orsogrigio

, Hi guys,

orsogrigio

I have a problem with the top, goin' down it works well, but when I try to replace it up, the switch do not work: Now, I don't know if the movement is hydraulic or completely electric, the switch must be electric, 'cause when I turn it, with an open door and the interior lights on, the lights dim as they have a loss of power. It have azlways worked as it should but two days ago, I had the car covered in garage with the top down, and to take the top up I had to move two or three times the switch to make it start. then today I took a ride and I laied the top down, and when I uppered it it worked as should (forgive my english, maybe I use wrong terms and it's difficult to understand me), so I thought ther was some contact ossidation 'cause the short use and it has been sufficient to raise

redoldsman

I would think it is either the contact on the switch or the switch itself. Try taking the connector on and off the switch a couple times and see if that helps. If it is corrosion or oxidation, that should fix it. If it doesn't try taking the switch apart and cleaning it. Good luck.

orsogrigio

it up and down two or three times to let it work again, but I was wrong, as, when I raised up last time, I had to move the switch five times before it started. Some of you had the same problem? Hope there is not to replace the motor. I had a look at the owner manual, but the convertible it is not mentioned in it, I got a look at the fuse box also, but there is not a fuse for the conv top, maybe it is related with another fuse, however, every fuse is good, the is a relay on the top of the fuse box, on the left, I have not understood for what it is

orsogrigio

sorry, but I don't know what happen, I had to write the massage in three parts

orsogrigio

thank you red, It is what I have done, as you see in my last message I had to move the switch five times before it started working, tomorrow morning I try to go to the electrician, this is a very bad period of time, as everybody sdtart to vacations and they to mechanics and related to check up and I don't know if he has the time to control mine. Hope so

redoldsman

The top probably has a thermal circuit breaker instead of a switch. They may be what your are seeing on top to the fuse panel. Maybe somebody that has had this problem will speak up.

MDchanic

Ciao Orso.

The current for the top flows through a circuit breaker, then through the switch (all of the current flows through the switch, which is too much), then through a special relay, like the one for the power seat, then to the top motor behind the seat, which is a surprisingly small electric motor.

The motor turns a gear drive, which turns the two cables, which turns another gear drive, which opens or closes the top.

Your problem is probably either the switch or the relay.
Both can be opened and cleaned.
The relays tend to burn up their contacts and go bad. They cost $50 new.
The system can be rewired with common relays so that minimal current goes through the switch, and the expensive relay is no longer needed.

- Eric

White Spyder

I am betting on the relay. Check out my repair thread.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...r-top-r-r.html

What part of italy are you from?

orsogrigio

Modena is at middle north, close to Maranello where is the Ferrari factory

orsogrigio

well guys, I have read the old thread about the problems that can happen with a convertible top. I have learned that the B-body from 72 to 76 have an All electric top and not hydraulic one, then the gear boxes need to be lubed at least once for year, that I never done, however, it's not that I use to lay down the top often. Then I learned that the top relay and motor are placed behind the rear seat, I didn't know this. Then, I read that Eric have placed (if I have well understood) the switch in a position that he can open the top standing outside so he can help to fold the top

orsogrigio

Me also, I need to help fold the top when I lay it down, but I thought the cause was the shop that replaced it did not a good job: Anyway, tomorrow I go to my Chrysler mechanic, hope he can help me, there are some Stratus and Sebring in the corner, then he worked on a 76 Eldo, but he told me that the top mechanism is hydraulic, while white spyder says is all electric. wish me luck

MDchanic

I wanted to do that, but I haven't actually done it yet.
It would be easy with my current set-up.

In case you need it for your meeting with the mechanic, here is a diagram of how to use two ordinary DPDT relays to replace the hard-to-find original relay, and reduce the current through the top switch.
I have my car set up this way, and it works well.



... And here is a photo of the installation:


In case you haven't seen my posts about this type of top, you can search the forum for posts by me with the keyword "scissor".

- Eric

orsogrigio

hi Eric, I saved the diagram and the pic, but I do not understand if you placed the switch near the top motor or you let it in the original position. he pic shows the rear seat without the back. Now I go to see your old post "scissor". Anyway, the mechanic says the problem is, as the dome lights dim when the top don't move turning the switch, in the motor itself, that begin to wear and absorb too much current. but anyway, this morning at the mechanic, we tried several times to up and down the top and it worked right, so, I sprayed with a lube all the scissor joints and greased both the gearboxes. The mechanic says it is the short use of the system that can cause this kind of problems, as the motor works as the other motors (wipers, starter etc..) and the not use maight seal the brushes, but these is a thing that I knew already

orsogrigio

now the matter is to find a top motor at a reasonable price. Rockauto have nothing, the only that have it is usapartsupplies, but cost almost 300 bucks plus shipping, so if someone have an idea of where to find a remanu one, or something modern that work the same at a better price....

MDchanic

I used the original switch.
Avevo usato l'iterruptore originale.



The name of the post is not "scissor."
Use the word "scissor" to search for a number of different posts I made on the same subject - all of them have the word "scissor" somewhere inside the post, so they will come up if you search for that word, with me as the poster.



The mechanic is wrong.
Il meccanico ha sbagliato.

The motor is an unusual type, with three separate coils:
A main power coil, an UP coil, and a DOWN coil.
The motor works by applying electric current to BOTH the power coil AND ONE of the other coils at the same time.
If you apply current to ONLY ONE coil, the coil will draw a lot of current and dim the lights, but the motor will not turn, and if you continue to do this, tho coil will burn up.

The special relay that usually goes bad has three separate sets of contacts:
One set is for high current to the main power coil,
The other two sets are for the UP or DOWN coils.
The contacts for the main power coil pass a very high current and they tend to burn out, which leaves only the UP or DOWN contacts conducting current, which will cause the lights to dim, but will not turn the motor.

You should remove and disassemble the motor (it comes apart easily), and lubricate it, then reinstall it.
It is mounted with three rubber bumpers or links, which are the same ones used to mount the top motor in Cutlasses, Chevelles, etc., and these will break when you remove the motor, but if you cannot find new bumpers where you are, you can use nuts and bolts, and you will never notice the difference.
You will see that the motor is fine.



Good. Everything has to be properly lubricated.



He is correct.
This is why it is a good idea to disassemble, clean, lubricate, and reassemble the motor.



No, it does not.
See my statement above.
This motor is unusual and does NOT work like other motors.
Your mechanic does not know what he is talking about.



No, you almost definitely DO NOT need one.
You need to clean up you old motor and replace the relay, either with a new special relay, or with a pair of ordinary relays, as in my diagram.


- Eric

orsogrigio

thank you for the suggestion, I will visit the electrician for the job, I am not a good operator, and, either the car is parked in a public garage and I have only the place for the car but not for working on it
thank you again Eric, you're a good friend

MDchanic

D'niente.

Bring him these two diagrams, which will help him understand how the top motor works.





- Eric

orsogrigio

hi guys, I have done what Eric suggested me, First, as the mechanic I consulted has been wrong in his diagnosis, (he thought the system was hydraulic whereas is all electric), so I'm gone to my old one with the Eric draft and pics, then we tested the ralay, that in effect when released the switch it had a spark on the top, so the mechanic has not replaced the original relay with two as Eric suggested, but he simply added a 70 A relay between the original one and the motor. In this way, the old relay recieve current by the switch and send it to the new one that in this way works like a bridge between the original relay and the motor itself, but it seems to work, as the top up and down faster and with less effort

orsogrigio

Hope I have not made a bullshit

MDchanic

Glad to hear you got it fixed! É un piacere sentire che l'hai fatto agiustata!

Come diciamo in inglese: «There's more than one way to skin a cat.»



- Eric

orsogrigio

yeah, thank you for the support

Delta88conv455

Think i'm gonna do the same relay thing slow as hell

orsogrigio

good luck Finnish boy, beautiful your 75