69 Newbie (hehe)
February 2nd, 2009, 12:15 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
69 Newbie (hehe)
Hi! 
I am from Austin, TX and I have a 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible. I am not sure if it is a "S" or "Supreme" because both badges are on the machine, or maybe it is an F-85 cutlass? Anyway it runs ok, I had all the gaskets changed out but now the engine is knocking so my mechanic said I need to find a crate motor. But I can't seem to find any Rocket 350 crate motors!
Also the convertible top is in good shape, but it bows down in the middle joint, so i have to get that fixed because right now the windows don't exactly roll up all the way. It's like the cover is too tight, I'm not sure. Anyway, I have to get that replaced as well, and worst case I was quoted $2500 to fix everything for the top. Ouch!
Anyway I hope to have it fixed up here soon.
I am from Austin, TX and I have a 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible. I am not sure if it is a "S" or "Supreme" because both badges are on the machine, or maybe it is an F-85 cutlass? Anyway it runs ok, I had all the gaskets changed out but now the engine is knocking so my mechanic said I need to find a crate motor. But I can't seem to find any Rocket 350 crate motors!
Also the convertible top is in good shape, but it bows down in the middle joint, so i have to get that fixed because right now the windows don't exactly roll up all the way. It's like the cover is too tight, I'm not sure. Anyway, I have to get that replaced as well, and worst case I was quoted $2500 to fix everything for the top. Ouch!
Anyway I hope to have it fixed up here soon.
February 2nd, 2009, 01:03 PM
#3
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,601
February 2nd, 2009, 01:28 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio
Posts: 422
Hi!
I am from Austin, TX and I have a 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible. I am not sure if it is a "S" or "Supreme" because both badges are on the machine, or maybe it is an F-85 cutlass? Anyway it runs ok, I had all the gaskets changed out but now the engine is knocking so my mechanic said I need to find a crate motor. But I can't seem to find any Rocket 350 crate motors!
Anyway I hope to have it fixed up here soon.
I am from Austin, TX and I have a 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible. I am not sure if it is a "S" or "Supreme" because both badges are on the machine, or maybe it is an F-85 cutlass? Anyway it runs ok, I had all the gaskets changed out but now the engine is knocking so my mechanic said I need to find a crate motor. But I can't seem to find any Rocket 350 crate motors!
Anyway I hope to have it fixed up here soon.
February 2nd, 2009, 01:34 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 79
Adjusting convt tops
If you look at the joints in the arms of your top you will see a number of adjustment screws. These are to put your top into the right position due to wear.
I would STRONGLY recommend you invest in a FACTORY manual for this car as it will have the instructions for adjusting the top. Beware: This is not for the faint of heart. You can do it, but it takes a lot of time. This sort of thing is almost an art.
As for replacing the top: I would ask folks here to recommend a shop in Austin that they have had good luck with, or maybe just contact a car club there in town whose members could recommend someone. This is not an easy job and it is easy to mess up. This could be as easy as going to a meet and asking someone, "Who did your top?"
You will also be faced with the decision on should you put on the original type or the new and improved type. I would go with the best, but you might want to keep it original. That will just have to be up to you.
I would STRONGLY recommend you invest in a FACTORY manual for this car as it will have the instructions for adjusting the top. Beware: This is not for the faint of heart. You can do it, but it takes a lot of time. This sort of thing is almost an art.
As for replacing the top: I would ask folks here to recommend a shop in Austin that they have had good luck with, or maybe just contact a car club there in town whose members could recommend someone. This is not an easy job and it is easy to mess up. This could be as easy as going to a meet and asking someone, "Who did your top?"
You will also be faced with the decision on should you put on the original type or the new and improved type. I would go with the best, but you might want to keep it original. That will just have to be up to you.
February 2nd, 2009, 01:39 PM
#7
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 17,646
If you look at the joints in the arms of your top you will see a number of adjustment screws. These are to put your top into the right position due to wear.
I would STRONGLY recommend you invest in a FACTORY manual for this car as it will have the instructions for adjusting the top. Beware: This is not for the faint of heart. You can do it, but it takes a lot of time. This sort of thing is almost an art.
I would STRONGLY recommend you invest in a FACTORY manual for this car as it will have the instructions for adjusting the top. Beware: This is not for the faint of heart. You can do it, but it takes a lot of time. This sort of thing is almost an art.
The funniest thing about them to me is why they only have one pin on the drivers side. How come not on both?
February 2nd, 2009, 02:01 PM
#8
Past Administrator
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rural Waxahachie Texas
Posts: 10,057
Welcome to our site and please-oh-please keep the Olds engine. Do not put a crate engine in it as that would probably be a GM corporate or a Chevy. Find yourself a nice Oldsmobile 350 engine, should be anywhere from a buck to three or four depending upon it's condition. Then you can rebuild it and keep driving your car. That is what quite a few people have done here. It works well. Parts are available just cost a little more than the small block bowtie engine and we can help you out at any point.
February 2nd, 2009, 02:31 PM
#9
Registered
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 4,430
Welcome. A manual is a must. I had the same problem with my '68 goat 'vert. It just needed an adjustment at the stop at the middle joint mechanism or it would sag and the doors wouldn't close with the windows up.
I don't know why they only have one hole for the pin? I find that one hard to align and get in sometimes let alone two the way those bodies flex.
A manual is a must. I had the same problem with my '68 goat 'vert. It just needed an adjustment at the stop at the middle joint mechanism or it would sag and the doors wouldn't close with the windows up. I don't know why they only have one hole for the pin? I find that one hard to align and get in sometimes let alone two the way those bodies flex.
February 2nd, 2009, 02:45 PM
#10
car guy
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 5,660
Welcome... You might contact 70post here on this site. Patton is a good dude and should be able to steer you right direction for a motor in your area.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...rs/70post.html
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...rs/70post.html
February 2nd, 2009, 03:08 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Hi!
Wow lots of responses!
As far as the manual goes, I got a CD with all the original manuals on them, a total of 4 of them including Fisher body manual. So I definitely have to go through them.
As for the Olds engine, I really do want to keep it however I've never rebuilt an engine before, so I'm not really sure how I would go about it. I though about buying either this guys 350 or this guys and taking both apart to create a frankenmotor that doesn't knock. But again, I've never rebuilt a motor, or done that much with cars as it is; I have mostly worked on street bikes, and even then not much engine work. Plus it is a daily driver, and I imagine an engine rebuild takes a little bit of time!
But I think you are all probably right and I should keep the engine, it sounds sweet if you tune out the knocking.
I did think about putting in a 455 but doing some research I saw I would need a new transmission as well. Scratch that for now.
I will look at the top tonight and see how one can adjust it. I was originally recommended Jim's Top Shop by a number of restoration shops, however Jim only does the cover, not the actual drop top mechanism. He recommended me Great Hill's Automotive, who said they can do it, but said it could be something simple as adjusting (a few bucks) to replacing the whole thing ($2500!). So I'm not sure what I'll do here. It sounds like it could be pretty complex so maybe I should make the long drive out to Great Hill's and have them do it.
One final thing (and I will have to take some pictures after work) is I think the previous owner may have fubared some things as it appears there are some random sheet metal screws in part of the top, possibly where that adjustment screw should be. Plus the weatherstripping looks like garbage, which I should replace also!
Thanks for the comments, I'll check back in soon enough. :P
Wow lots of responses!
As far as the manual goes, I got a CD with all the original manuals on them, a total of 4 of them including Fisher body manual. So I definitely have to go through them.
As for the Olds engine, I really do want to keep it however I've never rebuilt an engine before, so I'm not really sure how I would go about it. I though about buying either this guys 350 or this guys and taking both apart to create a frankenmotor that doesn't knock. But again, I've never rebuilt a motor, or done that much with cars as it is; I have mostly worked on street bikes, and even then not much engine work. Plus it is a daily driver, and I imagine an engine rebuild takes a little bit of time!
But I think you are all probably right and I should keep the engine, it sounds sweet if you tune out the knocking.
I did think about putting in a 455 but doing some research I saw I would need a new transmission as well. Scratch that for now.
I will look at the top tonight and see how one can adjust it. I was originally recommended Jim's Top Shop by a number of restoration shops, however Jim only does the cover, not the actual drop top mechanism. He recommended me Great Hill's Automotive, who said they can do it, but said it could be something simple as adjusting (a few bucks) to replacing the whole thing ($2500!). So I'm not sure what I'll do here. It sounds like it could be pretty complex so maybe I should make the long drive out to Great Hill's and have them do it.
One final thing (and I will have to take some pictures after work) is I think the previous owner may have fubared some things as it appears there are some random sheet metal screws in part of the top, possibly where that adjustment screw should be. Plus the weatherstripping looks like garbage, which I should replace also!
Thanks for the comments, I'll check back in soon enough. :P
Last edited by pheezy; February 2nd, 2009 at 03:11 PM.
February 2nd, 2009, 03:18 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Ouch, I was just quoted $4000 to rebuild the Rocket 350, because the knocking is getting worse, but that includes shipping to and from a shop in Minnesota. Also it would take 4 weeks, which seems fast! Is that about a standard/fair price?
February 2nd, 2009, 03:27 PM
#13
car guy
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 5,660
Thats way too much. PM Patton . He lives in Austin and should be able to steer you right with the top and the motor.
February 2nd, 2009, 03:27 PM
#14
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rathdrum, Idano
Posts: 9,127
Ask around and try to find a good local shop. A stock rebuild shouldn't cost 4k more like 2 to 2.5K. If you are building a performance engine then thats another story could cost 4K and up
February 2nd, 2009, 03:54 PM
#15
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio
Posts: 422
I may be wrong, but shouldnt he at least tear down the engine and examine everything before he can give a quote? Who knows, it might only need the crank turned down, new bearings,new oil pump, and new gaskets. I would think that that would be much cheaper than 4 grand.
February 3rd, 2009, 12:45 PM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 79
A friend of mine had a inline chevy 6 rebuilt at a shop in San Saba. I know that is over 100 miles from you, but the rebuild was several years ago and it is still running like new. The price was very fair as well. The shop is just as you come into town from the east and is across the street from a Chevron station.
By the way: If the knocking is the only problem it might just be crank bearings. I know these days just replacing the crank bearings is a poor way to go about things but you might look into it. At the beginning of a project like this money is always tight; you can always have a total rebuild done later if a bearing replacement is all you need. Besides, in 1969 just replacing the bearings was a very common thing.
Another solution is to find a doner car, such as a sedan, that has a good engine and put that one in. I don't know how much room you have to store cars in, but a good parts cars is never a bad thing to have. You could also recoupe some of the cost by selling off parts to others here.
If the top frame has been monkeyed with you might need to start looking for one of those as well. Some converts are just too far gone to rebuild and do wind in in wrecking yards. Put a notice on the board that you are looking for one and who knows who might spot one and tell you about it.
There are yards all around you that might have a top for this as I am sure other GM cars used this same top. City Wrecking, north of Waco, has just been converted to a Pick-N-Pull type of yard and they had a lot of old cars in there. You might also try 'Pops' which is out to the east of Austin.
North of Denton, on the west side of I-35, is a wrecking yard full of nothing but old cars, and north of Waco, on the east side of I-35, is a shop that works on older cars. They might have a frame for sale or perhaps know where you could get one.
If you do find a good frame it might also have better weather stripping which is sorta pricy all by itself.
By the way: If the knocking is the only problem it might just be crank bearings. I know these days just replacing the crank bearings is a poor way to go about things but you might look into it. At the beginning of a project like this money is always tight; you can always have a total rebuild done later if a bearing replacement is all you need. Besides, in 1969 just replacing the bearings was a very common thing.
Another solution is to find a doner car, such as a sedan, that has a good engine and put that one in. I don't know how much room you have to store cars in, but a good parts cars is never a bad thing to have. You could also recoupe some of the cost by selling off parts to others here.
If the top frame has been monkeyed with you might need to start looking for one of those as well. Some converts are just too far gone to rebuild and do wind in in wrecking yards. Put a notice on the board that you are looking for one and who knows who might spot one and tell you about it.
There are yards all around you that might have a top for this as I am sure other GM cars used this same top. City Wrecking, north of Waco, has just been converted to a Pick-N-Pull type of yard and they had a lot of old cars in there. You might also try 'Pops' which is out to the east of Austin.
North of Denton, on the west side of I-35, is a wrecking yard full of nothing but old cars, and north of Waco, on the east side of I-35, is a shop that works on older cars. They might have a frame for sale or perhaps know where you could get one.
If you do find a good frame it might also have better weather stripping which is sorta pricy all by itself.
February 3rd, 2009, 01:55 PM
#19
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Thanks for the great info olds98owner! I am going to give them a call. My boss (who was a mechanic long ago) also mentioned it might just be the crank bearings that need to be replaced, and laughed at the $4000 estimate. Good thing I haven't done it yet.
February 4th, 2009, 01:31 PM
#20
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,183
Welcome. Here's my first words of advice:
1)Avoid Great Hills Auto...they don't have any particular expertise in Olds motors and you will spend needless $$ at that place. This isn't to say they haven't been involved in working on Oldsmobiles (they have) but there is NO NEED to go there, they aren't Olds "specialists" and they are very liberal in what they charge.
2)No need to deal with Jim's either...the last couple people I know here that went over there were not too impressed with the work (a vinyl top and another guy looking to get a convert top done). I highly recommend J&H Auto Trim if you need interior and top work done. I know a number of people that have had RECENT work done there and the results were both great and the price was reasonable. They are S of Austin...I'll get you their number.
ENGINE: Is this a driver or can you afford to have the car "down" for a little while? As already mentioned you likely won't find an Olds "crate" motor and if you do it will be one of two things...1)an el cheapo quickie type rebuild from one of those engine exchange places or your local auto parts place OR 2) A fairly expensive "crate" motor offered by one of the few Olds specialists in the US.....more of a high performance deal and probably way more than you want for this application. Advice: FORGET THE "ORDER AN ENGINE" PATH...they all tell you they have what you need,yada, yada, yada.....that's why they call it "advertising"!
Couple of options, neither of which involves getting anything done IN AUSTIN (we have a lack of decent machine shops here).
1)Go to a machine shop in San Antonio I know of that has rebuilt a large number of Olds motors and get a good basic rebuild of YOUR MOTOR. You can add some "juicy" stuff as you see fit...maybe a slightly better cam, intake, etc (BE CAREFUL...THIS IS HOW IT STARTS!).
2)Talk with a buddy of mine in San Antonio...he uses the same machine shop but acts as sort of a "general contractor"--provides this machine shop the specs, checks everything over, degrees the new cam, assembles the motor, etc. Typically doesn't charge an arm and a leg for this work and he REALLY KNOWS Oldsmobile motors..probably worth having him in the loop for peace of mind, advice on the practicality/actual usefulness of any upgrades you have in mind (he actually will work as a sort of "dampener' for you and may keep you from wasting $ on stuff you really don't need....he's pragmatic). The catch is how full his plate is right now...I can check.
PM me if you'd like to pursue either of these options. We just installed a rebuild he oversaw of the original motor in another friends '70 W-31 and it turned out very well.
If you get anything from this thread it should be my advice in the first two paragraphs above....your wallet will also thank you.
In terms of $$----if you are going to rebuild an 350 Olds and want a professionally done job with the RIGHT parts (nothing exotic but not the cheapest stuff out there either) you should expect to spend at least $2500-3000 I would think (I'm speaking generally now as we don't know what all might be wrong with your motor). The W31 motor I mention was substantially more $$ but it also involved some fairly exotic custom pistons and some other work you probably wouldn't need to have a good strong AND reliable build.
Other things that will affect cost---how much YOU can do. Who's going to pull the motor?, tear it down? who's going to install it?, who's going to break in the cam?, etc, etc. If you are looking for a "turnkey" deal (ie drop off the car, write a check(s), and pick it up ready to go) then, yes, the bill would be SUBSTANTIALLY MORE...there's A LOT of work involved in all the "peripheral" stuff.
Edit: I also have dealt with a machine shop in Georgetown, TX and the guy that is running the place (sole employee of the owner) seems to be a decent person. Not an "Olds specialist" but seems capable and is also levelheaded (ie would keep you from spending $$ on useless stuff or things that you don't really need). I don't have the same amount of experience with this guy but the things I have had done (as well as things we had done at a shop where I work sometimes) have been done right and for reasonable $$$. Pure machine shop...not a repair place that's going to remove the motor, do the install, etc. We can discuss other places you may have run across here in Austin and I'll give you my opinion.
Let me know.
1)Avoid Great Hills Auto...they don't have any particular expertise in Olds motors and you will spend needless $$ at that place. This isn't to say they haven't been involved in working on Oldsmobiles (they have) but there is NO NEED to go there, they aren't Olds "specialists" and they are very liberal in what they charge.
2)No need to deal with Jim's either...the last couple people I know here that went over there were not too impressed with the work (a vinyl top and another guy looking to get a convert top done). I highly recommend J&H Auto Trim if you need interior and top work done. I know a number of people that have had RECENT work done there and the results were both great and the price was reasonable. They are S of Austin...I'll get you their number.
ENGINE: Is this a driver or can you afford to have the car "down" for a little while? As already mentioned you likely won't find an Olds "crate" motor and if you do it will be one of two things...1)an el cheapo quickie type rebuild from one of those engine exchange places or your local auto parts place OR 2) A fairly expensive "crate" motor offered by one of the few Olds specialists in the US.....more of a high performance deal and probably way more than you want for this application. Advice: FORGET THE "ORDER AN ENGINE" PATH...they all tell you they have what you need,yada, yada, yada.....that's why they call it "advertising"!
Couple of options, neither of which involves getting anything done IN AUSTIN (we have a lack of decent machine shops here).
1)Go to a machine shop in San Antonio I know of that has rebuilt a large number of Olds motors and get a good basic rebuild of YOUR MOTOR. You can add some "juicy" stuff as you see fit...maybe a slightly better cam, intake, etc (BE CAREFUL...THIS IS HOW IT STARTS!).
2)Talk with a buddy of mine in San Antonio...he uses the same machine shop but acts as sort of a "general contractor"--provides this machine shop the specs, checks everything over, degrees the new cam, assembles the motor, etc. Typically doesn't charge an arm and a leg for this work and he REALLY KNOWS Oldsmobile motors..probably worth having him in the loop for peace of mind, advice on the practicality/actual usefulness of any upgrades you have in mind (he actually will work as a sort of "dampener' for you and may keep you from wasting $ on stuff you really don't need....he's pragmatic). The catch is how full his plate is right now...I can check.
PM me if you'd like to pursue either of these options. We just installed a rebuild he oversaw of the original motor in another friends '70 W-31 and it turned out very well.
If you get anything from this thread it should be my advice in the first two paragraphs above....your wallet will also thank you.
In terms of $$----if you are going to rebuild an 350 Olds and want a professionally done job with the RIGHT parts (nothing exotic but not the cheapest stuff out there either) you should expect to spend at least $2500-3000 I would think (I'm speaking generally now as we don't know what all might be wrong with your motor). The W31 motor I mention was substantially more $$ but it also involved some fairly exotic custom pistons and some other work you probably wouldn't need to have a good strong AND reliable build.
Other things that will affect cost---how much YOU can do. Who's going to pull the motor?, tear it down? who's going to install it?, who's going to break in the cam?, etc, etc. If you are looking for a "turnkey" deal (ie drop off the car, write a check(s), and pick it up ready to go) then, yes, the bill would be SUBSTANTIALLY MORE...there's A LOT of work involved in all the "peripheral" stuff.
Edit: I also have dealt with a machine shop in Georgetown, TX and the guy that is running the place (sole employee of the owner) seems to be a decent person. Not an "Olds specialist" but seems capable and is also levelheaded (ie would keep you from spending $$ on useless stuff or things that you don't really need). I don't have the same amount of experience with this guy but the things I have had done (as well as things we had done at a shop where I work sometimes) have been done right and for reasonable $$$. Pure machine shop...not a repair place that's going to remove the motor, do the install, etc. We can discuss other places you may have run across here in Austin and I'll give you my opinion.
Let me know.
Last edited by 70Post; February 4th, 2009 at 02:15 PM.
February 4th, 2009, 03:17 PM
#21
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 16,088
Welcome to the site. Definitely a cool car. I just rebuilt a 455 and spent about $4000 with performance parts, machine work, and everything. You can get a stock rebuild for considerably less. Keep us posted.
February 5th, 2009, 09:01 AM
#22
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Thanks for the info 70Post.
I was only considering Great Hills for the convertible top because they were the only ones recommended to me, and I asked a number of shops around town.
This sounds great, I will PM you my email address and hopefully get their number! Thanks!
ENGINE:
So after more research and talking with my mechanic, it turns out that $4000 quote is from a company called "American Engine Assembly," who work through Jasper Engine. From what I have searched, the general consensus is that these remanufactured engines (not rebuilt) are pretty decent. That quote includes:
I would like it rebuilt very well, with good quality parts and possibilities to upgrade it down the road to 350+ HP or so, but that doesn't have to be now. I just want the option; a good "base" would be fine for now.
As far as what I can do, well, I don't really have the tools, or a truck, or crane, or the garage room in my rental house to pull the motor myself, plus I wouldn't know where to start. So I guess I *could* be down for a little bit, but it is a daily driver right now so I can't really afford a rental car for more than a month or two. Well I mean, I could, but then that is less beer money.
Can I just get some of these cheap cranes from Harbor Freight, rent a truck and drive it down there? How long would a pro rebuild like that take? What kind of warranty does it have?
The Jasper engine is looking pretty good to me right now, and I can always add juicy stuff later. I do want to know what kind of HP I would expect to see. Just out of curiousity's sake.
Anyway, sorry for rambling on and thanks for all the info!
1)Avoid Great Hills Auto...they don't have any particular expertise in Olds motors and you will spend needless $$ at that place. This isn't to say they haven't been involved in working on Oldsmobiles (they have) but there is NO NEED to go there, they aren't Olds "specialists" and they are very liberal in what they charge.
2)No need to deal with Jim's either...the last couple people I know here that went over there were not too impressed with the work (a vinyl top and another guy looking to get a convert top done). I highly recommend J&H Auto Trim if you need interior and top work done. I know a number of people that have had RECENT work done there and the results were both great and the price was reasonable. They are S of Austin...I'll get you their number.
ENGINE:
So after more research and talking with my mechanic, it turns out that $4000 quote is from a company called "American Engine Assembly," who work through Jasper Engine. From what I have searched, the general consensus is that these remanufactured engines (not rebuilt) are pretty decent. That quote includes:
- 5 weeks downtime
- They come and take out the engine, and transport it.
- Remanufacture
- Deliver it and install it
- 3 year/100,000 mile warranty
I would like it rebuilt very well, with good quality parts and possibilities to upgrade it down the road to 350+ HP or so, but that doesn't have to be now. I just want the option; a good "base" would be fine for now.
As far as what I can do, well, I don't really have the tools, or a truck, or crane, or the garage room in my rental house to pull the motor myself, plus I wouldn't know where to start. So I guess I *could* be down for a little bit, but it is a daily driver right now so I can't really afford a rental car for more than a month or two. Well I mean, I could, but then that is less beer money.
Can I just get some of these cheap cranes from Harbor Freight, rent a truck and drive it down there? How long would a pro rebuild like that take? What kind of warranty does it have?
The Jasper engine is looking pretty good to me right now, and I can always add juicy stuff later. I do want to know what kind of HP I would expect to see. Just out of curiousity's sake.
Anyway, sorry for rambling on and thanks for all the info!
February 5th, 2009, 10:05 AM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Overton NV
Posts: 1,728
an engine hoist can be gotten for under 2 bills, other than that nothing more exotic than basic hand tools are "required" to get an engine out of the car. It would be nice to have the compresser, impacts and what not. But on a budget get the hoist and a buddy and pull the bugger on a weekend, shipp it out to a reputable shop. You will get frustrated, and probably make a few mistakes, but they will be noticeable, fixable, and you will come out more knowledgeable. It will save you bundles of money. Go for it man, it's the only way to learn. P.S. nice ride and good luck.
February 5th, 2009, 11:20 AM
#25
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 17,646
February 5th, 2009, 12:15 PM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rathdrum, Idano
Posts: 9,127
Its time to jump in and learn. You can rent engine hoists from any good rental company. Take lots of pictures before and during the engine removal so you know how to put it back in. save bolts, nuts, etc from each location and put in zip lock bags with a note stating what the bolts and nuts are for. lable cables and wire with duct tape and a permanent marker. We have all been through this. It's great satisfaction when you have completed the re-install and start the enging. The local machine shop is always the way to go (just my opinion. Besides you have a large group of people to support you now that you didn't have before. Good luck and keep asking those questions
February 5th, 2009, 08:58 PM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,183
I'll PM the guy in San Antonio (all I have is his old work cellphone number and he changed jobs awhile back) and then PM you after I hear from him.
It looks like the Jasper deal has a lot of the $ priced in for the convenience factor (ie they pull, they take it, they re-instal + the warranty). Other than that you are very likely getting a very basic rebuild. Do they tell you what brand of bearings (and type) they are using? Pistons (same deal), etc, etc. Cam degreed?----I seriously doubt it...couple that with the not-so-accurate timing chain sets running around out there and it's a recipe for having a car that never seems to "run like it should" especially after you start throwing a bunch of upgrades on it later that otherwise should improve things. That said...they are throwing a serious warranty behind it so it's likely a decent, basic type rebuild.
Down the road, however, you aren't going to see much, if any, improvement in performance without tearing right back into the motor to put a decent cam in it (and degree the cam when it's installed). You can upgrade it to death with an intake, carb, dual exhaust, ignition, headers, etc. but whatever cam they stuff in it will always be a HUGE LIMITING FACTOR to how it performs. 350 hp??....good luck....that'll take some head porting, bigger valves and probably way more cam than your combination is set up for (auto trans, power brakes?, what rear gears) at a minimum and porting work is not inexpensive.
That's where this "game" can get you.....you have to put together the right COMBINATION of parts and like the old saying goes.."the foot bone's connected to the ankle bone, the ankle bone's connected to the shin bone, etc"..change one thing and it depends on/ or affects another thing and that thing must be changed..and so on.
I suspect you won't get anything remotely close to this, warranty-wise, from the San Antonio people I mention.
You are probably looking at a few months (3-6) using the San Antonio alternative. You'll need a truck to get an engine hoist, a truck to deliver and pick up the motor, etc.....so maybe the Jasper deal is the way to go. That way you can sit back and just drink beer while someone else does all the work.
It looks like the Jasper deal has a lot of the $ priced in for the convenience factor (ie they pull, they take it, they re-instal + the warranty). Other than that you are very likely getting a very basic rebuild. Do they tell you what brand of bearings (and type) they are using? Pistons (same deal), etc, etc. Cam degreed?----I seriously doubt it...couple that with the not-so-accurate timing chain sets running around out there and it's a recipe for having a car that never seems to "run like it should" especially after you start throwing a bunch of upgrades on it later that otherwise should improve things. That said...they are throwing a serious warranty behind it so it's likely a decent, basic type rebuild.
Down the road, however, you aren't going to see much, if any, improvement in performance without tearing right back into the motor to put a decent cam in it (and degree the cam when it's installed). You can upgrade it to death with an intake, carb, dual exhaust, ignition, headers, etc. but whatever cam they stuff in it will always be a HUGE LIMITING FACTOR to how it performs. 350 hp??....good luck....that'll take some head porting, bigger valves and probably way more cam than your combination is set up for (auto trans, power brakes?, what rear gears) at a minimum and porting work is not inexpensive.
That's where this "game" can get you.....you have to put together the right COMBINATION of parts and like the old saying goes.."the foot bone's connected to the ankle bone, the ankle bone's connected to the shin bone, etc"..change one thing and it depends on/ or affects another thing and that thing must be changed..and so on.
I suspect you won't get anything remotely close to this, warranty-wise, from the San Antonio people I mention.
You are probably looking at a few months (3-6) using the San Antonio alternative. You'll need a truck to get an engine hoist, a truck to deliver and pick up the motor, etc.....so maybe the Jasper deal is the way to go. That way you can sit back and just drink beer while someone else does all the work
.
Last edited by 70Post; February 5th, 2009 at 09:03 PM.
February 5th, 2009, 10:20 PM
#29
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Hi peeps, thanks again for answering my lame questions.
This sounds pretty close to what I want to do, I'd rather only rebuild it once, know what I mean? As far as my combination, I have a stock TH350, front power disc brakes (I think, will have to double check). I don't know what the rear differential is, I'll have to check tomorrow when I get it back. 
As far as power goes, I was reading this page and got this information:
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofe350.htm
So yeah, now I just need to get those parts. I think this might work, not too sure yet.
Eh, I'm rambling now, it's late and I'll have to do some more research tomrrow. Thanks again for taking the time to reply everybody!
Down the road, however, you aren't going to see much, if any, improvement in performance without tearing right back into the motor to put a decent cam in it (and degree the cam when it's installed). You can upgrade it to death with an intake, carb, dual exhaust, ignition, headers, etc. but whatever cam they stuff in it will always be a HUGE LIMITING FACTOR to how it performs. 350 hp??....good luck....that'll take some head porting, bigger valves and probably way more cam than your combination is set up for (auto trans, power brakes?, what rear gears) at a minimum and porting work is not inexpensive.
As far as power goes, I was reading this page and got this information:
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofe350.htm
A set of mildly-ported 2.00"/1.62" early small-chamber heads will let you spin into the higher RPM range. The only non-factory part you may be interested in is an aftermarket cam and intake, and a high-volume oil pump. If Edelbrock can get 370hp from such a combination, where only the intake and exhaust are non-stock, then you certainly can, and it will bolt to your existing transmission, and the holes for the frame mounts are already drilled, and it will look completely stock, and it will go strong for 200,000 miles.
Eh, I'm rambling now, it's late and I'll have to do some more research tomrrow. Thanks again for taking the time to reply everybody!
Car ID
February 6th, 2009, 09:31 AM
#31
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Which is funny because the VIN on my engine say's it's an F85.
So, is the engine still worth rebuilding?
February 9th, 2009, 11:05 AM
#36
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Well the issues continue to crop up; all my leads on the convertible top getting fixed didn't pan out, time to break out the manual. And now the right front end appears to be going out, it sounds like metal on metal popping, I don't know if its the shocks or the ball joints or what yet. Scary to drive to say the least!
February 9th, 2009, 01:09 PM
#37
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,052
Sounds like things are piling up, which happens on old cars that haven't been restored. Having just torn down my 442, I can tell you two things: a) it's not difficult to pull an engine, and b) working on the front end is immensely easier once the front end of the car is off and the engine is out.
Personally, as stated, unless this car is a "driver", in my opinion, there's no point in pulling an engine, buying an entire different engine putting that one in, then rebuilding the engine from the car. Does the VIN# on the current engine match the VIN# on the car? If not, then honestly, you can do what you want in that case. Find a 455 and have that rebuilt, etc. If you do buy that '76 engine, I would certainly make sure it was rebuilt by a reputable builder and that it was NOT built to '76 specs. No offense to '76 owners, but by then, regulations had essentially strangled the life out of engines.
In any event, these are things to consider. First, make sure the VIN# on the block does or doesn't match your car's VIN. Then you can move on from there.
Personally, as stated, unless this car is a "driver", in my opinion, there's no point in pulling an engine, buying an entire different engine putting that one in, then rebuilding the engine from the car. Does the VIN# on the current engine match the VIN# on the car? If not, then honestly, you can do what you want in that case. Find a 455 and have that rebuilt, etc. If you do buy that '76 engine, I would certainly make sure it was rebuilt by a reputable builder and that it was NOT built to '76 specs. No offense to '76 owners, but by then, regulations had essentially strangled the life out of engines.
In any event, these are things to consider. First, make sure the VIN# on the block does or doesn't match your car's VIN. Then you can move on from there.
February 9th, 2009, 01:31 PM
#38
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,601
February 9th, 2009, 05:44 PM
#39
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 23
Sounds like things are piling up, which happens on old cars that haven't been restored. Having just torn down my 442, I can tell you two things: a) it's not difficult to pull an engine, and b) working on the front end is immensely easier once the front end of the car is off and the engine is out.
Personally, as stated, unless this car is a "driver", in my opinion, there's no point in pulling an engine, buying an entire different engine putting that one in, then rebuilding the engine from the car. Does the VIN# on the current engine match the VIN# on the car? If not, then honestly, you can do what you want in that case. Find a 455 and have that rebuilt, etc. If you do buy that '76 engine, I would certainly make sure it was rebuilt by a reputable builder and that it was NOT built to '76 specs. No offense to '76 owners, but by then, regulations had essentially strangled the life out of engines.
In any event, these are things to consider. First, make sure the VIN# on the block does or doesn't match your car's VIN. Then you can move on from there.
Personally, as stated, unless this car is a "driver", in my opinion, there's no point in pulling an engine, buying an entire different engine putting that one in, then rebuilding the engine from the car. Does the VIN# on the current engine match the VIN# on the car? If not, then honestly, you can do what you want in that case. Find a 455 and have that rebuilt, etc. If you do buy that '76 engine, I would certainly make sure it was rebuilt by a reputable builder and that it was NOT built to '76 specs. No offense to '76 owners, but by then, regulations had essentially strangled the life out of engines.
In any event, these are things to consider. First, make sure the VIN# on the block does or doesn't match your car's VIN. Then you can move on from there.
All Olds engine castings (block, heads, intake, exhaust manifolds) have an identifying letter (for big blocks) or number (for small blocks) in addition to the casting number. All 1968-69 Olds 350 motors used heads with the number 5 as this identifier. The "5" (or other ID number) is located adjacent to the no. 1 and no. 8 spark plugs. There is also a six digit casting number located above the two center exhaust ports. For the no. 5 head, this would be 397742.
So I know the one in the front is the casting number, and the number on the right is actually on the bottom end of the engine, but I don't know what it is. The top middle number (398583) is actually behind the carb, but I also don't know what it is. In any event, none of them match the VIN, but that is 13 characters. But they still don't match if I take the last 6 digits of the VIN on the dash.
February 10th, 2009, 05:00 AM
#40
Past Administrator
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rural Waxahachie Texas
Posts: 10,057
About that sound of metal on metal popping in the front end someplace. If you can get the front end up on jackstands and do a thorough inspection you may be able to localize the culprit but in any event you are going to have to correct it. It could be a dry ball joint or any one of the other front end joints but probably not a shock, unless it is loose.
