My chassis just tore like tissue
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 180
From: East Oakland, Ca.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 180
From: East Oakland, Ca.
Here's a list of parts we ordered today.
What do you all think?
This is for front suspension & steering repair / refurb, & big block swap.
The inner tie rod ends were not in stock so we'll get those somewhere else...
The 455 motor mounts have not been ordered yet but I am aware that we need them.
image_zpsfaf21082.jpg
image_zps3f6d6981.jpg
What do you all think?
This is for front suspension & steering repair / refurb, & big block swap.
The inner tie rod ends were not in stock so we'll get those somewhere else...
The 455 motor mounts have not been ordered yet but I am aware that we need them.
image_zpsfaf21082.jpg
image_zps3f6d6981.jpg
Last edited by Ces; Jul 16, 2014 at 02:42 PM.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 180
From: East Oakland, Ca.
Thank you! My welder said it's no problem and he'll knock it out early next week.
We got a head start on his to do list, today.
My other mechanic came out and removed everything nessecery to weld her up.
So she'll be sitting until then...
We got a head start on his to do list, today.
My other mechanic came out and removed everything nessecery to weld her up.
So she'll be sitting until then...
MOTORHEAD
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From: minnesota USA
Thread Starter
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From: East Oakland, Ca.
Connoisseur d'Junque
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 21,183
From: The Hudson Valley
Just got a look at those close-ups. I agree that they look great.
You can see from the one picture, as Joe said, that parts of the cracks are rusty.
Interestingly, it looks as though the rusty parts are discontinuous. In other words, it looks (to me, at least) as though one edge cracked, then the entire bracket flexed repeatedly, other cracks distant from the first crack opened up, and finally the metal between those points fatigued and gave way, causing the catastrophic failure.
You can also clearly see how the broken edges fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, allowing for only one position for reassembly (obviously, the possibility of portions of the attachment area bending before letting go needs to be considered, but I don't see much, if any of that in these pictures).
Glad to hear you're headed in the right direction!
- Eric
You can see from the one picture, as Joe said, that parts of the cracks are rusty.
Interestingly, it looks as though the rusty parts are discontinuous. In other words, it looks (to me, at least) as though one edge cracked, then the entire bracket flexed repeatedly, other cracks distant from the first crack opened up, and finally the metal between those points fatigued and gave way, causing the catastrophic failure.
You can also clearly see how the broken edges fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, allowing for only one position for reassembly (obviously, the possibility of portions of the attachment area bending before letting go needs to be considered, but I don't see much, if any of that in these pictures).
Glad to hear you're headed in the right direction!
- Eric
Administrator
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 42,475
From: Poteau, Ok
I see the MAW's have kicked in. It is a good time to replace the front parts since you already have one side apart. Glad it's working out and hopefully you'll be back in the saddle shortly. MAW check the brakes and front wheel bearings while your there also.
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 180
From: East Oakland, Ca.
Just got a look at those close-ups. I agree that they look great.
You can see from the one picture, as Joe said, that parts of the cracks are rusty.
Interestingly, it looks as though the rusty parts are discontinuous. In other words, it looks (to me, at least) as though one edge cracked, then the entire bracket flexed repeatedly, other cracks distant from the first crack opened up, and finally the metal between those points fatigued and gave way, causing the catastrophic failure.
You can also clearly see how the broken edges fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, allowing for only one position for reassembly (obviously, the possibility of portions of the attachment area bending before letting go needs to be considered, but I don't see much, if any of that in these pictures).
Glad to hear you're headed in the right direction!
- Eric
You can see from the one picture, as Joe said, that parts of the cracks are rusty.
Interestingly, it looks as though the rusty parts are discontinuous. In other words, it looks (to me, at least) as though one edge cracked, then the entire bracket flexed repeatedly, other cracks distant from the first crack opened up, and finally the metal between those points fatigued and gave way, causing the catastrophic failure.
You can also clearly see how the broken edges fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, allowing for only one position for reassembly (obviously, the possibility of portions of the attachment area bending before letting go needs to be considered, but I don't see much, if any of that in these pictures).
Glad to hear you're headed in the right direction!
- Eric
*exhale*
I'm thinking of showing some of your posts to the welder!
Any recommendation as to putting the failed metal that has moved,
back in to place? A knowledgeable neighbor, who has a perfect 68 convertible Cutlass, commented that there is no place to "push against, or hold the two parts near each other and be welded together."
The welder/mechanic who is fixing it, voiced a similar concern along the lines of, "How am I going to push the torn and failed metal back into place so I can weld it."
Someone mentioned a car jack. I said that to him and he said, maybe.
I don't doubt the guy doing the job, but if someone knows some good working and or correct technique, I'd like to know what it is.
How is it done properly or what are some of the correct ways to do it.
Thank you
ugh
but really, spirits are high as progress happens and knowing things are being done right!
Last edited by Ces; Jul 17, 2014 at 09:22 PM.
'87 Delta 88 Royale
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,514
From: Margate, England
great news.
*exhale*
I'm thinking of showing some of your posts to the welder!
Any recommendation as to putting the failed metal that has moved,
back in to place? A knowledgeable neighbor, who has a perfect 68 convertible Cutlass, commented that there is no place to "push against, or hold the two parts near each other and be welded together."
The welder/mechanic who is fixing it, voiced a similar concern along the lines of, "How am I going to push the torn and failed metal back into place so I can weld it."
Someone mentioned a car jack. I said that to him and he said, maybe.
I don't doubt the guy doing the job, but if someone knows some good working and or correct technique, I'd like to know what it is.
How is it done properly or what are some of the correct ways to do it.
Thank you
*exhale*
I'm thinking of showing some of your posts to the welder!
Any recommendation as to putting the failed metal that has moved,
back in to place? A knowledgeable neighbor, who has a perfect 68 convertible Cutlass, commented that there is no place to "push against, or hold the two parts near each other and be welded together."
The welder/mechanic who is fixing it, voiced a similar concern along the lines of, "How am I going to push the torn and failed metal back into place so I can weld it."
Someone mentioned a car jack. I said that to him and he said, maybe.
I don't doubt the guy doing the job, but if someone knows some good working and or correct technique, I'd like to know what it is.
How is it done properly or what are some of the correct ways to do it.
Thank you
Surely this is something a welder should deal with on a regular basis. I make no pretence to be a welder, but I would measure the other side, and maybe put a few tack welds on the repair section to hold everything in place, re-checking as the welding progresses. Take the time to get everything aligned perfectly before any welding takes place, be patient, and double check everything.
As the whole suspension is coming apart for new bushings etc one MAW could be closely checking the other side for stress cracks while it's all apart.
Roger.
Administrator
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 42,475
From: Poteau, Ok
If the piece that broke off is not salvageable, he can fab a new bracket and weld into place using the old one or the one on the other side as a guide. He just needs to make sure that the metal thickness and where it attaches to the frame is the same so the vehicle stance nor alignment does not change.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,815
From: Mo-Ray-Al, K-Bec.
Simple. I wouldn't. I'd cut away any stressed metal and weld in fresh. Then I'd line up the bracket and weld it clean onto the new plates.
Old(s) Fart
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,770
From: Northern VA
Old(s) Fart
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Posts: 50,770
From: Northern VA
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From: Mo-Ray-Al, K-Bec.
I wouldn't want to go cutting up one good frame to repair another good frame to start with ... so I'd be looking for a damaged frame with that section in good shape. That would seem to me to be a thin market. Savings in welding labour? I'm not seeing it. Take a piece of 14ga sheet, bend it to match in a press brake (1/4" radius would be my guess)... cut to fit and weld in. Should be under an hour's labour ... I think you'd spend a lot more time trying to track down that donor frame myself. And there'd be no lingering questions about the quality of the donor ... virgin steel has no history.
Last edited by Professur; Jul 17, 2014 at 12:09 PM.
morgan
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,925
From: CT
Surely this is something a welder should deal with on a regular basis. I make no pretence to be a welder, but I would measure the other side, and maybe put a few tack welds on the repair section to hold everything in place, re-checking as the welding progresses. Take the time to get everything aligned perfectly before any welding takes place, be patient, and double check everything.
As the whole suspension is coming apart for new bushings etc one MAW could be closely checking the other side for stress cracks while it's all apart.
Roger.
As the whole suspension is coming apart for new bushings etc one MAW could be closely checking the other side for stress cracks while it's all apart.
Roger.
Old(s) Fart
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,770
From: Northern VA
That section of frame isn't flat, and I'm not even sure it's constant width. Can someone fab and weld a piece in an hour? Yeah, sure. I just wouldn't want that level of "workmanship" on my car. Oh, and then you have to remove the LCA bracket from the torn piece, clean it up, locate it properly, and weld it back on. Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree. A clean butt weld to another frame section will be much easier in my opinion. And unless the O.P. has owned this car since new, there's no history on THIS frame either, other than it has cracked catastrophically.
morgan
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,925
From: CT
Beer Connoisseur
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,092
From: Daly City, California
Hey Ces, there is a 71 El Camino frame for sale on CL for $400, from Sac area. This would be a good donor, El camino was based on Chevelle platform from 64 to 77. I think this would be a better option.
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pts/4562435070.html
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pts/4562435070.html
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2013
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From: Mo-Ray-Al, K-Bec.
Oh yeah, nothin' to it...
That section of frame isn't flat, and I'm not even sure it's constant width. Can someone fab and weld a piece in an hour? Yeah, sure. I just wouldn't want that level of "workmanship" on my car. Oh, and then you have to remove the LCA bracket from the torn piece, clean it up, locate it properly, and weld it back on. Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree. A clean butt weld to another frame section will be much easier in my opinion. And unless the O.P. has owned this car since new, there's no history on THIS frame either, other than it has cracked catastrophically.
That section of frame isn't flat, and I'm not even sure it's constant width. Can someone fab and weld a piece in an hour? Yeah, sure. I just wouldn't want that level of "workmanship" on my car. Oh, and then you have to remove the LCA bracket from the torn piece, clean it up, locate it properly, and weld it back on. Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree. A clean butt weld to another frame section will be much easier in my opinion. And unless the O.P. has owned this car since new, there's no history on THIS frame either, other than it has cracked catastrophically.
I'll agree to disagree, but I'm not sure what it being flat or a constant width has to do with anything. As for history .. I'm talking about the patch from the donor ... it's going to be 40-50 years old, with how many micro fractures from enduring the same stresses that caused this existing one to fail.
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From: East Oakland, Ca.
I just heard back from Mike's Auto Body in Lafayette California. They said they are unwilling to take on the work because of the liability and because the bracket that is torn and mangled is a suspension point. They're of the opinion that the mangled bracket needs to be replaced. However they are unwilling to do so.
Seeing as my welder thinks that he's going to be repairing the existing bracket, it sounds like I should make him aware of this new information.
Seeing as my welder thinks that he's going to be repairing the existing bracket, it sounds like I should make him aware of this new information.
Administrator
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 42,475
From: Poteau, Ok
I would let your welder decide the best way to repair it. It doesn't matter what anyone says who has not seen it in person. Not to cause an argument, but anyone who has not put an eyeball on the job at hand has no clue to what exactly needs to be done.
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Posts: 2,092
From: Daly City, California
Thread Starter
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Posts: 180
From: East Oakland, Ca.
Thread Starter
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Posts: 180
From: East Oakland, Ca.
While asking people for their opinion...
I'd much rather hear multiple ideas than few or none.
Ultimately, it's up to the person I've trusted to do the job.
If he has any questions, I can always ask him to read this thread.
That's why I appreciate all the feedback here.
CO really came through on this thread for me.
I'm well thankful
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 15,394
From: Phoenix, AZ
I think those prices are high. Here's a couple examples:
www.rockauto.com
Upper Ball Joint
MOOG Part # K5108
$18.05
Lower Ball Joint
MOOG Part # K5103
$20.79
Those items alone are $36 cheaper than what's on your list.
www.rockauto.com
Upper Ball Joint
MOOG Part # K5108
$18.05
Lower Ball Joint
MOOG Part # K5103
$20.79
Those items alone are $36 cheaper than what's on your list.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 180
From: East Oakland, Ca.
I think those prices are high. Here's a couple examples:
www.rockauto.com
Upper Ball Joint
MOOG Part # K5108
$18.05
Lower Ball Joint
MOOG Part # K5103
$20.79
Those items alone are $36 cheaper than what's on your list.
www.rockauto.com
Upper Ball Joint
MOOG Part # K5108
$18.05
Lower Ball Joint
MOOG Part # K5103
$20.79
Those items alone are $36 cheaper than what's on your list.
I used OPGI for the convenience of ordering everything from one place at one time. I had one of my mechanics and the insurance appraiser here all at the same time and it was getting very complicated. When I asked, "what do you think?" I meant the quality of the parts and if I had missed anything...
By the way almost everything I ordered as far as suspension bushings is made by Moog. I'm thinking that I got some really good parts. Yes, I could've saved some money but I didn't have the time to shop around and I didn't have the time to order from multiple places... Unfortunately.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 15,394
From: Phoenix, AZ
The ball joint numbers showed up as made by Pro Forged. I have never heard of that company nor have I heard of anyone using them, so no idea as to the quality.
Well, you coulda done that at your local auto parts store. ANY auto parts store, for that matter. There's no need to use a resto house for this kind of stuff. And it's a lot easier to do warranty returns, exchanges, and such locally.
Last edited by Fun71; Jul 17, 2014 at 06:10 PM.
Thread Starter
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Posts: 180
From: East Oakland, Ca.
Well, you shoulda said "what do you think of the quality" and not left it open ended.
The ball joint numbers showed up as made by Pro Forged. I have never heard of that company nor have I heard of anyone using them, so no idea as to the quality.
Well, you coulda done that at your local auto parts store. ANY auto parts store, for that matter. There's no need to use a resto house for this kind of stuff. And it's a lot easier to do warranty returns, exchanges, and such locally.
The ball joint numbers showed up as made by Pro Forged. I have never heard of that company nor have I heard of anyone using them, so no idea as to the quality.
Well, you coulda done that at your local auto parts store. ANY auto parts store, for that matter. There's no need to use a resto house for this kind of stuff. And it's a lot easier to do warranty returns, exchanges, and such locally.
Maybe I'll return it all and find it cheaper like you suggested.
OPGI murdered me on this order.
It was $911 with shipping ....
Not cool
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 180
From: East Oakland, Ca.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 180
From: East Oakland, Ca.
Well, you shoulda said "what do you think of the quality" and not left it open ended.
The ball joint numbers showed up as made by Pro Forged. I have never heard of that company nor have I heard of anyone using them, so no idea as to the quality.
Well, you coulda done that at your local auto parts store. ANY auto parts store, for that matter. There's no need to use a resto house for this kind of stuff. And it's a lot easier to do warranty returns, exchanges, and such locally.
The ball joint numbers showed up as made by Pro Forged. I have never heard of that company nor have I heard of anyone using them, so no idea as to the quality.
Well, you coulda done that at your local auto parts store. ANY auto parts store, for that matter. There's no need to use a resto house for this kind of stuff. And it's a lot easier to do warranty returns, exchanges, and such locally.
Get serious
