Keep us posted.
Ask whatever questions you may have, and...
Get a copy of the Chassis Service Manual (or at least *A* Chassis Service Manual, if the '76 proves hard to find). The Automotive History Preservation Society at WildAboutCars.com will let you download huge amounts of stuff for an annual $25 membership fee (but they don't have the '76 manual).

- Eric

Professur

Just my opinion ... there are plenty of flow through performance cats out there that don't cost all that much.

As for the car ...It's a cruiser. I know the urge is go fast ... this car is 'go comfortable'. When hotshot speeders were getting tickets and trying to squeeze into the back seat to make out, the smart kids had their girls scootched right over under their arm in the front. There are some things you can do to improve your 0-60 ... but at the expense of cash that's never going to bring the returns it would spent on a much smaller, lighter car. 5lbs of air over the recommended per tire, a bottle of well applied Seafoam, are about the best. Keep the trunk empty helps too.

Octania

Differential swap to numerically higher gears would be cheap and easy
IF you can find one
find out what your current gear ratio is

ThePackRat

Another thought would be some better gears.

I know the later 77-80 350/403 cars generally came with 2.41's standard.

Yours might have come with 2.56 or 2.73 stock.

While gears don't make more power in & of themselves, they do help make better use of the power you are already making.

Some 3.23 gears + loosing &/or replacing the original cat along with some timing & carb tweaks might make more of a noticeable difference than the full duals.

droldsmorland

Well lets start you off on the right foot with mechanics 101 so you dont break things or get frustrated. Your the next generation of care takers for our Oldsmobile's.
There is a proper path to follow to get yourself off on the right foot in the world of automotive mayhem. Start with the easy stuff and work your way up as you gain confidence. Ask questions and listen to us old timers cuz it wasn't too long ago I/we drove a new 76, 88.

First and foremost. Lets think safety before getting you to go fast. Bleed the brakes and change the soft hoses, all 3 of them. Replace your tires if they are older than 8-10 years old(with USA tires). They have a date code on them. Tire rack can help you find that. Dont want to wreck it from a blow out or a popped brake hose! Brake fluid should be changed every other year or 50K. Repack the front wheel bearings.

Change the engine oil with high grade 10W40 Shell Rotella T. Its a diesel engine oil but its good, cheap and still has the additives for your camshaft. Wally World has it cheap. Or use Mobil 1 or Royal Purple Synthetic if you can afford it?

Brand of oil filters that are internally good:
-WIX
-Napa Gold
-Baldwin
-K&N
-Delco

Is it a Chevy 350 or an Olds 350? They installed both in 76 if memories right.

IMO....A proper tuneup would be in order. A "super tune" if you will. Grandma had a 76 Brougham 88 Royal with the Olds 350. Cream body on brown. It went pretty good especially after I tuned it for her. She had a led foot! I could get rubber out of it from a stop.

Look at the ignition and fuel systems. There are many things you can to to optimize what you have already and not break the bank.

New high quality Packard ignition wires, plugs (A/Cs or Autolites not champions), GM cap & rotor. Buy good quality USA made parts (if you can find them) Stay out of the big box stores and you will generally find the higher grade parts. Such as NAPA, United, Federated etc...ask for premium GM Delco non chinese junk parts. Jegs and Summit sell high quality aftermarket grade wires, caps and rotors and low resistance rotor buttons.

Next look at the carb. Change its inline filter. Change the air filter, Use Wix filters. Or consider a K&N. Did the car ever sit for long periods? With 80K that'd be a yes. The entire fuel system may need attention from the tank sock to the carb. Biggest bang for your buck is to send the carb out to one of the well known QuadraJet rebuilders. Have them do their magic. Im willing to bet that accelerator pumps original crusty and wont tolerate today's gas for much longer. Send the distributor out for a re-curve too. You'd be surprised at what little all this costs and how much better the car will feel.

Get a vacuum gauge and a timing light and play around with the ignition curve and air/fuel mix screws once the carbs rebuilt. Ask us how to use them properly once you get them. Give it as much timing as it will handle with decent gas.

Then consider a minor trans up grade. Change the fluid and install a shift improver kit. Im sure the fluids not ever been changed and you have to drop the pan anyway to get at the filter. MAW install a mild Trans Go shift improver kit. Its easy to do just take care to be clean and properly torque the valve body. You tube a TH350 shift kit. Trans Go makes the best kit. Careful not to lose the little check *****! (ball bearings). Drop the fluid again after 500 miles. Use the correct fluid too.

All this will do a few things. Teach you the right way to go about tuning a car. Teach you how to optimize and extract all you can from the 350. save you money and frustration from doing it the wrong way. Nothing here will adversely affect the cruzer motief of this sled and you didnt spend a gazillion dollars to enjoy what is already there. Down the road once you graduate and have some expendable money then we can talk 455 TH400 dual exhaust 323:1s. Just dont get married or their wont be any expendable money...lol.
Oh and don't forget to turn the air cleaner lid upside down, that's the first thing I did to all mine!

Ronoman

Thank you everyone for the tips & advice! I have put some work into the olds now, and I've had a blast working on an older car. Since my first post I have done plugs, wires, vacuum lines and replaced the catalytic converter. Up next I plan on ordering a cap & rotor, shift improving kit, different air cleaner, timing chain and an advance kit. Here is a link to an album I made of the work I have done to her so far. http://imgur.com/a/C4GpY#0

76 Regency

Hey Ronoman,


Welcome to the forum and nice Eighty Eight! It looks like your grandfather kept her in great shape so you've got a great car to start off with! I have 2 '76 Ninety Eight Regency Coupes and I love all the full-sized Olds of this era.


I've never driven any of these era cars with a 350 but I'd imagine it's a considerable difference from the 455 of the 98's. As mentioned above, a thorough tune-up and your exhaust repairs should be a definite difference in power. Upgrading the diff and going to dual exhaust) will make a very nice improvement as well. Both of my cars are upgraded to dual and the improvement was considerable.


Where in NY are you? I'm from NY but live in Connecticut now.


What other plans do you have for the car?

MDchanic

Looks great! Definitely in good condition.

Before making any significant changes, I would recommend getting everything up to par.
You're doing well with that so far, doing plugs, wires, vacuum lines and the catalytic.

Before messing with the distributor curve, I would advise rebuilding the carburetor, as it may make a pretty big difference in performance and operation (or it may not).

Looks like you're on the right track.


I wouldn't count of that.
This is a 350, not a 455, and it is not a high-revving engine.
If there is an improvement with a dual exhaust, I predict it will be minimal.

- Eric

76 Regency

Hey Eric,


I didn't realize that a small block wouldn't benefit as much as a big block from a dual upgrade. Removing the cat and going true dual made a dramatic improvement in both of my cars but again, they're 455's.

Ronoman

@76 Regency
I am orginally from Syracuse, NY but my family moved to eastern Minnesota when I was young. That's where the car will be living from now on. I have many plans with the car, and they are changing as I go. Basically I want to make it a comfortable daily that can hang with some newerfaster cars.

@MDchanic
Okay! Would I want to send the carb out for that? Or would that be something I could do myself? I'll hold off on the recurve for a little while longer. It has been running much smoother since I first got it, though. I am also going to hold off on dual exhaust until I can get some headers and a few other upgrades. I am happy with the sound currently.

jaunty75

No.

It was in 1977 that Oldsmobile got caught with its pants down putting Chevy engines in some of their cars without telling anyone.

Here is a page out of the 1978 Olds Full-size brochure where they were now making sure to be upfront about the engine possibilities after getting burned the previous year. Note that even in 1978, this was an engine "supplement" sheet.

oldcutlass

IMHO, don't do any performance changes for this car. Just perform a good tuneup, get it running as best as it can be stock, and enjoy driving it. It is what it is, it will never be a performance car, don't treat it as one. If you want to play with performance. get an A body.

MDchanic

It all depends on how much exhaust you intend to flow.

Doing the math, we can see that a 350 will pump 175 cubic inches per revolution, which, multiplied by 4,500 RPM (roughly the power peak of a stock cam), with a typical 85% volumetric efficiency, gives us 388 CFM, while a 455 will pump 277ci per rev, x 4,500RPM x 85% = 503 CFM.

A 2¼" pipe will flow 408 CFM, which is well more than the 350's 388 CFM output, but less than the 455's 503 CFM.
A 2½" pipe will flow 509 CFM, which should be enough for a non-modified 455, but is close.

This subject was discussed (argued about - whatever) here, and later, here and here.

Of course, your actual results are the most important thing.

- Eric

Ronoman

I will be placing an order soon for a PerTronix cap & rotor, a 25in glasspack, and an air cleaner. I can't figure out which air cleaner would fit on my car. Do you guys know if any of these would?
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/m...932%7CL2*14979
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/d...932%7CL2*14979
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/e...932%7CL2*14979
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/e...979#fragment-1

Local Hero

Those of you who have done the dual exhaust on the big boats, was it a custom job,or were you able to get any kind of factory parts to do the job?

The wife's '75 88 Vert (in my avatar) still has the 100% original exhaust on it minus the converter. But dual exhaust is on the short list of upcoming projects. 350 engine. Thanks!

MDchanic

Check out Scott at Classic Exhaust in Ohio.

He can bend up a whole dual exhaust system and then pack it in a single box and ship it to you in a couple of days.

His '73 fullsize dual system fit great and was of excellent quality. It was easy to add a couple of Walker resonators (the specified stock replacement units) after the fact.
The mufflers he includes are a bit noisier than stock.

- Eric

droldsmorland

TX Jaunty...memory's the second thing to go!

Ronoman...dont just toss in lighter springs in the centrifugal advance. Olds (in stock form) like heavier springs. You can run one heavy one medium to get it to come in a little sooner but you run the risk of pre-ignition (spark knock). As for the parts to order for your dist the Pertronix stuff should be high quality. You want brass tower contacts and a high quality rotor. Get the low resistance coil button and an extra control module too. Keep the module in the glove box. You'll thank me when the old one fails. Getting it curved is the quick and simple solution. Its nice that you want to do this on your own and scrape you knuckles and get dirt under your nails. Thats how most of us learned.
Secondly Id stick with the stock air cleaner assembly. The aftermarket wont have all the features that are present on the factory unit. It could cause some drive-ability problems both in hot and cold weather.
Best bang for a stock assembly would be to upgrade to a K&N filter. Buy a chrome lid for it if you are looking for bling. Plus anything you get from Advanced WILL be chineasium junk.

MDchanic

I hadn't followed your air cleaner links, but I now see that you're not asking about air cleaner elements, but about open-element air cleaner assemblies.

Why do you want to install an open-element air cleaner?

All it will do is be noisy, interfere with your breather plumbing, cause cold-running problems (in very cold weather), reduce hot-running efficiency (by drawing in hot air from around the engine, instead of cold air from the front of the core support), and, ultimately, it will rust.

Don't waste your money.

- Eric

76 Regency

I did it on both of my '76 98's with all factory parts. You'll need a set of dual exhaust manifolds, a dual exhaust transmission crossmember from an earlier model year (I believe '71-'74 but double check this) and then simply the hangers which are all the same from right to left.


One of my cars has a system from Classic Exhaust. I was very happy with it but the only downside is that the main downpipes will come in 2 pieces each because they would be huge to ship in one piece. If you have a custom exhaust shop nearby, they should be able to make all of the pipes using the bend cards. I just had a new axle pipe and 2 tailpipes made for one of my cars for $100 at a local shop.

toro68

I second that!

Local Hero

My apologies for hijacking the original thread. But thank you very much for the info. That Classic Exhaust place is about a 30 minute drive from my house but I hadn't heard of them before. I'll likely be making a trip there to avoid shipping.

76 Regency

No problem on the hijack, it happens all the time


If you can avoid the shipping, he can probably make the downpipes in one piece too which would be even better. Good luck.

MDchanic

Yes, and he can probably make the tailpipes with the resonators welded in if you want.

- Eric

Ronoman

I will be storing this car from October to April, so I figured the hot air director wouldn't be used. But if a new air cleaner will hurt summer performance I'm not interested.

For the carburetor, which rebuild kit should I buy? I believe this is the right one (http://www.carbkitsource.com/carbs/kits/CK141.htm or http://quadrajetparts.com/quadrajet-...07b-p-564.html) But if not could someone direct be to a correct kit.

As for updates, I have a 20in glasspack being installed on Friday, plus my Performix cap & rotor will be here friday. Ill post photos and a video this weekend.

MDchanic

Think about it: Why was the OAI (or cowl induction) setup supposed to be so great for performance?


The one from carbkitsource has a float. The other one does not. Hence the $10 difference.

You could also buy a kit and a float from your local NAPA.

- Eric

Ronoman

Hey everyone! I have finished work on the olds for the summer!
Since my last update I have rebuilt the carburetor, replaced the cap & rotor, and got my glasspack installed. She sure is a joy to drive right now, and I'm planning to keep it 'as-is' for at least a few years. Here is an album of the last few pictures I have taken. http://imgur.com/a/zJbGR

MDchanic

Great!

Two comments:

1. A rubber hose after the fuel pump is not recommended.
While the odds of a "problem" (read: "sudden catastrophic fire") are not high, the potential gravity of having pints of gasoline sprayed all over your engine compartment and then ignited tends to argue toward caution.
Yes, plenty of people have done it at one time or another (including me), but, well, I was younger then.

2. Those look like original hose clamps on the radiator hoses.
Are they the original hoses?
If so, I wouldn't drive too long with them. They tend to deteriorate over three or four decades.

- Eric

Ronoman

1. When I was taking the carb off I wasn't able to get the pipe fitting out of the fuel inlet on the carb. I ended up cutting the pipe and taking the fitting off myself (third picture in the album). I then bought 20" of pipe and tried bending it myself, but I was unsuccessful. The guy at my parts store said to go with a rubber hose. If I can find someone to bend the pipe for me, I'd be glad to switch to metal pipe.

2. The clamp that attaches to the engine block is original, but the one at the radiator side is a modern one. It leads me to believe that the hoses have been changed, otherwise I might change them.

MDchanic

Someone on this board may well be happy to sell you a steel line.
A lot of people doing restorations like to replace their old tubing with new, and still have the old parts lying in a corner of their garages.

You can also buy new ones from Inline Tube (though they're way overpriced in my opinion).

Bending tubing, especially large steel tubing like that, is an art, but you can do it with a bit of practice.

- Eric

Local Hero

The fuel pump to carb line a good tube to practice bending on. I just completed a complete fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump on my Olds powered Pontiac and it took the better part of an afternoon.

Ronoman

Hey everyone! I do have plans to get a metal fuel line ran, but that probably won't be until next summer. I will be storing the vehicle this month.
I have a new problem :/ its leaking oil now. I noticed small puddles of oil where I park the car.. so this morning I started her up and looked around. The top of the water pump has a sensor that plugs in, and the leak is coming from there. Do I need to replace the water pump? The car is on its fourth one already. ImGur album: http://imgur.com/a/L7rua#4
ChkA0ka.jpg
z7Xb8If.jpg
pkMoMOV.jpg

Local Hero

That's the oil pressure sender threaded into the block. NOT the water pump. Just try replacing the sender for a few bucks and see if the leak stops.

oldcutlass

Looks like its time for a new oil pressure sending unit. It's the one just above the water pump housing that's oil soaked. Do not use Teflon tape on the threads. If there is no coolant leaking from the oil pump it does not need to be changed. There is a weep hole on the lower side of the water pump snout behind the pulley that you can check.

Ronoman

Got the sender replaced. Oil leak is gone. Thanks for the tips, guys!
j80pPkm.jpg
This week I also repacked the bearings, along with new rotors and pads. Stopping power has been greatly increased.
mJjH0c7.jpg
Also got a shiny new tip! Just a screw on from O'Rileys.. it like the way it looks.
8N8tfXK.jpg
Hereis a link to an exhaust clip (Cat delete + 20in Thrush Glasspack)

Also.. I noticed something interesting today, my driver-side front shock came through its bottom mount. Here is a video link. I'm going to take a closer look at it tomorrow.