Rick E

My dad passed away recently and passed me his 1970 cutlass. There are stories that its a rallye 350 and also stories that its a w-31.
Can you guys help me identify it?
the tag under the hood says ...
body by fisher
st70 33687LAM361538 BDY
TR 930 - - PNT
01D

all the original title says is
1970 oldsmobile 2 door holiday coupe.

Heres a few pictures of it.

http://i49.tinypic.com/5yan2f.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/r2oth4.jpg

I was told to tear into the back seat and find some paper about it but would really rather not have to do that.

Engine casting number is 395558 2.

What other information should i look for to figure this out?

droptopron

The pics look like a Rallyr 350. They original came with yellow bumpers but a lot were changed to make them more sellable.

Rick E

Ill post more pictures later tonight. Thx for anyones help!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Your car is from Lansing Michigan, so there will be no build sheet, no matter where you look. Under the seat, above the gas tank, in the dashpad.

As said by many other people, i challange anyone to come up with a build sheet from a lansing car.

In any case, it looks to be a Rallye 350. Check out wildaboutcars, it's a great site with alot of info on this type of thing.

stevengerard

paint job says rallye 350, the bumpers could have been changed, the cars didn't come with trim rings either but many dealers put those on to sell the car as well. And many owners did too.

The Cowl tag paint code of two dashes PNT -- does mean it was a special order color and Sebring Yellow is one of those four.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I hope whoever told you that has an early 70's lansing car. If so, ask them to rip their seat out first to prove it

Cool looking car BTW

Jamesbo

Looks like a Rallye 350 to me to.

p.s. X2 don't bother looking for a build sheet in Lansing built car.

Rick E

could it be a rallye 350 and they special order the bumpers like that? I was told this car was ordered custom built and was 1 of a dozen. Also its automatic and the shifter is in between front bucket seats. Its not bench seats. Ill try to look at the tranny today and see if i see the JO on it for w-31.

how else can i authenticate if its w-31 or rallye 350? i can do whatever needed to search on it today when im at my moms. I keep it in her garage to stay safe.(she lives in a good neighborhood.) :P

Why is there no build sheet for cars out of lansing mi?

Rick E

Thank you everyone your so fast with the info im impressed! Also thanks Tony for the compliment.

droptopron

Also, to the best of my knowledge they never built a Rallye 350 W31.

Rick E

i got this from hemmings.com

"Many enthusiasts assume that the W-31 high-performance Olds 350 (325hp) was optional in the Rallye 350 cars, and it would seem like a natural, but according to the original order form and word from several experts, the W-31 was not available in the Rallye 350. Original internal documents seem to bear this out, by focusing on the Rallye 350's "insurability" due to its engine's "more practical horsepower rating."
There were reputedly about a dozen W-31 Cutlasses painted Sebring Yellow, but these are not Rallye 350s. Some of the confusion may have come from the popular practice of fitting Rallye 350 engines with the W-31 aluminum intake manifold, which at the time was readily available from the dealer's parts counter at what we're told was a very reasonable cost."

Do you think thats where the 1 of a dozen thing came from and its just a w-31 while just looking like a rallye 350? and custom ordered the spoiler etc.?

Rick E

This is what im told from another source about the tag code. st70(model year) 3(olds) 36(cutlass) 87(2 door hard top fastback coupe) LAM(lancing mi.) 361538(unit number) tr930(black interior stratio seats) 01d(made fourth week of jan)

does this sound about right to you guys?

Tony72Cutlass'S'

No worries, im in the "slow" process of completely gutting and rebuilding a 72 Cutlass 'S'.

The lansing plant just didnt put the build sheets into the cars when they were done. Other plants did indeed put the build sheet in various places.

So. the only way to truly "Document" a w-30 or rallye 350 from lansing is to use "broadcast cards" they're little half sheets of paper that have various options written on them. Here is a sample i found in my car under the carpet, and in the door panel.



Here is a link to my "build thread" take a look if you want to see a rust bucket slowly transformed into something somewhat desirable.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...cutlass-s.html

DENT

Cool car , hope you keep it and restore it.

Rick E

You found 2 of them? what door and where in the carpet?

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Passenger door, and rear carpet right near the backseat. As you can see it was practically ruined by salt and the tests of time.

slantflat

Wow that could go either way. Lansing car with double dash for the paint, built in January, has most of the Rallye 350 stripes. But aside from the bumpers and trim rings, it has grey wheels and doesn't say Rallye 350 on the quarters.

Rick do you know how original the car is?

Rick E

It should be all original aside from carb, intake, and exhaust. Ill take pics of the underbelly and engine and interior today.

Rick E

I came across this and it looks very similar to my car aside from the black stripe down the side and the black top. http://www.carsforsale.com/used_cars...F+74_128307147

Rick E

"Helen Early has confirmed about a dozen W-31 Rallye 350's were made. So they are out there.

1,352 were sold.
207 F-85 club coupe
116 Cutlass club coupe
1029 Cutlass hardtop coupe
"

i got this from
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofwmc.htm

could this person have gotten mixed up that there was a dozen sebring yellow painted w-31s with the spoiler? making it seem to be a rallye 350?

Rick E

Also the car has S emblems on the interior on the doors and it does have the w-25 fiberglass hood.

slantflat

The Rallye 350 came with the fiberglass hood. And unless it's an F85 Rallye 350 it will have S emblems on the door panels.

Now, looking at the W31 on cars.com it has W31 badges on the fenders. Yours doesn't have anything. If you can find out what was on the fenders under the Cutlass script that will likely answer your question. A Rallye 350 will have an S badge, unless it's the aforementioned F85, in which case it will only say F85.

droldsmorland

Rick,
The only way you'll ever verify a Rallye 350, W31 would be with rock solid documents, period. That paper work must have W45 & W31 called out on the same document...period. That document would be the window sticker with the cars vin on it or the broadcast card with the cars vin on it. All the correct parts must be present and accounted for and have matching numbers…period. To date no W45 W31s have surfaced. The late Helen Early of Olds Historical Society was reported to have some record of a few that allegedly slipped out of Lansing, ~10 or 12. again, to date none have surfaced with documents. Now 10-12 of the 160 S coupes were reported as stick cars but not W31s. That could be the confusion? The automatics outnumbered the stick cars. There were reportedly about a dozen W-31 Cutlasses painted Sebring Yellow, but these are not Rallye 350s. Some of the confusion also may have come from the popular practice of fitting Rallye 350 engines with the W-31 aluminum intake manifold, which at the time was readily available from the dealer's parts counter at what we're told was a very reasonable cost.

Because they didn’t sell well and languished on the lots into 1971, dealers did try to tone them down and make them look like a regular Cutlass to move them by putting trim rings on the wheels and adding chrome bumpers.

3547 total Rallyes were built between O1A-ish and O5D or early June. All were Lansing built and must have the M in the vin. The vin ranges were reportedly ~239000 to 327000ish. All had black interiors, either bench or bucket. All W45 Rallye 350s came standard with L-74, 310 HP, 350, #6 heads, -- paint code for special order Sebring yellow exterior. All came with the W25, OAI hood, FE2 suspension, W35 rear spoiler, N-10 dual exhaust with 442 cut out bumper, Super Stock II (Some will say technically SS III wheels) painted Sebring yellow w/o trim rings as well as the urethane coated color keyed bumpers. That’s what made up the Rallye package.
Other options were available as well, A/C, power windows/locks/trunk, cruse Disc brakes etc…

Of the 3547:
-1020 were F85 Club (post) Coupes, with Stainless around door/quarter window, no carpet instead rubber mat, Cutlass script on fenders
- 160 were Cutlass Sport (post) Coupes with the Cutlass “S” options. No Stainless on the doors/quarter windows (which you would think would apply to the above Club Coupe vs the S?). Cutlass script on the fenders with “S” script under it and more more options like carpet.
-2367 were Holiday coupes (no post) and were typically loaded up with more options.
Does your car look like the paints originally Sebring? I don’t see any scripts on the front fenders so it’s been repainted in at least that area. Look in the hard to reach areas for over spray like behind the door panels, under the carpet/seats, under the A pillar covers, in the trunk. These areas are often over looked with a repaint. Does the engine/trans # match the vin? Does the trunk wing look like a factory installation? You may just have a special order paint Cutlass painted Sebring with an optional W25 hood and someone added the spoiler & stripes or it could be the real deal? Though the vin is out of the known production range. All that said it still looks like a solid car and it was your fathers so why not restore it or sell it to someone who will as a tribute to him.

Diego

Perhaps you meant to say 160 were Cutlass S post coupes? There's nothing F-85 about those 160.

Additionally, any number being thrown out there, whether W-31 Rallye or yellow W-31, is unsubstantiated. Too much misinformation and old wive's tales are continuing in a thread when someone should have put a stop to them by now.

What is needed is someone who's an expert in Rallyes to use their archeological abilities to narrow things down whether yes or no. And, then, if there are signs it's not a Rallye, the same should be done with a W-31 expert. But without documentation, it's kinda tough, no?

joe_padavano

Can't tell with certainty what it is without a build sheet. The car has Rallye 350 stripes on the hood and around the back window but not on the sides. Has it been repainted?

bstrauss

HI,I have a 70 rallye and i found a card like that when i recovered my frt bucket seats.

Rick E

well sad news, im told the engine was replaced. engine inside of it is the 395558 2 but its stamped big 7 small A toward the front on the driver side and on the back passenger side.
Im told this was a 1972 model engine.
Kinda depressing its not the original but is the 1972 engine as good?
Im not really interested in selling it since its not top dollar so ill restore it myself and love on it.
The paint is original but my dad took off some of the metal chrome cutlass things getting ready to get it painted.

Rick E

Tony72Cutlass'S'

You're REALLY lucky you actually have your dad's car.

I bought my cutlass, to rebuild, and eventually give to my dad since it's the same model as his first car.

On the note of the 72 engine, it's a tank, mine is all original and still running 40 years later. I'd say with a bit of a freshen up and some original parts, yours would look great.

Here are some before and after pictures of mine. This one right below, was when i bought the car in 2009.



Here is a shot i grabbed last night.

Rick E

damn looks pretty clean. you did a nice job bro.

Rick E

Does anyone know a good place to look for a wiring diagram for my car? My dad almost caught the car on fire while racing it one time at national trails raceway and he let the car sit for 25 years and started trying to trace the problem but never finished so now there are wires disconnected and not hooked up like he was testing stuff. there is a wire from the coil to next to the battery and i doubt it was suppose to go to the battery. Im decent with mechanics but not so great with wiring. If i study the diagram i could possibly fix the problem myself without bringin it to a mechanic.

I have the chilton for cutlass 1970-1987 but it seems confusing and i havent been able to find the correct wiring diagram for it in there yet. can anyone point me in the right direction please?

bkeese

The Rallye 350 had a ground strap between the bumper bolt and the right rear tail light. It was because of the utherane bumpers which you don't have, but probably left the factory with. If that strap is there I would say without a doubt it is a Rallye 350. With the engine gone, no way to even guess if it was a W31 without documentation. My Rallye 350 has w31 emblems on the side, but the engine doesn't have ANY W31 parts except probably the cam. All that does is mess up my power brakes.

Does the trunk lid say Oldsmobile or Cutlass?

Rick E

trunk lid says cutlass and what does this strap look like? do u have a pic of it?

Rick E

Rick E

duel exhausts come out of in front of the back wheels.

bkeese

Looking more and more like a special order paint (1 of 4) Cutlass.

The only thing that says Rallye 350 is the rear stripe. The color, wing, rear bumper (should be 442 style (cutouts)), hood, Cutlass on the truck all can be just Cutlass. I think what you have is a special order paint Cutlass. Look under the carpet and see what paint color you find? It may be Rally Red, the hottest color ever put on a car. Don't get depressed, it's still a cool car just not 1 of 12.

The ground strap is about 6 inches long and I believe black. Oh yea, W31 were never undercoated. Take a picture of the harmonic balancer, if it W31 it's worth a bunch.

MDchanic

If you don't have a Chassis Service Manual, then get one.

Meanwhile, download one from WildAboutCars. There's on in there.

- Eric

DENT

Hey ,, I like the bumper sticker

Tony72Cutlass'S'

You know,

I bet if you washed/compounded/waxed the car, it wouldn't even need a coat of paint.

Sometimes when things are too pretty, they loose their charachter!

70olds455

Shouldn't the rear bumper have cutouts for dual exhaust?