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Slightly newer than my last one! '69 Cutlass Holiday Sedan just arrived from Oklahoma, very original car, not run it at least 3 years, probably longer, no brakes, dirty.. now the fun begins!
Roger in NY
Nice solid car! Looks almost like my Supreme, Just missing front and rear side moldings to paint the lower rockers Argent Silver and window sills. Also I have a Halo top with a CS emblem, I don't know if that was unique to the Supreme. On your car someone replaced the tail lenses with Supreme lenses. The Supreme lenses have the silver trim molded into them. If you switch back let me know, I would like to buy them, because they are not reproduced. Also be very careful with the vent window gaskets, the only replacements I have been able to find would be from Steel Rubber if I wanted to pay $30,000.00 for a mold.
Great news Roger! She is a beaut for sure and glad she made the trip safe and sound. Keep us posted on your progress. I think there may be some bad gas in the tank. It has been closer to 6 or 7 years since it has been on the road. I think you have the last license plate it wore on the front floorboard.
Joe,
I think his tail lights are confusing you, they are Supreme lenses. When I first saw Holidaysedan's picture I too thought his car was a Supreme. His car is missing the stainless moldings going from the bumpers to the wheel wells. I don't think Holidaysedan's car has window sills either. The pictures that Holidaysedan had of his interior in a previous thread. are not of a Supreme. Also Joe, I have been very impressed with your knowledge on these cars, can you shed some information about the vinyl tops? My car along with a parts car I had bought have a Halo top that goes lower into the rear doors. It is weird that I have a chrome emblem on my rear doors that I had to paint the vinyl tops color on. Holidaysedans top is not a Halo design, was the Halo top an option?
Thanks,
Noel
Last edited by Noel Anderson; Dec 31, 2019 at 09:34 AM.
Thanks all, 4+4+2 found this car in OK and facilitated everything, been looking for one for quite awhile, a rather hard find in the Northeast.. I'm unclear as to whether it's a Supreme or not as it's got mixed signals, like those tail lenses. I'll need to find a build sheet if it's under the seat or does VIN 336399Mxxxxxx give any clues? M tells me it's a Lansing built car. It doesn't have the contrasting silver paint band under the side trim, nor the CS interior, and I'm not sure whether the halo roof was a CS standard, the brochure shows a red regular Cutlass Holiday Sedan with a halo roof and black vinyl, so it was evidently optional on all 4 dr hardtops, but standard equipment on the Supreme? Also the dash on this car doesn't have the wood-grain. So I'm leaning towards a standard Cutlass.
Possibly the rear lights were replaced, I can't get the trunk open yet but there may be evidence of a past rear-end hit, as the bumper looks possibly like a replacement and the trunk paint is crazed, unlike anyplace else on the car, a possible sign of a repaint, beyond the obvious repaint of the rest of the car at some point.
Joe,
I think his tail lights are confusing you, they are Supreme lenses. When I first saw Holidaysedan's picture I too thought his car was a Supreme. His car is missing the stainless moldings going from the bumpers to the wheel wells. I don't think Holidaysedan's car has window sills either. The pictures that Holidaysedan had of his interior in a previous thread. are not of a Supreme. Also Joe, I have been very impressed with your knowledge on these cars, can you shed some information about the vinyl tops? My car along with a parts car I had bought have a Halo top that goes lower into the rear doors. It is weird that I have a chrome emblem on my rear doors that I had to paint the vinyl tops color on. Holidaysedans top is not a Halo design, was the Halo top an option?
Thanks,
Noel
Actually, I just looked quickly at the side trim and assumed it was a Supreme, but you are right, and the 33669 VIN proves the car is a Cutlass Holiday Sedan as shown in this page from the 1969 dealership brochure. The factory vinyl top on all 69 Holiday Sedans was a halo top. The one on the OP's car must be an aftermarket or dealer-installed replacement. The cowl tag will tell you if the car came from the factory with a vinyl top or not. And yes, the painted textured trim was also used on the trunklid of the 68-69 Holiday Coupes with vinyl tops. The paint chip chart lists the colors for this paint - note the listings in the lower RH corner of the paint chip chart below.
The vent-seal rubber is like new oddly, but the rubber along the window bottom/door top is heavily cracked, hopefully those are available from Steele or Metro; good sealing is particularly important on a 4 dr hardtop. The dash pad is good, as are the door panels and headliner, but the door panel vinyl needs a respray with SEM, have done on past Olds and Chevs and it comes out like new if directions are adhered to. SEM can custom match to any sample...but it's not cheap. Carpet needs replaced - I've had good luck with Stock Interiors molded carpet in the past. Vinyl seats are passable but would like to replace eventually with stock-pattern cloth later on, just don't like sitting on vinyl...that was covered in a previous thread. All in all the goal is a nice driver, but not a show car. Never been a show guy with any of my cars, in fact the more original the better.
The brochure also shows the lower dash to be wood-grained on that same page, yet mine is green. Wonder if wood-grain is supposed to be standard, or was so later on in the year? Being a Jetaway car, I'd assume then that it was not a later production car?
pic of the cowl tag - interpretation below
:
ST 69 33699 LAN144052 BDY
TR 912 59 59 PNT
10B
Last edited by holidaysedan; Dec 31, 2019 at 10:37 AM.
The woodgrain was RPO BC1, a $10.53 option on the Cutlass line that year. The woodgrain was standard on the Cutlass Supreme and 442 models.
And as we suspected, your cowl tag shows 59 59, which means Meadow Green Poly lower and upper body colors, so this was not a factory vinyl top car. Had the top been factory, the second "59" would have been replaced with a letter that designated the top color. That, of course, explains the lack of a halo top. It's an aftermarket installation.
"be very careful with the vent window gaskets, the only replacements I have been able to find would be from Steel Rubber if I wanted to pay $30,000.00 for a mold."
I may be mistaken, but IIRC all 1968-9 (possibly 70-72) A-body 4-door HT use the same rubber seals regardless of make. IE Cutlass, Chevelle, Skylark and Tempest would all use the same parts. Doubtful GM would have spent the money for each make to have its own tooling.
In other words, if you can't find it listed for Cutlass, look for same parts for a Chevelle. I did that for the Gray Ghost wagon's door w/strips and no one listed them for Olds. Caprice Estate and Impala wagons were listed, and those cars are identical from the firewall back, ergo use Chev parts and they fit like they were made for it- which they were.
"be very careful with the vent window gaskets, the only replacements I have been able to find would be from Steel Rubber if I wanted to pay $30,000.00 for a mold."
I may be mistaken, but IIRC all 1968-9 (possibly 70-72) A-body 4-door HT use the same rubber seals regardless of make. IE Cutlass, Chevelle, Skylark and Tempest would all use the same parts. Doubtful GM would have spent the money for each make to have its own tooling.
In other words, if you can't find it listed for Cutlass, look for same parts for a Chevelle. I did that for the Gray Ghost wagon's door w/strips and no one listed them for Olds. Caprice Estate and Impala wagons were listed, and those cars are identical from the firewall back, ergo use Chev parts and they fit like they were made for it- which they were.
Unfortunately, Steele doesn't list vent window seals for any of the 1968-up A-body four door hardtops. And only the 68-69 cars got vent windows. The 70-72 Holiday Sedans did not.
No doubt due to market considerations 4 dr hardtops as well as 4 dr post sedans definitely get short shrift in all the reproduction maker's catalogs...things like seat covers, unique trim, door related stuff, and so on, but at least there's some common trim parts.
Luckily the vent window seals are near perfect. I'd imagine that the 4 door hardtop door window seals would vary by make since the rooflines on Chevelle, Skylark, and LeMans are quite different, and even for Chevelle/Malibu the demand for 4 dr hardtop stuff is comparatively quite limited vs coupe, unfortunately.
I'd imagine that the 4 door hardtop door window seals would vary by make since the rooflines on Chevelle, Skylark, and LeMans are quite different, and even for Chevelle/Malibu the demand for 4 dr hardtop stuff is comparatively quite limited vs coupe, unfortunately.
The rooflines are different behind the front doors. The windshield frames and thus the vent window frames are the same across A-body four door hardtops.
It's door window gaskets I need, the vents are fine, the former hard and cracked. Even front window seals would be good, if available, I'll take whatever I can get! If sold by the foot I can make that work too.
As to my avatar pic. I'll leave the pic of my old completely original (with a/c!) from Phoenix AZ '56 98 Holiday Sedan on here... it's living nearby and it may yet come home again! Let's face it, there's plenty enough Cutlass/442 pics on here... and when it comes to Oldsmobiles, as lovely a car as a '68-72 Cutlass is, they are THE belly button Olds cars, and I love 'em all, as you can see below!
Last edited by holidaysedan; Dec 31, 2019 at 03:48 PM.
Between Steel Rubber and Fusick I was able to get all my weatherstripping and rubber for my car. Corectly molded too. The only rubber I could not get was the vent window gasket and the rubber top on the center post between the doors. I believe I had read that there was 4 different vent windows used that year because of the different windshields angles used. Fusick does have the window felts for the non Supreme Holiday Sedans. I accidentally ordered them for my car, but since the felts are attached to the window sills they did not fit. I ended up making them from felt strips I bought from Steel. They had to be bent and glued to the sills.Steel also now makes the seal that goes between the vent window and the door window. They used my seals to reproduce them for their catalog. Steel was great to work with and they even sent me a pair for free. On the Supreme, the glove box door will say Cutlass Supreme and not Cutlass. Also the interior front door panels will have the CS logo centered on a silver trim piece. I also believe the Supreme cars only came with the 350 engines with 4 barrels and a 350 turbo hydromatic trans and not a jetaway, Joe can you confirm this? Holiday sedan, I am curios what the two rear lower corner moldings are on your car, as mine are chrome pot metal and form to the body and sit lower on my car. I find it funny that someone put a different top on your car since around here everyone wants to remove them and paint the car top. Although when I brought my cay to the Olds show in Columbus Ohio, it seemed like everybody was impressed to see a four door hardtop with a vinyl roof. Also Fusick does sell a rear package tray for your car even though it is not in their catalog its part number is CUT-PTJ-035 if you need it. Holidaysedan, if you need any other parts let me know, I have been looking at so many vendors restoring my car. A four door hardtop is harder to restore than your average 2 door.
Noel
Last edited by Noel Anderson; Dec 31, 2019 at 03:55 PM.
Noel: thanks for the info! Actually back in day - I was there, got my license in '67 - most Olds buyers wanted a vinyl roof, except maybe not in a 4-4-2. 4 dr hardtops were not usually bought by sporty-type drivers... my Dad bought a 4 dr hardtop Fury III in '67, then Galaxie 4 dr hardtops in '69 and '72, all with vinyl roofs, then a '77 Electra Limited 4 dr sedan, and for that car he actually had the Buick dealer put a vinyl roof on it before he brought it home because the one that had the color he wanted was missing a vinyl roof, and it was the expectation at that time that a top of the line car would automatically have one... times have changed!
PS weird that the '69 Supreme and regular Holiday sedans would have different window gaskets/seals due to sills!
Last edited by holidaysedan; Dec 31, 2019 at 05:17 PM.
Holidaysedan,
If you will pay for shipping I will send you the window felts free of charge since I could not use them on my Supreme. As I said they are brand new and never got used, and I doubt there are not to many people that could use them. I would like to see as many four door cars saved as possible. According to my research there was 8,714 1969 Cutlass Supreme Holiday Sedans made. I don't know how many 1969 Cutlass Holiday Sedans were made, but I would guess a few more than the Supreme. Most people say about 1% of cars would still be around at their age, but since most 4 door cars were scrapped to save the 2 door models, I would guess there are only around 50-75 of my Cutlass Supreme Holiday Sedans left. Maybe someday the four door prices will be going up in value just like the Vista Cruiser.
Like you I'm a 4 dr hardtop fan, besides my '56 98, I've had a '74 98, '76 Olds 98, '76 Olds Delta 88, and '75 Buick LeSabre Custom 4 dr hardtops, it's my favorite body style.
Sure - thanks Noel that's awesome, be glad to "recycle" them! Let me know the shipping and I"ll PayPal or send a check or whatever you'd like. My eMail for direct contact is: firesweep@verizon.net
thanks very much for your kind offer!
RogerA
