View Poll Results: What do you think the build is for my car?
cutlass w-31
0
0%
cutlass rallye 350 w-31
0
0%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll
please help me identify my 70 cutlass
May 11th, 2012, 09:29 AM
#52
CH3NO2 LEARN IT BURN IT
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Land of Taxes
Posts: 4,859
I’m trying to put my hands on a correspondence I had with Helen Early back in the day when we used snail mail. I was asking some questions regarding W45/W31s and SXs. This was before anyone was really concerned about the numbers and way before the Muscle/Super car boom. Her letters (I have a few) always came in a nice official full sized white envelops with the heritage center and Olds logos. The letter head was cool too.
If memory serves me correctly this is what she stated as the reasons for the rumors about the W45/W31s. I believe, she stated, that Olds didn’t have any records pointing to these two options coming together on the same car. It was intended to be an option at one point but that was nixed by the brass due to parts availability and marketing. Because this “junior” muscle car was meant to be an insurance beater and slide under the insurance company’s radar. Olds didn’t want a black eye. How would it look if they advertised it as such then only to find out later it has a high output engine? I’m sure there were probably lawyers involved too. But If I remember the document (which I will hopefully find and scan for all to see) the rumor came from a few back door deals in which some were bolted together under the corporate radar for the R&D guys prior to the official nix on the option. She seemed to think it was a small hand full. Is that the 10-12 everyone has heard rumor of? I don’t remember a quantity in the statement only “a hand full.” She went on to say none were released to the public. Again, she went on to say, no solid proof exists one way or the other. She made sure to iterate that point again in her closing statement. It went something to the affect "Oldsmobile did not ever assemble a RPO W45 with the optional W31 engine for public consumption" period. So that statement says “for public consumption” which could mean maybe a few were assembled for R&D purposes but never sold to us. Did they all get crushed which was normal practice? Or fitted with RPO 350 before being sold? Did they not bother to pull the W31 and a few have this sacred engine in their Rallyes without knowledge? Who knows anything was possible at the end of the psychedelic era, only the guys that did the wrenching could know? So I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet that none were built for public consumption. There is a few experts on W45s I’ve spoken to in the past many years who own(ed) several W45s who concur with the above.
And as far as I know and I’ve been around this scene for a while no one has ever produced definitive documentation stating otherwise.
If memory serves me correctly this is what she stated as the reasons for the rumors about the W45/W31s. I believe, she stated, that Olds didn’t have any records pointing to these two options coming together on the same car. It was intended to be an option at one point but that was nixed by the brass due to parts availability and marketing. Because this “junior” muscle car was meant to be an insurance beater and slide under the insurance company’s radar. Olds didn’t want a black eye. How would it look if they advertised it as such then only to find out later it has a high output engine? I’m sure there were probably lawyers involved too. But If I remember the document (which I will hopefully find and scan for all to see) the rumor came from a few back door deals in which some were bolted together under the corporate radar for the R&D guys prior to the official nix on the option. She seemed to think it was a small hand full. Is that the 10-12 everyone has heard rumor of? I don’t remember a quantity in the statement only “a hand full.” She went on to say none were released to the public. Again, she went on to say, no solid proof exists one way or the other. She made sure to iterate that point again in her closing statement. It went something to the affect "Oldsmobile did not ever assemble a RPO W45 with the optional W31 engine for public consumption" period. So that statement says “for public consumption” which could mean maybe a few were assembled for R&D purposes but never sold to us. Did they all get crushed which was normal practice? Or fitted with RPO 350 before being sold? Did they not bother to pull the W31 and a few have this sacred engine in their Rallyes without knowledge? Who knows anything was possible at the end of the psychedelic era, only the guys that did the wrenching could know? So I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet that none were built for public consumption. There is a few experts on W45s I’ve spoken to in the past many years who own(ed) several W45s who concur with the above.
And as far as I know and I’ve been around this scene for a while no one has ever produced definitive documentation stating otherwise.
May 11th, 2012, 10:07 PM
#53
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 32
Ok so i been thinking. I found the 1972 7a heads on my engine. could just the heads have been replaced and still original block? Whats this serial number under the 7a? is that tab on the block or just the heads and what does it mean? the numbers below the 7a are 32m229919.
if thats just the vin for the heads how can i know exactly what year the engine is?
if thats just the vin for the heads how can i know exactly what year the engine is?
May 12th, 2012, 06:35 AM
#58
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
The rest of the numbers are the numeric portion of the VIN of the car that the engine came out of. Compare them to your VIN and they will be different, thus your car is not "numbers matching."
There is no way to tell what that engine came out of originally, but all '72 motors were 8.5:1, and the intake and carb have been replaced, so it really doesn't matter.
'70 350s were either 9:1 or 10.25:1, and had a variety of different cam and carb possibilities, so it could have originally been any of those.
Without a dealer sticker or order sheet, or a build sheet (which you'll never find) you'll never know, and it will never be a documented or numbers-matching car, so you might as well do what you want with it.
- Eric
There is no way to tell what that engine came out of originally, but all '72 motors were 8.5:1, and the intake and carb have been replaced, so it really doesn't matter.
'70 350s were either 9:1 or 10.25:1, and had a variety of different cam and carb possibilities, so it could have originally been any of those.
Without a dealer sticker or order sheet, or a build sheet (which you'll never find) you'll never know, and it will never be a documented or numbers-matching car, so you might as well do what you want with it.
- Eric
May 12th, 2012, 08:06 AM
#59
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 32
what is the difference between 8.5:1 and 9:1? and what engine is better the 70 or 72? or are they about the same? I dont understand what them numbers mean. < sorry im still a complete noobie at this but im a fast learner. 
May 12th, 2012, 07:04 PM
#62
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
Within certain parameters, and with the understanding that any change you make to an engine will have both advantages and disadvantages, yes.
Wikipedia (of all places) seems to have a reasonably brief primer on the subject.
If you are at that basic a level right now, it may help you to do some background research in order to better understand the underpinnings of what is being discussed here. There's too much information to accurately convey in a few posts.
- Eric
Wikipedia (of all places) seems to have a reasonably brief primer on the subject.
If you are at that basic a level right now, it may help you to do some background research in order to better understand the underpinnings of what is being discussed here. There's too much information to accurately convey in a few posts.
- Eric
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