ChefDeadpool

I'm installing a Pertronix Ignitor II and a Flame Thrower II coil. Everything is in, but I still need to get rid of the ballast resistor. I just made a plug-in jumper wire that goes in its place. Where it at?

MDchanic

It's the wire that used to go to the (+) terminal of the coil from the fuse block (not the one from the starter motor).

You need to run a new wire or tap off a different source (the circuit is the heavy pink wire coming from the ignition switch under the dash). It is possible to remove the ballast resistor wire from the firewall fuse block plug and replace it with a regular wire, but that's up to you.

- Eric

ChefDeadpool

Will the spade that's unoccupied marked IGN on the fuseblock work? Or is that the starter circuit? (It seems to give 12.56 volts with the key in the RUN position)

MDchanic

It'll work, but you need to decide whether you want to have your motor depending on that little plug - if you were to kick it, or it were to slip off, BAM! - engine off.
Bad on the highway at 80mph.

- Eric

Lady72nRob71

Also bad if the fuse blows on that circuit and the engine dies. That contact comes off the reverse lamps / TCS fuse.
It could be used if you accept those downfalls.

To do it right and safe, I would remove (or at least loosen and reposition) the left fenderwell and remove the flugs from the fuse block. One bolt holds them on. Find and remove the resistor wire contact and replace it with a new wire and contact. Reinstall the connectors and fender well. If you are lucky, you will do only this and not have it start a frame-off....

ChefDeadpool

Hmm, you have a point. It'll at least work for setting it up though. However, where is the resistor in the wire? Is it under the dash, or in the engine bay, or what?

Lady72nRob71

It is THE wire, from the coil to the fuse block plug!
It is a certain thickness and length to make up a certain resistance.
The whole thing must be replced with regular automotive wire, probably 16ga.

ChefDeadpool

Ah! Thank you, Rob. It makes complete sense now.

I'll pull the fuse box block tomorrow. I wanted to do that anyway to clean the contacts off. May as well kill two birds with one stone.

Jaybird

ChefDeadpool: Is that all you are planning to do while you are under the dash? Some people here have gotten carried away.

Lady72nRob71

It would be more direct to go in through the fenderwell side. less of a chance of damaging wiring than trying to pull the fuse block from under the dash...

ChefDeadpool

Oh, sorry, that's what I meant, on the engine bay side, not the interior side. By block I meant the whole bulkhead attached to the opposite side of the fusebox, not the box itself.

Yellowstatue

Nichrome wire...

ChefDeadpool

Hmm, it's in, runs pretty much the same as the points, but the timing mark on the harmonic balancer doesn't drift anymore. Starting is randomly easy or requires cranking.

Cleaning off the terminals seems to have helped the lights/blinkers a bit. They're consistant now, but when you turn the headlights on, they slow down (but still consistantly). Wierd. Time to make a few more posts.

MDchanic

Not surprising. It has been mentioned in a number of threads here that the only real advantage of the Pertronix system is reducing maintenance requirements. If you install one and the car runs markedly better, then your points weren't set up right.

Not really.

When you turn on the headlights, they draw more current, reducing the voltage of the system by a half a volt or so. That difference in voltage heats the bimetallic strip on the flasher up more slowly and causes a slower flash rate.

It's a useful tool for those who don't have voltmeters installed in their dashboards.

- Eric

ChefDeadpool

Can I speed up the flashers to modern car flasher speed by replacing the flasher then? Seems like you could install one with a smaller bimetallic strip and it should trigger the flashers at a faster rate.

MDchanic

The old-style flashers tend to have a variety of speeds.

My practice has always been to grab a handful of them every time I'm at the junkyard, then I can try them out and pick the one with the speed I like best.

If you want an absolutely standard, unvarying speed, go spend $15 at the auto parts store to buy an electronic one, but you'll lose the ability to use them as a seat-of-the-pants voltmeter.

- Eric

edit: rereading your post, it sounds as though perhaps you've got a bad flasher.
Flashers are supposed to work between a specific set of parameters. I don't recall exactly right now, but I think they're supposed to have a frequency of somewhere between ½ and ¾ of a second. If yours is wrong, then either it's got the wrong load on it (bulbs burned out, or too many extra lights, or a short), or it's no good.
Just swap your signal light flasher and your 4-way flasher and see if you like it better.

oldcutlass

As far as your flasher speed, it's based on voltage. With your lights on, it puts more of a load on the alternator and/ or regulator. Another cause is if your idle is too low!

I don't believe your 4 way and turn signal flasher are interchangeable.

Lady72nRob71

4-way flasher is designed to flash 2X the number of bulbs than the TS flasher...
Not the same.

MDchanic

Well, then, you should tell all the GM cars I've interchanged them on over the past 30+ years that they should stop working.


I've never heard that before.
If it's true, then why?
Either of them should stay on continuously with only one bulb lit (signal light bulb burned out) and both of them should flash on 2, 3, or 4 bulbs, because you DON'T want your flashers to NOT work if you've got a bulb out.

- Eric

MDchanic

On further examination, I find that the Parts Manual lists 4 different flashers from '64 to '75.
491389 is listed only for Toronados.
491391 is listed for trailer packages (flashes more lights - heavy-duty flasher)
491392 is listed for F-85s up to '69.
491160 is listed for everything else.

No distinction is made between 4-way and signal light flashers for any model or year.

Interestingly, all flashers are listed as discontinued except for the 491389 Toro flasher, so GM only provided one type to dealers regardless.

So, I will repeat, try switching the flashers, and it might work fine.

- Eric

oldcutlass

As I have not changed one in about 30 years, I can admit I may be wrong? I'll poke my head under my dash this evening, if I get a chance.

MDchanic

And, to split the difference between all of out opinions, on a different page (section 2.575, page 2-55), I just found "Flasher, Hazard warning, '65-'75, All -- 491391," which is the same as the trailer flasher, and also shows discontinued.

So, it looks like they installed a regular-duty flasher in the signals (probably to get the "one-bulb -- no-flash" indication), and a heavy-duty flasher in the 4-ways, which probably flashes no matter how many lights are on.

It looks like NAPA lists flashers as either "Turn Signal" or "Hazard," so maybe there is a difference.

I still maintain, though, that either one will work identically in either socket.

- Eric

oldsmobuser

Get an electronic flasher which has no moving parts

oldsmobuser

The turn signal and 4 way flashers are interchangeable because they are the same part number.

MDchanic

In some listings.

Either one should work in either location, though.

- Eric

oldsmobuser

You are correct. Even if you have the wrong part number flasher in a different location as long as the terminals on the flasher match the plug it will work. The flasher doesn't know it's the wrong part number. I have been working on cars for over 25 years for a living. If the flasher doesn't work it's defective. Some are more heavy duty than others, but you can switch them.