Allan R

Good start on the sill plates. I think it's going to take a lot of time and effort to get them back to where they shine though. From what I've seen on the web, 400 to 600 grit wet sandpaper will not hurt them a bit. Just keep the paper wet and clean the area you're working on frequently. One vid I looked at said that it could take up to 8 hours to clean and polish pieces like this. They also suggested different compounds (like 3M cutting) to get the heavy work done. To get the high gloss you can use a drill attachment with a buffing wheel.

Where did you find the broadcast card for your car? Your interior code translates to "Covert Gold" which is an 'orion cloth' trim. It has almost got a metalic sheen to it. I have an actual sample in my 72 ordering guide - nice looking color - when it's new anyway.

Allan R

No, that's not a build sheet. It's called a broadcast card. The build sheet is way more detailed and is about 8 X 10
here's an example:

alek72us

Oh wow. i guess i have never found any of mine. i thought the broadcast sheet was it. lol

Allan R

No worries alek. Lots of people get confused by this. It's darn near impossible to find an actual build sheet from a Lansing car. I found 3 broadcast sheets in mine though. For some reason, Freemont production left a lot of build sheets in various places in the cars. May have been on purpose or not, but those are the folks who hit pay dirt when they found them. Build sheets are the holy grail of Olds authentication for these old cars. There are no records available for cars built in the USA and sold in the USA prior to around 1975.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Hey Allan,

Yep! My seats were originally covert gold, except there was barely any seat fabric left when i got the car, it was mostly yellow exposed foam. When my dad owned his cutlass in 72, he opted for bamboo exterior with dark saddle vinyl interior. So i decided to go with dark saddle, because i know he'll give me heck if the car is any other way :P

I found the broadcast sheet under the dash area when i was taking out that old foam... Not sure if it was supposed to be there, but it was and it was completely soaked in undercoating. I've used almost a whole roll of paper towel to get it to where it is in the picture above..

Where else did you find your broadcast sheets??

Allan R

Found them:
1. Stuffed under the rear seat spring
2. On the tranny hump under the jute of the carpet.
3. Behind one of the inside panels

I have no idea why there were so many of them around. I only kept 1. Now I'm kicking myself because there might have been something else on the other ones. Wish they had put a build sheet in there instead. BTW, I'm really hoping that when I take out the package tray in the rear window, I'll find the build sheet. How's that for being an optimist?

Allan R

Hey Tony, here's a thought.
With all the work you're doing to the sill plates, did you realize they are only 60 bucks a set - new from Fusicks? You'll probably spend 10 times that in the hours it will take to restore those old ones.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Yup! I've definitely written those down into my "wish list" that i plan on buying someday.

I'm only working on these for the sheer enjoyment of seeing if i can 'save' another part from going to the scrap heap. Hopefully i can clean them up nice enough to be a driver for the first little while and then once i really get into the finishing touches, buy a new set.

I actually recently bought a carpet from the parts place (if you call January 2010 recent) And i've been waiting to install it since i had a couple patches to make in the floor panel near the rear seat. I think it should look nice with the refurb sill plates.

I do notice a bit of corrosion along the edges, so whether i like it or not, eventually they're gonna have to go!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

In other news!

Front headlight bezels (the rectangular aluminum piece that had the insides painted black in 72).

Is it supposed to be gloss black? Or match the satin black on the grilles? I'm hoping it's satin because i still have a can and a half of that left...

70cutt

So i polished a random piece of trim off of my front windshield. It turned out great with water and foil.

My sill plates were right there too so i grabbed one and took a wet sanding sponge to it then finished with some buffing compound. Nothing earth shattering... Just a ton of deep scratches in em still. I bet a drill attachment to get into the grooves would make short work of it. $60 is going to be my route...

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Agreed,

Mine are completely corroded on the side that faces the inside, I took a light wirebrush to it and it ate right thru... For sill plates I'm not too worries about it being oem, repops would be fine for me.

Allan R

Haven't heard anything for awhile. Did you get your 'new' control arms yet? Hows the cleanup going on the frame. Might as well take out those inner liners so you have room to work with...

I'm guessing you're having the kind of fun Rob and I did a while back. Gosh I wish I was there to do it all over again! Actually - I really do wish I could be there. It's way easier to do stuff and talk in person than over the 'puter'. Plus the job goes so much faster. Pass the beer, eh?

Grey Cup hangover??? Not me. My team wasn't playing so I went curling instead. Came in 2nd (hint: you can only come in first or second) Yup, we lost. Still more fun than sitting around watching tv.

I have another project to do tommorrow - service the wifes Saturn. Oil/filter change, trans fluid/filter change, service brake rotors/pads, new brake hoses, flush brake fluid and bleed system, flush rad. Should keep me busy for a few hours. Amazing, this car is 15+ years old, 139K Km, and has only needed brakes and a new alt in the entire time I've owned it (new). Still, I wouldn't buy it again. Saturn was not service friendly after the warranty ran out. And there were some things that should have been done on warranty that weren't. oooops, better stop now.....

I see you're enjoying some good weather for now! We 'officially' got up to about 9° here. Then it started raining and sleeting. Pretty slippery out there this morning!

Cheers bud, waiting to hear what's going on....

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Hey Allan,

I'm definitely having the time of my life :P right now I'm working on tearing apart the dash area of my car, just got in the new dash piece and it looks prett nice! I shall be posting some pictures soon! I hate rust and there's Alot that's just got to go..

I wanted to get the new dash piece painted and detailed before I install it Since it's really difficult to get under the dash to paint after it's installed..

Control arms should be in soon! Perhaps Monday, I'm excited, Scott chose a nice set for me. The bushings might still be okay but I'll swap them out for good measure.

Frame cleaning is worse than I though! It seems they baked on the undercoAting, and its not like it did much! It's all a sheet of rust under he undercoating, so my question is, what was this thick tar any good for??!!

I definitely hear ya with the Saturn.. I just did the oil/trans/filter drain and check on my sentra. When we bought the car, Nissan was great, but the day the warranty expired 15 years ago I started learning car repairs on my own needless to say.. I seem to be the only one on my family that has the patience to be honest..

How's the weather out in Edmonton?? You guys still dealing with the buckets of snow falling?? I was actually already on the ski hills last weekend! I'm actually hoping to get out to Seattle for work this coming January/February and hopefulu get some skiing in at whistler!

Allan R

Sounds like you're making good progress. Yup, I understand about wanting to pre paint before it goes in, but that might be a problem for the welding. Wouldn't worry too much about it. When you're done the welding just go under the dash with a rattle can and prime/paint it as best you can. Not like it's going to be abused like it was in past.

If it's really thick? Chances are it's had several coats applied over the years. That stuff is supposed to last for about 3 years and then get re-applied. That's probably why it was so thick. Rusty underneath? Chances are the old layers cracked and let in moisture. That's bad because it also keeps the moisture inside, which you know leads to more rust. Hopefully you don't find any rust through on the frame. It's pretty thick stuff, but rust is merciless. Now you know what kind of hell I went through cleaning that crap off my frame and parts...

Yeah, the Saturn is ok to work on, but when it grows up to be a real car I'll be happier. Also had to change the fuel filter. You will not believe what a PITA that is. Fortunately I had the front wheels off to do hoses. The filter is behind the front wheel housing. You have to take off the inner splash shield to get at it. My fingers need to go on a diet. There's sure not as much room to work with as I would like. Most of the fun was remembering to pull the fuel pump fuse, run the car dry, double check the schraeder valve and make sure there was not pressure left. Still you get some gas spillage. Glad the engine wasn't hot. Probably going to replace the struts in the spring (they're originals) - lots of corrosion on them. Think I'll just go for the total rebuilt strut assembly. Don't feel like dealing with a damn spring compressor again.

It's been nice out here. Last night we got a skiff of snow (1-2cm). Been really pleasant weather wise. Haven't been skiing for over 20 years. If I fell I'd probably cave in the mountain. For winter fun now I go curling. Might have to break out the ice auger and tent soon and head out fishing.

Looking forward to seeing more of your progress. Take Care!

chrisneu68olds

Backing up a bit. Great idea about bringing your CSM when getting an alignment done but it does bring a question to mind. If a older car which was shipped with bias ply tires originally wouldn't the alignment values be different for radials? Simple question from a simple mind.

Allan R

Valid question. But the answer is no. The alignment will still require the same adjustments. Some +'s of radial tires: less rolling resistance and better road holding ability.

EDIT: the alignment is more directly related to the wheel than the tire. The effects of bad alignment show up on the tire and are corrected by setting the camber, castor and toe angles for the wheel. The tire is just the extension of the wheel. Does that help?

chrisneu68olds

Thanks Allan!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Definitely! I actually just primed my entire dash this evening. It's looking pretty spiffy so far. I'm happy Joe cut a little bit more than i asked for, that way i have a couple inches of play when i do the final installation. Wish i had a spot welder right about now...
--- Actually, my welder "does" have an attachment i can add for a spot welder... (Lincoln Electric 180A Mig. But i've gotten pretty used to just timing it on my own.. Who knows! Maybe when i can fit it into my budget.

It's definitely thick, but LUCKILY no through rust, It seems that it's just a nasty coat of surface crap all over the frame itself. Apart from that, it seems pretty solid.

All that just to replace a couple parts?! Sounds like Japanese engineering to me woops, did i say that out loud? We canadian engineering believe in adding more steel to Get R' Done.
I would definitely go for the full assembly, i was thinking about the same with my sentra (1995) they are originals, and really starting to sqeuak from time to time.

Wow! You guys should definitely get out skiing, i recently brought my dad back on the slopes ( he hasn't skied since 1978). It's a great time.

I was actually skiing in Austria and switzerland last winter, out there. Here is the daily schedule.

8:00am: Wake up
8:02am: Should probably eat something
10am: looks like it's early enough to head to the pub
3pm: Ski
4pm:Pub

I have been trying to adopt that skiing technique here in Montreal, Ain't workin' so well yet. Heh.

Back to the car! i must see how my dash priming turned out! wish me luck!

Allan R

I still have a 2 sets of 205's and a set of 223's in the shed. I used to be really good. Even raced back in the day. G Slalom was a rush. Seriously, it was so cool. Once you get past about 45mph the sound all disappears and you are one with the skiis and slope. It burns on the the legs when you just can't stop.

I did ski St. Moritiz back in 82. Really cool place to visit. A totally different culture and you walked everywhere. No VISA or they'd kill you. All cash. So I had to carry a lot of travellers cheques. Anyone with bags of money automatically got to go to the front of ANY line you were in.

Worst memory of the trip? The cute waitress with really HAIRY legs, and finding out the 'steak' we had for supper was horsemeat! Actually it was not bad...
Best memory of the trip? The travel and the people. Oh and raclette. Before we left I bought a couple of those swiss army knives. We took all the furniture apart and rebuilt it on the hotel balcony at 3:00 am. Then we went down to the front desk and checked out 'early'. Walked to the train station and waited, hoping the local gendarmes wouldn't come looking. They didn't but I never knew whether the hotel staff got a laugh out of that, or cursed us. They knew we were wierd.....


GOOD LUCK bud!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Here is the update on the dash.

When i got it, it was down to bare metal in some spots, and really needed a deep sanding and some paint.



It looked pretty solid, So i went with my angle grinder and sanding disk, sanded it down to bare metal. and put a nice thick coat of automotive primer.

It needs a little bit of work in 1 spot. As you will see in the third picture below.

Anyone have any tips for mounting a piece like this? Anyone who's done this before, please chime in! I want to make sure i do it perfectly so it never needs to be done again.

Allan R

You can probably use some 'liquid metal' to bring that up to where you want it. Don't know what setting you'd use to use tac welding on that. Great job BTW. Don't be in a big rush - git'r done right the first time. Wish I could offer you help mounting it. I'll be on the Air Canada red eye tonite. AC1172. See ya at 510 at Mirabel? Naw, just kidding. It would be fun though. I could take a crash course in welding 101. Weld, beer, weld beer webl, bere, wlevb, bree.... thashhh fftiiis jst gggrate..

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Sounds aweosme to me! I need all the help i can get.. Not to mention all the beer i can get

I will definitely do this right the first time. Say, You are a connaiseur of matching factory colours. What type of paint should i be using to paint my dash? I was thinking a nice brown gloss auto paint for the part that sits inside the car (i'll try to match it as close to factory as i can). And a nice satin black for the outside bit that sits underneath the windshield wipers.

I actually live a 15 minute walk from the airport, since with work and all i was back and forth to seattle last year. Now it's quieted down quite a bit. It's nice to not be on the road 6 months of the year and finally devote some time to the more important things in life. Mainly, the Cutlass

Allan R

Uh, no. You don't want to use any gloss at all on parts that are dash related. The reason is reflections onto the windshield. Have you ever noticed that all dashes are muted colors that absorb light instead of reflecting it? There's a reason.... Also, the 72 year was the first models that the rearview mirror changed to black facing the oncoming traffic. Previous years they were chrome and caused a lot of reflection to oncoming traffic..

Since you're changing the color of the interior to saddle, I'd go with a satin (def low sheen) brown and satin black like you suggested on the cowl area.
For the outside cowl area consider something like this: http://www.eastwood.com/underhood-bl...sol-11-oz.html
If you have a NAPA store nearby that carries CMAX paints, you can have the brown rattle can custom blended and specify it to be a matte finish. Tell them why; they will know the formula to use so its not so shiny. You'll also have to paint the VIN trim and tag to match.

Lady72nRob71

I would not use this underhood black as it is not durable enough. It dries fast and has a beautiful finish, but it damages easily.
I would use their Rust encapsulator. Use two coats of it if you want a flat finish. Uf you want semigloss, use one coat RE plus another coat of their Extreme chassis black (in satin). I have had good luck with those. They are running a free shipping deal, so MAYBE the Canada rates would be at least discounted?

Keep up the great work!

Allan R

Good info! What exactly would you use it on if it's not that durable??

So ECB would be the way to go for cowl and rad? Their website is a little bit of a nightmare for me to navigate; it assumes I know what I want.... I saw they had a clear spray for metal parts - I could have used that instead of painting everything cast. Oh well, I'm very happy with the way my front turned out. Do they have a satin clear that will 'dull down' a gloss paint applied on the cowl/firewall?

You might be interested in this. When I was bleeding the brakes on my car, I forgot to put the cover on the Master Cylinder and it spurted bf onto the cowl, booster and firewall. I cleaned up as much as I could right away. Apparently I didn't get the cowl in time. The stuff that Ken sprayed on there started bubbling and came off pretty easy. I was amazed that the original paint for the cowl (beautiful satin black) was intact underneath. I might just use some more bf to clean the rest of it (under controlled conditions) and rinse well with water. Moral to the story: Even idiots get a lucky break once in awhile.

You really do live in a fantasy world, don't you .

Lady72nRob71

Eastwood's site is not good - enough said. Slow!!

Plain rust encapsulator is what I would use for the firewall, as it was flat on my car. Upper cowl and rad support would be good ECB satin. Both survived the control arm bushing beating, so it is durable.
They do have a clear satin that could help you. Just make sure it is compatible with your finish. Lacquers and enamels can fight each other.

I had a couple drops of brake fluid drip on my POR15'ed frame that I did not know about. Bubbled it right off! Luckily it is in a hard-to-see area. That brake fluid is really something!

In many ways, yes...

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Hey All,

Hope you gentlemen are doing well. and WOW, no idea there was a paint conversation going on in my thread :P

In other news. I did manage to get some real nice tractor paint yesterday for my dash, it's a nice dark saddle brown and went on smooth. Should dry hard as a rock.

It's not matte, it's more of a satin finish, but i Like that. It's drying right now in my workshop. Pictures to come this evening!

I still havn't decided what i'm doing about that little spot that lifted on the dash... See picture in above post.

Rob and Allan, what do you guys think?? Liquid metal? I know bondo makes a version of that, never tried it though. I can actually access that little hole from behind, i was thinking of slipping a little piece of sheet metal behind it and welding it in. Thoughts???

Thanks all!

-Tony

Lady72nRob71

Tractor paint? Sounds like something us Texans should be using...

I avoid body work like the plague, so I do not have much advice. Welding in a metal section is ideal, but for a small area under no structural stress, a mesh and filler could be used...

Allan R

Tony, if the metal under the primer has already been coated with rust inhibitor, I'd just go with a filler. Probably doesn't even need to be plastic metal - just a regular body filler. Should be easy to apply and finish. Put something behind the hole as backing when you do it. Wherever you have little pin holes, I'd just use glazing putty, prime and paint.

So what kind of tractor is brown? Looking forward to seeing the pics. You know you'll also have to take the inside A pillar parts and paint them the same color to match the dash? "might as well' since you have the dash out anyway...Did you ever find another dash pad yet? Don't worry about color because you can paint or dye it whatever color you want.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Really??

The front of my current dash pad is in pretty good shape. I'll grab a picture tonight, Still at work right now though..

I had no idea you could paint vinyl... My door panels are looking really ratty. They're currently the white/cream colour. i would really really like to paint them the proper saddle brown that my dad had his car in for 1972.

I like the cream/white/beige colour, but i honestly want to make it saddle. The A-Pillars are already painted to match! I think i will put another coat on them before i grab some pictures. It's regular Brown Corrostop paint (i think Tremclad/Rust-Oleum in the states?) It's made by Sico. I used it on my dad's lawn tractor and it's really tough! You guys should definitely try it out. Dries to a powder coat finish and you can get it in rattle cans too!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Who says us canadians can't be farmers!

Lady72nRob71

One that has been plowing the dusty fields of TX, or a rusty one. They only start off as Green, red, gray, or blue......... You would not want a brown tractor, as you would loose it in a field of drought-burned crops after dismounting for an ice-tea break.

Thats not even a real tractor, so brown looks fine on it... Just make sure you are cutting green grass so you do not misplace it.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Hey Guys,

Here's an update on the dash situation.

So turns out i had to prime it, sand it down Twice, before i could get a nice smooth paint coat out of it.

Here's how it turned out (2 coats of primer, 2 coats of paint).

Allan R

Maybe it's just the angle, but it looks black. Nevertheless it's a HUGE improvement from the rust out you started with. You could probably sell it now for big bucks

It might be a little too glossy though

car_designer

Your work looks great.

1968ragtop

I have a dumb question, why do these dashes rust out like that, a windshield leak? condensation? Does anyone make a reproduction peice to replace this? Thanks.

Allan R

Not a dumb question at all. They rust because of continued trapped moisture and crud that gets between the cowl trim and the metal. Cars that get parked outside and under trees are especially vulnerable. The wet leaves are acidic and add to the moisture containment on the car. Ever see a car that was stored out in a field or in a forest? Tony is doing a fabulous job restoring this 72. He found his deep in leaves and in a forest. Commendable effort and dedication - I give him top marks for his passion and perseverence.

It can also rust out from poor sealant at the bottom of the windshield. Water can find it's way into just about any opening and can actuall travel 'back and up' into the car. To quote W Shatner - "Wierd, or what?"

Haven't seen any repro pieces yet. But whoever starts popping them out will earn a fortune. Maybe one day the big aftermarket repop stores will have them included in their sheetmetal inventory. Classic industries (best known for Chebby) is now doing Mopar. Maybe soon - Olds??

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Thanks! It's been a long road with the rust on this car. So i'm trying to get every piece i put back onto it in tip-top shape.

When i found my car (as Allan said, and thanks for the encouragement, i need all i can get with this rust....) It was found in the back-woods near canada's capital city (ottawa) it was sitting out there for god-knows how long...

Most of my time on this Car has been spent replacing rusty metal, and buying nice clean parts off the friendly guys on this site. Honestly, even though it's a far way to ship, i've had great luck with all the folks on this site. If your passion is in the Olds, then this is the place to be!

Here is another picture i just snapped now. the backside of my dash was a little nasty, it took a couple wire wheels and sandpapers to get all the rust off. I'm happy with the way it turned out.

car_designer

It looks like your suspension thread is turning into a full build thread. Keep up the work and the updates.

Mind if I ask if you found the car on the Gatineau or Ottawa side?

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Sure, I bought it around 3 years ago from a guy up in Gatineau, weird thing was that it was plated in Ontario, not quebec. It was in pretty rough shape, so I'm doing whatever I can to bring it back to where it should be.

Speaking of the build, I originally had a rust dash thread too. But decided to post everything here. Makes sence for anyone that wants to follow my debauchery.

Cheers,

Tony