Eightupman

privately owned and operated?

http://www.internetbrands.com/autonetwork



Am I missing something??

John

Oldsguy

I don't think they are the owners, they are an internet advertising agency that provides higher traffic and hopefully greater membership, the trade is the adds you see on the site that are linked to key words. I remember a post someplace made about that. I will try to find the link.

edit: Well, I found this thread I was thinking about, but I am not so sure now that I look at the ling it gives. I guess I was wrong.

Pretty observant, thanks for noticing that.

Eightupman

That site claims to OWN over 90 brands and lists this site as one of them. Additionally, "All content Copyright © 2008 by Internet Brands, Inc. " at the bottem of each page? Why would that be there if they are merely an advertising avenue? Why would THEY care about copyrights as to what is in this forum?

I'm not trying to cause any trouble.... its just when I click on the "Contact Me" link below... I would hope to hear from a person and not some mindless corperation....

Yes, please I would like to see this link. I can now begin to understand the mass expanse of members here in the last few months after being stagnent for so long

EDIT: I found this as well. https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ldsmobile.html IB Admin? Internet Brands Admin???

John

Eightupman

Nope that isn't it. That is the instruction on how to disable the "links" that pop up with keywords within a post. Clicking them merely takes you to a search engine.

John

Omicron

Yes, Internet Brands does indeed own this website... and as you can see from that first link, they also own many other internet enthusiast forums. What used to be run on PC under someone's desk is going mainstream corporate. Why, you ask? Think of it this way: There's thousands of dollars monthly advertising revenue available for small sites, and tens of thousands of dollars available monthly for large sites. If you own several hundreds of sites, that can run into some serious coin. In other words, forums have become big business.

Internet enthusiast forums themselves are one of the most amazing things about the internet. I'm a forum junkie, and besides admining several myself, I also participate in several others. If I get interested in something, I go looking for forums about it. There are so many out there on the internet it boggles the mind. Google almost anything and you'll find enthusiast forums where they're discussing it. Think of anything you're interested in, and chances are there are several forums dedicated to it, where thousands of other people who are interested in the same topic hang out. So passionate people attracts advertisers and vendors who want to make money based on that passion by selling goods and services. And where there's money to be made, corporations pop up.

Internet brands really got going on this about 2 years ago, and initially they were really disorganized. But as time has gone on, they've gotten better and better at what they're doing. I got involved with them back in 2006 because they purchased several major forums I admin from my former friend who owned them (he got a bunch of money for the sale too). So while I know all about them. I don't work for them. (I'd consider it if they offered but they'd have to pay me as much as I make now. )

While they're a corporate entity, for the most part the people I've dealt with there are fellow auto enthusiasts just like all of us. They're really pretty good doobies overall, once you understand that as a corporation, what matters most to them is their bottom line. Apply that filter to any decisions you see coming out of them and you'll understand them.

What I've seen so far has been nothing but good stuff. One of the first things they did when they got started was to purchase the large company vBulletin, or "VBB", which is the company that makes the forum software we run on. This allowed them to start customizing the forum software to make it easier for vendors to sign up. More vendors makes a site more compelling for enthusiasts, so more people are attracted to it. They've also improved the spam-handling capabilities, so the site's admins and moderators (who are ALL VOLUNTEERS by the way, who do this for the love of it, and are not paid Internet Brands employees) have an easier time handling it.

Another advantage to having one company own many enthusiast forums is that you start to see cross forum collaboration. A tiny shop who makes something cool for the guys over on say a Chevelle forum may not realize the guys over on Olds forums would like the same product. So we get the product and he gets the money for more sales... and of course IB gets more advertising revenue. Site admins could also collaborate, such as how do we head off the latest spam attack, or blocking a troll from going to a new site and starting more $hit, etc. Or an admin on one site who knows how to do something may bring it to another site. Case in point: I admin on RX8Club.com too, and saw them put a new version of the forum software in place with some really cool helpful features for the mod staff. So I got IB to install it here too ahead of schedule. See, collaboration!

So what does this all mean for us here on ClassicOldsmobile.com? Not much besides advantages at this point. We have someone keeping our servers alive, keeping our software upgraded, and basically paying attention to the backend of keeping things running here, while the volunteer site admins and moderators handle the users. I'm sure we'll see some changes to the site too - and we have, but all good - and eventually even more stuff. Whats to come I have no idea, but I will say that this site is tiny in the grand scheme of Internet Brands things, so as long as we're not a squeaky wheel, we're not apt to get much attention or changes anytime soon.

Wow, I wrote a book! Hope this helps!

oldsonharmont

I'm sure there are a lot of advantages to having corporate ownership, but I do have reservations about the free exchange of information that takes place on these boards. For example, say a thread critical of a 'sponsor' got started.
How far would that go before someone's account was disabled? Do you really think the average Joe would have the same leverage as a paying client? I think not. I like this site, and there seems to be a certain amount of decorum here (and the occasional lame joke). But if someone gets shafted by a bad vendor, then this is the first place I would come to check. Here's hoping that never happens... or these sites will become as useless as all the sponsor driven restoration shows on Speed TV.

Eightupman

Well said. Basically I see it as a sellout. Mom and Pop organization probably got a fraction of what the value of the site is as a whole and basically several freedoms are now lost due to corperate ownership.

Additionally, now that the floodgates have opened, your ratio of good information vs bad information has dramatically increased as well... sending people to Mondello and 442.com because they THINK those are the end all be all sites of Oldsmobile lore and knowledge. The knowledgeable guys will find thier way back into the garage and not help out the "little guy"

Sadly, I may be finding my way back out of CO.... I can't see a corperation that holds 90+ websites have OUR best interests on this board.

John

J-(Chicago)

It's ok, John, if the **** ever hits the fan, we'll swarm you over on oldspower.com.
How many lost Oldsmobile kittens can you afford to feed?

Eightupman

We can feed them all!

It's not about that though. Its about the fact that I and possible others had thought this was a family run joint, and in all reality its NOT. So when/if there is an issue, we become sheeple. This site is no longer a "non profit" site. It makes money SOMEWHERE. So now it becomes all about the allmighty dollar.

Sure its the people, the members that keep this place going for sure... but now I'm leary of the underlying fact that its all about the money.

John

Omicron

From what I've seen doing this over the years I've never seen posts removed to protect a vendor. I'm not sure what IB is putting in the contacts these days, but in the past part of the agreement was that by signing up here they understand that by signing up as a vendor here, they nature acknowledge and agree to the fact that internet forums engender ALL kinds of discussion, and it won't alway be positive. The good vendors will listen to any criticism posted, explain if needed, and somehow work it out with the complainee or otherwise make it right. The poor vendors will not, and they don't last (at least on the forums anyway). And most importantly, I have never, in all my years of admining, had a site owner tell me to remove a post or shut down a discussion to protect a vendor. Never once.

What I have seen is huge big dollar revenue vendors/advertisers complain bitterly to the owners about some thread or user, only to have the owners tell them that if it weren't for the community, they wouldn't have a business - and if the vendor can't accept that, then they need to go elsewhere. In other words, even corporate owners realize that you can't stifle a forum and let the vendors run it or the members go elsewhere. Yes, they've pushed paying vendors out the door over disputes, NOT clamped down on the users.

And dollars do matter, like it or not. Even back in the day of 1 person owning this site, advertisers/vendors were paying the bills for forums and have been since long before Internet Brands comes along. Look at it this way: It costs thousands of dollars a month to host these sites, when you pay for big servers that can handle thousands of users, big databases for you to store your photos and posts and PMs and profiles and garages and signatures, and big network pipes to handle all the internet traffic to and from the site. Were it not for advertisers, no one individual could afford to give us all a place to hang out and discuss our passions.

I guess my point is, from what I've seen it doesn't matter who owns us, the forums pretty much run the same regardless. It's all a matter of how the community hangs together, and how the admins and mods run the site.

Omicron

I'd suggest you wait and see John. Has there been a big change here, and all the stuff everyone fears since 2006 when IB bought this (and many other) sites? That was 3 years ago, don't you think we'd see it by now? It hasn't happened from what I've seen. All I can see is us growing like crazy, perhaps because the other sites too have or are being taken over, or perhaps just because we're better than they are.

Seriously, I too won't stick around if a corporate giant starts calling the shots, telling us to pimp one vendor etc, but it's not like that. If I see the signs, I'll start playing Chicken Little and screaming to the high heavens about it. I will NOT blow sunshine up your skirt about it. Time will tell, but I sure haven't seen it so far, and franky, doing that kind of cloak and dagger isn't their business model. Right now they collect the advertising revenue and keep the servers alive and upgraded. The more sites the own the more advertisers they attract, and the more money they get. Perhaps some day this'll change, and maybe we'll see more banners or something (this site, and most IB sites are REALLY clean as compared to many others... check out http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/ if you want to see how bad advertisers are on some sites) but for now we're pretty safe.

agtw31

ive known this for a while.

it's pretty obvious.

Omicron

Nope, the people who run this site (Dan and I, plus all the mods you know and love) are the same family it's always been. Nothing has changed there. In fact we have to go beg our owners to do anything for us, like update the software. That have not even once come on the site and said "do this" or "do that." They are invisible to us in the running of the site.

Omicron

Wait a sec... didn't all the people at ROP come running over here not too long ago?

derek nesdoly

...Just 'cause someone's paranoid,doesn't mean someones not out to get them! I don't care if this site is run by cross-dressing,Communist cormorants,as long as it a] gets my Olds related questions answered b]is user friendly and frown's on "trolls" and c] is free and remains as well run as it has been since I joined! OOH!! Someones making money...that's something we encourage in our capitalist N.American society, heck, maybe someone who owns this site can help me in that regard!

citcapp

This is great site and to soon for chicken little to show up and cry the sky is falling, the sky is falling.

old tired rebel

I am a member of other IB sites. Mostly they are great,run smoothly. But like other big website and small websites a lot depends a lot on the Admin who run each site. I don't have a problem with IB websites.

Red Delta

Well said sir.

Omicron

Wait... I want to be Chicken Little!

Yep, I too admin on 4 IB sites, and participate in a half dozen others (what can I say, I'm into cars! ) so I agree IB's ownership is pretty benign.

Eightupman

Please let's not confuse the sites www.oldspower.com and www.realoldspower.com are two different animals with different niches, but with Oldsmobiles at heart.

Omicron- you seem very defensive about this? All about the money... yes. Someone got a fat wallet out of it I'm sure. But that is life/business isn't it?

BUT thousands of dollars to run a website??? PLEASE!!! Myself and another gentleman run one for about $70 per month with little to no vendor sponsorship... plus a relatively small initial investment.

Is this going to prevent me from coming here and posting? Possibly not... but it surely changed what I felt about the site.

Olds owners are still Olds owners and as I say about any of the Olds sites I go to, they all have thier niche. It's a tight community so I don't see the big deal here in asking questions about how a site is run. No one had to answer my posts either beautiful thing about the interwebs...

John

Omicron

By the way - I really want to thank Eightupman and others for bringing up this topic. I had to live and breath this over on the other forums for a long time after the take over, as it caused all sorts of chaos over there.

Every site is different. Some good some bad. This one I find especially friendly, mellow, and low key (and we aim to keep it that way!) but also containing tons of useful info. I may get a bit passionate in my examples to illustrate a point, but talking about it brought it all to the forefront of my mind again... bad old days or something. I thought for sure it'd already been hashed out here before my time on this site. We too were freaked when IB took over, and as admin, I was right in the middle. Turned out it was no big deal. *phew*

Eightupman

Please trust me when I say I didn't MEAN for any chaos. I had some questions and wasn't quite sure of what was going on when I started digging. And in seeing that, I had no clue who to PM with issues. Now I know, and that is cool. I know EXACTLY what you when through with a "takeover" of a website. I can say beyond shadow of doubt.. "BEEN THERE DONE THAT".

I had always thought DAN (Oldsguy) was one of the owners. He is the one I was talking to when I had the chance to purchase the other site. I'm HAPPY that it (oldspower) didn't end up in the "corperate world". I send people over here all the time ESPECIALLY for the pre 1968 stuff... Our site just doesn't have the member base that is into that era.

All is well..... wooooooosaaaaaaaa!!!

John

Omicron

And yarp, not defensive about it, just understand it from all levels. And trying to be thorough in responding to everyone's questions on this thread.

Yep, all is well - and I/we do appreciate you bringing it up!

delmontcrusier

I had to go back to the top to see what started all this hub bub.I have been on this site since say june, july sometime around there and have enjoyed it right along.I have got good info,found my latest project on here and enjoy the humor/pleasentness.Now this may be do to the mods and amins but still can't say I have had any probs.I had to figure out a few settings on my end to customize to what I wanted but that is nothing.The other thing is the site was alreaddy owned by IB long before I joined.I do agree though if the site was changed and I had to pay to use it I would be likley to shy away.But as long as it stays in the general realm of what we have now I am happy

agtw31

i run to the store for milk,it doesnt mean i stay there and drink it.

i like this board for what it is,but don't get ahead of yourself.

ROP is the premier Olds board on the net,period.

Omicron

Lol, Not getting ahead of myself. Not sure how you want me to respond to that. Is this like walking into Target and telling the store employees that Walmart is much better? But like you say, sorta, each site is good in it's own way. We all have accounts over on ROP, but many of us hang out here. It's the ambiance and the nice lighting... or maybe it's like the bar in Cheers "Where everyone knows your name." (Come to think of it, where's Norm?! )

cutlassgal

Yeah, what you both said! I love this site and all my new friends. This is a wonderful place to learn things, and to have some fun and de-stress too!! I'm not going anywhere!! You guys are stuck with me!!!

442much

Personally I find this site much more frendly and like to hang out here and the 73-77 Olds froum which is also populated with very friendly people.

Not to say that there are not friendly people over at ROP, there are. It's just that anything you say over there could get you labeled a liberal (like it's a bad thing) and into a pissing match with some ultra conservative who's gung ho and ready to take on the 18th century. If you happen to like or God forbid voted for, the current president, then off with your head.

Omicron

OFF with your head! LOL, nice.

And BTW, your car sure does look lihe the one featured in this month's Journey With Olds that just showed up in my mailbox today. Coincidence?

oldsonharmont

I haven't joined the other sites yet, because I'm satisfied here. But it seems I do remember a thread being pulled from ROP that had to do with someone bashing Inline Tube Co. Anyone else remember that, is ROP also an IB property?

Eightupman

Yes, there was an "incident" with a particular tubing former of which I will not dare mention thier business name. I will say no more on that topic.

ROP is built, owned and operated by a pair of brothers who also run a full time business. what business? i can't tell you. There is rumor of them owning a drag strip as well.

OP is owned and operated by two guys that were in the right place at the right time.

Eightupman

HEY that sounds like what I tell people. Some like McDonalds, some like Burger King and some like Wendy's.... but ALL of them still sell hamburgers!!!

(now if I could walk in and get a BK Tendercrisp, with Mcd's fries and a Frosty all in the same store!! mmmmmmm)

John

Oldsguy

Wow! What happens over night could fill a book.......a fairly large one in this case. I never dreamed this thread would go this way when I made my first response and have about five or six things to say to various posts made here which I will probably forget by the time I finish my next sentence. First, interesting to know I was perceived to be an owner of this site, much less anything else! Thanks John for the compliment, now let me PM you my address so you can send me a cigar ( I like the CAO Brazilia in the Amazon size). Second, I think IB owning this site is quite benign, as I noticed no difference in reference to the subject of big brother controlling content which would be un-friendly to any advertising business. I have never been asked to make any changes, to ban an member, or to delete any content by IB, never, for any reason. Third, I take great comfort in reading the various responses in this thread, noticing the civility that has prevailed. My compliments to all. Fourth, I visit ROP, I visit OP (admittedly not much) and I visit two or three other sites. I think they are all fine and I won't comment negatively on any of them and hope that their staff/admin/mod personnel would reciprocate. And finally........................................... ....I forgot.

Olds64

IB asks me to do that all the time...

442much

Nope, they are one and the same.

Eightupman

There was a time early in my ownership experience where I had a tendancy to go round and round with members of another site. Not this one. Matter of fact I think I MAY have joined this site first, before the one I own. I'm never had anything ill to say about ClassicOlds or the way the admin here holds court. Like anywhere, I have had run ins with a select few... but I'm not the ONLY one that has had issue with those people so that should tell ya something. The MAIN reason I shied away from CO a couple years back is that it took a week or longer to get any response to any post... not so helpful if I'm in the garage elbows deep in a project and can't find some bit of info. Not so much the case anymore. As mentioned, I refer guys to CO all the time now.

I merely posted this topic to say HEY!! What is the deal? I'm thinking CO is owner operated (by you) and come to find out, its not the case so I had questions. Does it make a difference how a site is run? I beleive it does. CO HAS in fact changed over the course of the last two year. Not for the good or the bad per se but an evident change. All in all, I guess I just missed the "under new management" sign.

John

Omicron

Whaaaaaa? I hope you're joking, or talking about another site. PM comin yer way.

Omicron

I personally am really glad you brought it up. Been a good discussion!

Omicron

Wow, a celebrity in our midst! Love the new hood and the car... also was an excellent article. Now we need to see more pics of your beautiful 76! Those 76-77's are my favorite 442 besides the 69-72 model years. Someday when I have more garage space I hope to have one much like yours. Really really nice.

Olds64

Paul, I was joking. Sorry. I've never been approached by anyone to do any editing. All I ever do is change someone's post if they were cussing.