JohnnyBs68S

That For Sale thread on the '70 GT got me thinking: Which is faster? Both are rated at 400 HP, same drivetrain, I suspect the Olds is a teensy bit lighter, but that 500 ci Caddy is rated +50 ft-lbs according to my Mitchel Manuals. I think this would be a kickin' matchup. What do you think?

vCode442

Good stuff Johnny. It’s all about getting the power to the pavement right, that’s why teslas are so crazy fast, direct drive motors at each wheel putting power and instant torque right where it’s needed.

I’m guessing the Toro might be able to put the power to the pavement more productively, all else being equal, with the engine over the drive wheels.

And of course it’s an Oldsmobile so I’m going with the Toro

joe_padavano

The Eldo is exactly the same and uses the same TH425 trans.

vCode442

So much for my Eldorado knowledge😲

Therefore my money is on the front wheel drive car with the best ability to put the power to the pavement 🤣

JohnnyBs68S

Exactly, which is why I'd LOVE to see a YouTube video of these 2 ultimate FWD personal luxury coupes go head to head. You know that pretty stock-representative examples exist (probably less than a handful). If only someone could find them, get them to agree to a match-up, get them to the track and get a video of it. Who wouldn't love to see Old's highest-rated 455 go up against Caddy's biggest, baddest 500. They are each other's only fair competition (well, until Buick's Riviera went FWD). I guess I could search for old road tests and go by that, but everyone knows different levels of tune (especially w/ a carb and pure mechanical timing) and test conditions can throw those comparisons off. Besides, you cannot beat seeing these two go head to head on the track.

BTW, one of my dream cars (even as a Hot Wheel) is a '67-'68 Eldorado. Seen two of them sell at ACD a few years back for under $10K.

vCode442

For my penance I found this, and I’m performing additional homework as well. https://www.streetmusclemag.com/feat...toronado-w-34/


I should’ve known about the Eldo, just wasn’t thinking. Played three sets of singles tennis this afternoon and I’m wiped out.

69CSHC

The battle of the personal luxury titans circa 1970, what a great thread Johnny. I'm totally into this. I've owned a 71 Eldo, love Olds, and i'm a numbers junkie when it comes to stock performance specs. So I am a bit familiar across the board. Anyway here goes...

Actual road tests.
1968 Toronado GT W34 400 HP 500 lb ft torque, 4655 lbs curb, 4805 lbs test weight Car & Driver April 1968
1970 Cadillac Eldorado 400 HP 550 lb ft torque, 4721 lbs curb, unknown test weight Motor Trend July 1970

1968 Toro / 0-60 in 7.7 seconds, 1/4 mile 15.7 @ 89.8 MPH
1970 Eldo / 0-60 in 8.8 seconds, 1/4 mile 16.37 @ 85.87 MPH

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/membe...o_Test_1-5.pdf

http://cadillacinsouthernontario.com...sg8993#msg8993


Below are virtual road tests via ideal computer simulation, Automobile Catalog.

1968 Toro / 0-60 in 7.4 seconds, 1/4 mile 15.3 @ 93 MPH, top speed 139 mph ( test weight 4715 lbs) 3.08 gear
1970 Toro / 0-60 in 7.2 seconds, 1/4 mile 15.2 @ 94 MPH, top speed 139 mph ( test weight 4697 lbs) 3.07 gear
1970 Eldo / 0-60 in 7.4 seconds, 1/4 mile 15.4 @ 90 MPH, top speed 131 mph ( test weight 4918 lbs) 3.07 gear

Olds64

Thanks for the info and links Phil. That would definitely be a cool match up!

therobski

In the late 60's in Milwaukee by brother worked for Yeagar Oldsmobile and once in a while he would bring home a Toro demo. The one thing that I remember well, is that car would NOT get stuck in the snow. It was fun blowing through the drifts.

vCode442

Today’s homework/edification

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/art...illac-eldorado

JohnnyBs68S

Excellent, thanks 69CSHC! Even though these 2 cars were within 100 lbs of each other and were not tested under identical conditions, this seems to indicate that the Olds might be a bit under-rated (or the Caddy over-rated). 4 MPH difference in the 1/4 mile is not an insignificant amount.

Good article! My grandpa's '67 Coupe DeVille had that same 340 HP 429 as this '67 Eldo. I got to drive it a bit in HS, no sporting pretensions whatsoever. But could fit a small piano in the trunk.

69CSHC

I think that the Eldorado was so overrated it made the W34 seem underrated. But in the end both were likely overrated.

Years back when I had the 71 Eldo, I did plenty of research on the 500 CID. There was and still is a site for Cadillac performance. https://www.cad500parts.com/

They engine dynoed the original 1970 400 HP 550 lb ft torque 500 CID "bone stock", Gross numbers but with stock manifolds were actually, 323 HP and 504 lb ft

On the Olds side, January 30, 1970, report from the Project Engineering Experimental Laboratories engine dynoed the W34 to 368 HP Gross.

https://www.cad500parts.com/catalog/page10.htm

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hors...r-1960s-1970s/


Put headers on the 500 and I'm figuring the beast will jump up 30 HP. But we are still talking approximately 350 HP for Cad vs 370 for Olds. So 20 extra horse, outside air induction, less weight (Motor Trend admitted to 2 passengers on board for Eldo test) either way, all else the same and Olds will win every time IMHO.

A great match-up nonetheless, the cream of the crop from both companies. One of the best automotive match-ups of all time if you think about it. 2 of the most expensive cars money can buy at the time, because the respective companies threw everything at them. While at the height of the original muscle era.

If you browse the Car & Driver Toro road test they dedicated 2 paragraphs to the options.... It starts "Our test car was the Ultimate Weapon from the Oldsmobile camp.". That line says it all. Olds went above and beyond as I am sure Cadillac did also.