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Norm - Thanks! I did call the Assessor's Office. On the Assessor's Office website's Home Page it specifically claims that new valuations are done annually. The person I spoke to in the Assessor's Office swore that an updated valuation of my vehicles (5) was done and that it was just a coincidence that the total valuation was exactly the same as last year. Then when I pointed out that the new valuations for each individual vehicle were also exactly the same as last year, she again claimed that it was just a coindence. Way too much of a coincidence in my opinion, but I don't know how I could ever prove it. The only thing I can think of is to file a complaint with the State AG's Office letting them know what I've found and requesting an investigation?
The lady at the Assessor's Office also said they had had several complaints from property owners who were complaining their valuations had actually gone up, even though their list of vehicles was the same as last year. This was being explained as being due to the values of used vehicles going up incredibly during the last year due to inflation. OK, I can buy that. What I can't buy or believe, is that the value of each of my 5 vehiclea is exactly the same as last year. What do you think???
One thing I never understood, fully, back home we had to buy stickers for the car, City Stickers we called them. This was above and beyond the license plates and insurance. It was just the city's way of getting more of your money. For awhile Mom lived in a modular. This is the house with two halves going down the highway. They are permanently secured to a concrete slab and all the undercarriage used for transport is taken off. Yet, these types of houses are still required to have a city sticker because once upon a time someone considered them vehicles.
Mike - Anything for them to squeeze a buck out of folks! Total BS!
That lady is fine for meat on her bones. No need to get heavier.
Poured a stiff one and listened to a SACD of a Pink Floyd album that arrived in the mail yesterday. Super Audio CD is a format that never really took off, but, due to multi layer tech, similar to DVDs and such, a SACD can give you more than stereo CD. It's not advertised as such, it's usually just "another mix" another release, but it is multi-channel supportive. So, get an universal disc player that still has 8 channel analog outs, downmix to 5.1, shut off the sub and the center, and you have 4 analog outs you can now plug into a 50 year old 4 channel tape in jack setup on a quad preamp. Ended up with support instruments, backing vocals, and sound effects in different spots than normal. I have a LED audio channel visualizer that is neat to show things as well.
Crap, was hoping the weather man would be wrong, but I woke up to the ground covered in snow again. Not as much as the last one, maybe an inch or two at most. Hopefully most will be gone by this afternoon.
There's another weather disturbance on the way - it's currently blowing through the Southwest .
Chris, I have never heard of personal property tax. That is crazy!! Is it a Missouri thing? Mike I have heard of the tag fees on "Mobile Homes" I think they also have it in Florida- That is also crazy! But every time we sell a car in Michigan the buyer pays 6% sales tax on the price... oh yeah that also is crazy! It just goes to show that if something becomes accepted or common place it continues to be allowed... John, That special CD you talk about sounds really interesting. I have never heard of it. Was the album "Dark Side of the Moon"? I still every once in a while hear "Money" played on a different radio someplace and hear something I've never heard before (the sayings, etc)
Chris, I have never heard of personal property tax. That is crazy!! Is it a Missouri thing?
Arizona has it on vehicles and is tied to the registration. There is a tax on the price of a base vehicle that is depreciated each year. If you are lucky enough to have bought a top trim level vehicle with every option available that also had a cheapo stripped down base model, then your tax is based on the cheapo model. If you bought a Ferrari then you're SOL.
Chris, I have never heard of personal property tax. That is crazy!! Is it a Missouri thing?
Greg - It's not just a Missouri thing. Mike said they have something like it in Georgia, and I know other States have it, I'm just not sure which ones. I will mention our Real Estate taxes here are about half of what your's are up there in Michigan for equal value property. Just goes to show you the States will utilize whatever tax collection system/processes they feel they need to get the money needed to run the State. They might get ya coming, or might get ya going, and maybe both, but rest assured, they're gonna get ya!
Arizona has it on vehicles and is tied to the registration. There is a tax on the price of a base vehicle that is depreciated each year. If you are lucky enough to have bought a top trim level vehicle with every option available that also had a cheapo stripped down base model, then your tax is based on the cheapo model. If you bought a Ferrari then you're SOL.
Kenneth - Ours are tied to the Registration also in that if you are not up to date on payment, you can't renew your registration. Do you also have other things like boats, trailers, and ATV's taxed like we do? Luckily, my 4-4-2 is taxed like it is a 1967 Cutlass beater, and not as a restored vehicle, I'm sure it's because they have no easy method of putting a value on the car. As such, it's taxed at the minimum value, which is essentially almost nothing.
Kenneth - Ours are tied to the Registration also in that if you are not up to date on payment, you can't renew your registration. Do you also have other things like boats, trailers, and ATV's taxed like we do? Luckily, my 4-4-2 is taxed like it is a 1967 Cutlass beater, and not as a restored vehicle, I'm sure it's because they have no easy method of putting a value on the car. As such, it's taxed at the minimum value, which is essentially almost nothing.
Dunno about boats and other toys. I have a utility trailer that has lifetime registration, so no tax assessed on it. As for the Cutlass, it depreciated to the minimum tax amount of $10 a LONG, LONG time ago.
Our tax did the same thing, went down to just a couple bucks. A few years ago they started charging "sales tax" on used cars. They were missing out on the tax when people bought from private parties. You paid it at your first registration. But after that you didn't owe anything ever again except the annual registration fee.
Thanks Jamesbo that's always my favorite. I'll watch it at work once in a while and one time someone came up and said, there's no way you could move like that. I said I don't have to, she does it for me.
Our tax did the same thing, went down to just a couple bucks. A few years ago they started charging "sales tax" on used cars. They were missing out on the tax when people bought from private parties. You paid it at your first registration. But after that you didn't owe anything ever again except the annual registration fee.
Mike - So, what I'm reading here is you don't have an annual tax (Personal Property Tax) on your used vehicles, is that correct? We've always had to pay an initial "sales tax" here on any vehicle, new or used. Then in addition, we are taxed annually on each vehicle in our possession as of 1 January of each year.
We pay a sales tax on any vehicle purchased or any piece of personal property purchased either retail, wholesale or personal party; and, each time a piece of personal property is sold the purchaser must pay a sales tax. Therefore, I always provide a typed Bill Of Sale to anyone who purchases a piece of personal property from me. Examples: The 40' Toy Hauler I sold (used) on Craigs List for $42000 I wrote a Bill Of Sale receipt for $4200. The C-Dory I sold (used) on Craigs List for $67500 I wrote a Bill Of Sale receipt for $6750. There "are" ways to circumvent the Tax Collector. Should they (never have) inquire it was an honest mistake of incorrectly identifying the numbers. F* em. Yes, I have asked others do the same for me when making purchases. In fact, they simply write-up a Bill Of Sale receipt and let me fill in the numbers.
We pay a sales tax on any vehicle purchased or any piece of personal property purchased either retail, wholesale or personal party; and, each time a piece of personal property is sold the purchaser must pay a sales tax. Therefore, I always provide a typed Bill Of Sale to anyone who purchases a piece of personal property from me. Examples: The 40' Toy Hauler I sold (used) on Craigs List for $42000 I wrote a Bill Of Sale receipt for $4200. The C-Dory I sold (used) on Craigs List for $67500 I wrote a Bill Of Sale receipt for $6750. There "are" ways to circumvent the Tax Collector. Should they (never have) inquire it was an honest mistake of incorrectly identifying the numbers. F* em. Yes, I have asked others do the same for me when making purchases. In fact, they simply write-up a Bill Of Sale receipt and let me fill in the numbers.
Ya, more than one way to skin a tax collector, you sly dog! Honestly (literally), I was always too paranoid to succumb to such strategies for fear of getting questioned/caught and the impact it might have on my 5-yr update for my security clearance and employment. Just way too much at stake for me to even contemplate a move like that, but more power to ya for pulling it off!
Our tax did the same thing, went down to just a couple bucks. A few years ago they started charging "sales tax" on used cars. They were missing out on the tax when people bought from private parties. You paid it at your first registration. But after that you didn't owe anything ever again except the annual registration fee.
Thanks Jamesbo that's always my favorite. I'll watch it at work once in a while and one time someone came up and said, there's no way you could move like that. I said I don't have to, she does it for me.
That's how Indiana does it. I am convinced empires fall when the poor tax the rich into being poor with them and there is no more money to be taxed.
Hump Day. One of the vendors is bringing pizza in for lunch. Nancy's Pizza. This is stuffed Chicago style pizza, it's wonderful. The only way it could be better is if we were in Chicago eating it.
Chris since the dawn of time we had an annual ad valorem tax on our vehicles. If you bought a car(or whatever) retail you paid sales tax, and then the next year you started with the ad valorem, and the value went down a nominal amount for years after that to a set minimum. About ten years ago they said if you buy a car from a private person, they will assign what they think it's worth, and you pay "sales tax" on that amount, but then no ad valorem, just the tag fee after that. You still paid regular sales tax on a retail sale but then no ad valorem. However, any car you bought prior to that, you still paid ad valorem. I have a mix, some of mine are AV some of them are not. About as clear as mud I know and about as interesting. On the rare occasions I sell something, I usually ask what the person wants me to put as the sale price.
When I left Illinois, it was a flat $32 for every car. I'm guessing it's a little higher now, that was 25 years ago. Holy hell.
The heat drama continues. The AC guy was at Mom's house doing some duct work and he told me the new unit will be in Thursday, and Mom will have heat that evening. I got over there yesterday afternoon and she said she hadn't left her bedroom all day. She had the space heater going and it was about 90 in there. She still doesn't feel the greatest so I fixed myself something to eat and sat in the kitchen looking at the internet. It was about 55 in the house. Not terrible. She carries on like it's the end of the world, I said remember the hottest days of summer and I didn't have AC?
Okay gonna go get something to drink then hit it hard. Have a good day everyone.
Norm, not sure we could get away with 10% of actual sales price. Back in the day you prolly could. They actually look up average retail for used cars, etc. A friend of mine bought a small homemade trailer for $70.00 It was registered with the state and seller signed off on registration and gave my buddy a receipt for the sales price of $70.00. It all was correct. The SOS office didn't want to do it they wanted to assign a higher value to the trailer! Buddy raised some hell and talked to manager and it was settled- what a crock!!
OK say a 70 W30 Vert was sold new for $5000 in 1970. It was sold again in 1972 for $4000, again in 1976 for $2500, then in 1980 for $1000. Then stored for years. Sold again in 1992 for $1500, then again in 2002 for $3000. Then restoration started all new parts bought paid 6% sales tax on those parts also- lets say $15,000. Then restored car sells for $50,000 in 2010, Again in 2013 for $55,000. Again in 2020 for $250,000. So this Olds built in Lansing gets tax revenue of 6% of $387,000??? On a originally $5000 car!!??? Well at least here in Mi they don't come and make you pay a personal property tax on your stuff- you only pay when you buy it.
Mike - Thanks for clearing up how your vehicle tax system works and has changed thru time, I understand now. . . I think . . . I really do understand, thanks for taking the time!
Well at least here in Mi they don't come and make you pay a personal property tax on your stuff- you only pay when you buy it.
Greg - Just in case anyone's curious about what these Personal Property taxes cost in Missouri, here's my list of vehicles (newest to oldest) and total bill:
- 2017 Hyundai Sante Fe Sport AWD
- 2016 Indian Chieftain motorcycle
- 2010 Yamaha Stratoliner Deluxe motorcycle
- 2000 Ford F-150 XLT 4x4 (taxed at the minimum value)
- 1967 Oldsmobile CS 4-4-2 (taxed at the minimum value)
- Total tax $700
Glenn - I am sure that Vista is a real rarity being purchased new over there and staying in the same family all these years, pretty amazing! Looks pretty clean except for what looks to be some rust issues starting down low. Always hard to tell from pictures when they're taken from quite a distance away.
Now the twist here is that anything we have that doesn't get registered, we still need to volunteer to the county what we have and then pay the appropriate tax. I'm supposed to pay ad valorum tax on my riding lawn mower, of all things, and also my John Deere garden tractor. I guess anything with wheels. I pay that tax on my trailers. How about my kid's tricycle? Honestly.
Glenn that's a nice looking car. You don't see bright colors with the woodgrain very often it's nice. I don't see any rust on it. I do see a couple issues with the trim.
John. The most interesting thing to me about Grace Slick is SHE STILL ALIVE. Sex drugs and rock and roll took out plenty of famous musicians/singers and she made it. A miracle IMHO
The furniture shop is back in business since Momma has fully recovered from her bad allergic reaction to those vaccines. Monty is never far from her side, he likes to supervise.
I never finished the remaining cleaning/detailing I wanted to do on the 4-4-2 because it has gotten so cold, even in the garage. It's supposed to get back up into the mid-50's next week, and I plan to finish up then.
More snow in the forecast the next couple of days, maybe it really is going to be a harsh winter! Trying to get my wife to commit to a plan for what we're going to do on Thanksgiving. We've got multiple invites from her side and mine, plus she needs to decide if she's still going to cook a big meal like she usually does. I really don't care what we do, as long as there's a plan, and we can let others know what we're doing.
John. The most interesting thing to me about Grace Slick is SHE STILL ALIVE. Sex drugs and rock and roll took out plenty of famous musicians/singers and she made it. A miracle IMHO
I think it's because she is female. Women live longer, and most rock artists were men. Other than Slick, and Janis Joplin, who did not make it long, I don't know of any female rock stars from the 60s, oh and, Ronnie Spector of the Ronettes made it to this year. I think we can count Stevie Nicks and Christine McVie or Perfect since they were active then but not superstars. Rock was a dude thing. There are plenty of POP female stars, and some country ones, but I think the girl rockers are so far and few because they were so far and few to begin with.
Joan Jett is still around. She looks like the life got her, though. She used to be quite the thing, and those vinyl pants said she knew that.
John. The most interesting thing to me about Grace Slick is SHE STILL ALIVE. Sex drugs and rock and roll took out plenty of famous musicians/singers and she made it. A miracle IMHO
My two buddies (Hot Tuna/Jefferson Airplane) Jorma (81) & Jack (78) are still hanging in there although neither Jack nor Jorma were big fans of the drug scene. Things appear well at The Fur Peace Ranch - surely they must serve the best Fur Burgers in the Appalachian's.
Glen, a very nice Olds. Not seeing any rust, just a reflection behind the front tire/rocker area. Buffalo is supposed to have a winter storm of historic scale. they are talking feet of snow, 3-6'. Sounds like lake effect with a vengence. I saw an old clip of Jefferson Airplane when they performed White Rabbit, when they were done, Dick Clark had a dumb look on his face. I'm thinking because it was a drug reference song.
Glen, a very nice Olds. Not seeing any rust, just a reflection behind the front tire/rocker area.
Dan - That's the area I thought I saw paint bubbling and rust underneath, my eyes must have been playing tricks on me, certainly not as good as they used to be. Got an uncle and aunt and their children in Buffalo. For their sake I hope it's not as bad as predicted.
Wow was pizza good today. I ate three pieces and was fine until I stood up. Later I thought it would be a good idea to walk down to the credit union. I'd say there and back is more than half a mile. I came home and just sat in my recliner and didn't do anything.
Wow was pizza good today. I ate three pieces and was fine until I stood up. Later I thought it would be a good idea to walk down to the credit union. I'd say there and back is more than half a mile. I came home and just sat in my recliner and didn't do anything.
Mike - Sounds like ya didn't feel too well after lunch, and the walk to the Credit Union didn't help the situation. Hope you can get a good nights sleep and you feel better in the morning!
My two buddies (Hot Tuna/Jefferson Airplane) Jorma (81) & Jack (78) are still hanging in there although neither Jack nor Jorma were big fans of the drug scene. Things appear well at The Fur Peace Ranch - surely they must serve the best Fur Burgers in the Appalachian's.
Norm - I had no clue what you were talking about when you mentioned "The Fur Peace Ranch" so I had to look it up. Sounds like an interesting place. I know you play guitar, have you visited there?
. . . I really do understand, thanks for taking the time!
