Need help to what my next step will be.

My 1970 Cutlass Supreme Convertible hhas a lean on the rear left side.

I have approx. 30mm difference left to right side. Measured on the rim to the quater panel.

I have had the rear coil springs of the car and had them tested in a hydraulic press and they perform evenly. I mounted them back on the car and switched sides, left to right and right to left. The "pigtail" is pointed outwards. I still have a lean.
I retorqued all the bolts / control arms with the weight of the car on the ground.

I turned my attetion to the front end and found that I have more clearance on the right front. I think this could be the culprit, but what is the cause of this?

In the near future I will be lowering the front by cutting 1 turn of each coil spring, but I want to find the problem first. How would you atttack this?

Thanks.

 

I assume you do not have air shocks, external springs on the shocks or spacers in/under any of the 4 springs.

Here are some checks to make. Some are obvious, but let's cover the bases:
1) Be sure the rear tires are the same size and the front tires are the same size.
2) Be sure the tires have equal air pressure, front and rear.
3) Bounce the rear of the car to be sure one of the shocks is not frozen.
4) Check the following dimensions, both sides, and report back:
...1. rear bumper-to-ground
...2. rear frame tip to ground
...3. frame-to-ground at the front of the rear wheel well
...4. frame-to-ground at the front tip
...5. front fender at center of wheel well to ground
5) Check the condition of the body mounts, especially in the rear.


A picture or two might help.

 

We´re at the beach house on easter vacation, so I´ll have to wait until I am back next weekend.
I can support you with some information. You´re correct on my shock setup.

ad 1: Dimensions are the same on the rear and front both sides.
ad 2: Tires pressure is also OK, though it does not matter since I do not measure to the ground but the bottom of the rim, this would no be affected even though it has a flat tire.
ad: 3 It has been bounced to the point where I thought I almost ripped the quater panel of the car
ad 4: Have to be back on this.

Any comments on the front end as to my first post?

Thanks

 

Your front springs are much denser than your rear springs, so if one of those is broken/sagging, it could affect the rear suspension. Hell, you car could be like mine, with a crooked frame.

 

When I first bought my car the passenger side was lower than the driver side. I noticed when I put new tires on it. The gap between the tire and fender was about an inch lower on the passenger side. After I replaced all the body mounts the lean was gone and the car sits straight now.

 

I would measure the frame it could be twisted

 

The measurements I requested will tell us if the frame is twisted. We'll know more next weekend, I suppose.

 

Whoa. The bumpers are level, but the rim-to-quarter panel is off an inch? Have the quarters ever been replaced? Also, be sure to check the condition of the body mount areas as stated in 5). It's possible something has punched through, dropping the quarter.

 

Sorry, not necessarily true on the tire pressures. It can have an effect by allowing one side of the axle (i.e., rim) to lower itself more than the rest of the car, especially if it is completely flat. Also, are the tires the same brand on both sides? Is the tire really flat, or are you speaking theoretically?

 

I assume you mean vertical clearance. That would make sense...down in the left rear, up in the right front. More things will cause a corner of the car to be down rather than up, so I think your problem is in the left rear. It's that gravity thing...


We'll know more when you get home. Enjoy Easter and the beach house! Wow!

 

I really do not hope that it has a twisted frame but I will do some measurements and get back here with them.



Good point that needs to be checked out, thanks.



I will locate a place where the ground is level enough to give an accurate measurement.



I didn´t say the bumpers where level. 1 inch difference from the rim up till the quater panel. Body mounts, got it


I do not agree on this. A flat tire will not affect the cars weight on the springs. And therefore the rims will be the same distance from the quater panels (unless you have som kind of bigfoot tire that would give the car a massive lean over that flat tire. Even though... I have same brand make and model on all 4 corners and pressure is the same.



I can see your point on the gravity subject Thanks

 

Body mounts bad between the frame and body?

 

Just a thought, how old are the shocks?
If one side has a dead one it could cause
the problem as well. You may check. There
may or may not be signs of oil on the exterior
of one of them, like it leaked down or blew a seal.

 

Should be good but def. worth a closer inspection.

 

I'll bet you a krone to a kogt torsk! (That's poached cod, for our American friends.) As you know, the body is not directly connected to the suspension, so the body does not maintain a constant relationship to the suspension. Here is the extreme case: Jack up the car by the center of the rear axle. Then put one jackstand near the right tire. Release the jack and the left side of the axle drops away from the body. When you have a flat tire the same principle applies, but to a lesser degree. You get mostly body drop, but you also get expansion of the coil spring and thus separation between the body and the "rim" (i.e., the suspension).

 

I am going through a similar issue, passenger front is high, driver rear is low. I have been playing with this for a while, and my experiences may help you determine what is going on with your car.
The first thing I did was check the seating of the front and rear springs.
I have measured my clearances according to the shop manual which uses the rocker (body). I have also measured clearances to the frame members.
If there is no differences side to side on the frame, then your problem will be body mounts.
I have differences side to side on the frame, and they are the same as measured on the rocker, so I know my mounts are ok.
I have also put the front end up on stands of exactly the same height and measured clearances on the front clip, and rear rocker and rear frame.
With car up on stands in the front, my "lean", or clearance difference in the rear went away. This tells me that my problem is with the front. The clearances on the front clip were the same side to side, which is good.
I changed out my springs with new ones. I did not have a place to measure the spring rates, but when I put the new ones in I still got the same lean. So I do not think my problem is the springs. I will get the old springs measured next month to make sure.
I have narrowed it down to either a defect in the front top spring seat on one side or the other, or a defect in a spring seat of my reproduction lower control arm.
My next task is to remove both front springs and measure the clearances on the front clip and top spring seats. There should be no differences in either side to side.
If the spring seat clearances are not the same then I do not know what to do.
If they are ok then I will get myself some original control arms and install them.

 

Cut a coil or less (depending on amount of sag driver side) from the passenger side front spring.

 

Remember if you cut a bit off the spring it will change its spring rate, making it stiffer. I would not recommend having different-rated springs side to side.
It would be better to put a spacer under the driver side spring and bring that side up.

 

The front springs have 10-12 coils. I lean toward twelve but I can't remember. If one coil is removed and there are 10 then the coil will be 1/10 stiffer then the stock coil. The difference will be nothing.

 

An update:

Finally got back a few days ago but had to attend to our garden that was in need of help and support.
Did some measuring on the Cutlass, I didn´t bring the numbers in from the garage, but...
All frame measurements are off by almost the same margin as the body to rim measurements = the entire care has a lean towards the left.
The only body mount / bushing I stumbled uppon ( in front of left rear wheel ) looked OK and not flattened.
So I am leaning towards ( no pun inteded ) it being a suspension issue in the right front.
I might be mistaken so please share your thoughts.

Thanks

 

I would say that would be good news if it were suspension and not a bent frame. If it were mine I'd jack it up in the center of the rear end and measure the front on both sides, then jack it up in the center under the engine and measure the rear on both sides. Hopefully that would isolate the problem to either the front or the rear.


How was the beach?

 

The beach was nice and relaxing, thanks

I did jack up the front and put it on stands and measured the rear, it was only 9-10 mm off from the ground up to the frame. I think that is within reasonable measures. And NO visible lean anymore.

Will try to jack up the rear too.

 

Body mount or body sagging over the mount-s ie rusted.Nick

 

This was in pretty good shape, clearence between body and frame was ½" - 3/4" and this is the "leaning" side.

 

I hate to be a stickler, but don't put it on stands. Just jack it up in the middle, then measure the other end. That should tell you which end has the problem.


Aside: Have you ever heard of a tour guide in Denmark named Caspar Moeller? I'm not sure if he lived in Copenhagen or elsewhere, but I met him in Corfu (Greece) when I was in the Navy. I was amazed that he spoke 6 languages! He should be rich and famous by now...

 

I´ll give it a shot on the center jacking point. Easy on the rear, but where in the front? Don´t want to be lifting under motor.

Casper Møller is a common name and though we are only 5 million people in this little old contry of ours we do not every one another and what I know of we no famous person by that name. What should he be famous for? Surely not for being a tour guide nor speak 6 languages...? Most here that went to school and college speak at least 3 or 4 languages.

 

Jack it up in the center of the crossmember that the engine mounts bolt to. This is common practice.

 

I did not read all of the posts so i may be saying something that was already covered. You said the passenger front was higher than the drivers front. A lot of times front coil springs are marked and there is a drivers side coil spring, the front coil springs could possibly be on the wrong side.